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Any prove cables make a difference? - Page 4  

post #46 of 313
2/23/07 at 1:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jp11801 View Post
same pointless arguement could be made for amps and cd players as well
There's very little difference between amps and cd players of the same rating. However differences between different speakers and headphones are significant. People would do well to spend the bulk of their attention on those areas and room acoustics, rather than wires.

See ya
Steve

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post #47 of 313
2/23/07 at 1:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilS View Post
What about amps and CD players? Do they sound different or not? Any proof either way, that is, in terms of listening tests?
Someone here quoted a listening test where a well known "golden ear" couldn't identify different amps of the same rating. You could probably construct a search to dig it up if you're interested.

See ya
Steve
post #48 of 313
2/23/07 at 1:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
once again if you have two different CD players and listen to a good recording you can here distinct differences. For intance listing to the ankle bell in the Jimmy Lee Robinson recording from APO with one CD player (and everything else equal) the bell sounded more hollow compared to another player where it sounded flat and tinny.
Assuming that there was an audible difference, what degree of difference would you say that was compared to the difference between two different brands and models of speakers? 1:1000?

See ya
Steve
post #49 of 313
2/23/07 at 1:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
People would do well to spend the bulk of their attention on those areas and room acoustics, rather than wires.
Yes, but once finding a satisfactory set of speakers or headphones, people would start looking for the best synergy in the rest of the system of course.

Where I do think the least significant effect (sound-wise) caused by cables resides is in an AC power cord feeding a regulated DC power supply, in whatever component: DAC, source, amplifier, etc. etc. In spite of that, I've replaced the power cords in my receiver and dvd player with DIY derivatives of the Stereophile recommended "Halloween" Home Depot extension cords
post #50 of 313
2/23/07 at 3:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
There's very little difference between amps and cd players of the same rating. However differences between different speakers and headphones are significant. People would do well to spend the bulk of their attention on those areas and room acoustics, rather than wires.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "the same rating," but if cables make zero difference, and amps and cd players of the "same rating" make "very little difference," then we could put together multiple systems with different cables and different cd players and different amps and they would basically all sound the same --as long as we're using the same headphones -- right?
post #51 of 313
2/23/07 at 4:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
Assuming that there was an audible difference, what degree of difference would you say that was compared to the difference between two different brands and models of speakers? 1:1000?
I have heard two different CD players of good quality that sound as different as the AKG 701 and the Senn HD 650.
post #52 of 313
2/23/07 at 8:31am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markl View Post
For people just starting out in this hobby (as are most people on this site), it's not surprising that differences can't be heard.

Starting to hear real differences between headphones is equivalent to being a 1st grader learning how to add and subtract in mathematics. At that stage of auiophile/hearing/brain development and training, trying to hear cable differences is like jumping straight to trigonometry.

Or, if you like, it's like learning a new language. You start out with "see spot run" and you master that. But that doesn't make you qualified/prepared to turn around start reading Proust in the original French.

Of course it doesn't make any sense. Over time and experience, your ability to discern these things develops like a muscle.

You may just not be ready yet, Grasshopper.
You really sound strange here tried to give you my background but in case you didn't have it before here goes. I am a professional working in the music. I have my own home studio countless headphones, Grado RS1, Senn HD650, 600, zzz, AKG. Countless amps. Grace 902 plus others I have already upgraded my source, amp, headphones to the last degree, etc (and I mentioned some of the cables) I am actually looking if someone has concrete proof of the cable difference vs hearing test thats all very simple. Do you have it.
Guess you don't I am 37 years old with countless qualifications play piano (reasonable well haha) my kids, wife all play different instruments. Please please please I know what I'm on about. If you have some proof give it. If you don't go else where hehe. Let the flamming begin
post #53 of 313
2/23/07 at 8:34am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevieDvd View Post
YES.

Remove cables entirely - no sound
Add cables - sound

I like to interpret questions literally
Hi Steve Im reano from Avforums. Just trying to have a serious post here. This may not be the post for you
post #54 of 313
2/23/07 at 8:40am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
Consider the validity of an argument that has to resort to condescention... "Well, if you can't hear a difference, your ears are ignorant." ...to make a point.

If cables made a real difference, there wouldn't be an argument. There would be clear and convincing evidence. The only evidence I see in the arguments made in the defense of high end cables is that they seem to function as an ego boost of some sort. That's fine for some folks, but my self worth is invested in things other than stereo systems, cars and designer clothing.

See ya
Steve
Hallelujah. Steve spot on. Guys, guys and ladies. I'm not trying to ridicule anyone I too have made thousands of pound of investment in cables (most still in use) speakers, RCA, balanced, mini, digital, component, scart, etc because i need to connect things up. No problem. The reason I started my thread low key was I didn't want to spout on about I got Linn Lp12, Origin illustrious, Ortfon Rohnmann, EAR deluxe phono stage blah blah CD this, DVD that SACD, this as source etc because it is just like you want to brag I'm here to challenge. If you have evidence I will be the first to say thank you very much I will go buy that cable.

I'm just after some facts and figures thats all folks
post #55 of 313
2/23/07 at 8:42am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ View Post
The problem is that there are sonic differences below sound-transducer level, reaching to almost any sublety. Considering the variety of hearing thresholds, below a certain level there will be no unanimity.

The ego-boost argument doesn't convince me. In turn the above-mentioned makes a scenario rather likely where people with higher hearing thresholds get defensive and try to trivialize the audiophile hunt for «imagined sonic differences» (not to consider themselves and be considered tin ears).

I would like to get a «proof» for objective cable differences as well. Not in the form of measurements (there are measuring differences!), but in the form of statistical relevance gained from listening tests. I do hear differences in cables and have passed a blind test with headphone cables, but that's not proof for others.
.
Where was this done? I'm all ears really. Would like to know more, etc what cables and what experiment, etc.
post #56 of 313
2/23/07 at 8:46am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenAngel View Post
Why isn't that "proof". I agree completely. I can hear differences (quite substantial sometimes) in cables used. Is there really any other "proof" that can ever be provided. Skeptics ask for concrete evidence, but not the electrical measurement kind because of course there are resistance / capacitance differences between cables of different makeup. Not sure how else to really provide proof other than to say "Well, I can hear a difference and I think cable A sounds better than cable B and considering the price/improvement ratio it may or may not be worth the upgrade".

Simply put, to all the skeptics that blindly don't believe cables make a difference, buy a cable, listen to it, and if you don't think there is a difference, just return it. I'm thinking of offering one of my cables for free soon just to have it float around and see if people like it.
Hey this sounds good, how was this done? Who witnessed it and ensured you could spot the cable difference blind? What cable you used. Trust me I really want to know. I'm not bating you. Ta. I will gladly accept a blind test if other independent people witness it no problem whatsoever. Would like to know the cable make etc. Note I'm only talking about interconnects the actual wire not those with other things added like mains conditioners and the like.
post #57 of 313
2/23/07 at 8:51am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlhm5 View Post
I think the operative phrase from your question is "real proof". The answer is an unqualified no. None of the sonic superiority advertising claims can be proven.

Example: One of the finest amplifiers made today, Perreaux, does not come with a fancy power cord. If it made a difference, they would not willfully commit marketing suicide by knowingly degrading the performance of their amplifier by equipping the unit with an inadequate power cord so the customer could have a bad impression straight out of the box.

Secondly, most recordings made today use interconnects, cables and wiring that an audiophile would consider barely acceptable, if at all.

Let me also add that unlike the visual rememberences, sonic rememberences are, at best, fleeting and incomplete.

You can easily remember and construct every detail of the faces of the people in your life, however when it comes to your favorite song, the same memories just are not there.

One of the best responses I've read. remember guys I have all the great kit (look at my signature I'm already in the upgrade cyclone) but I'm looking for some real evidence can be blind tests, measurements, etc and I know that I can tell when something is better 'to me' and you can 'to you' the question is can you consistently tell the difference when a cable is removed/added? Bet you can with a better source, better amp, better speaks (I know I can). Please guys and ladies continue ....
post #58 of 313
2/23/07 at 8:57am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMarchingMule View Post
If the OP is talking about the differences in cable in terms of end SQ, a dummy-proof way is to have an ALO Bling Bling and ALO Jumbo Cryo.

It is very obvious how the BB "constricts" the sound, and esp. with metal (Tool), heavy passages on the track sound like a car wreck, but with the Jumbo Cryo, it's like having super-huge bandwidth; there is now enough room and then some for any instrument to be clearly and distinctly heard.

As for cables being upgraded last...I guess that works. But IMHO it also depends on what the cab;e will be used for. I had an iPod - BB - Hornet - K701, and guess which one was killing my system?

I'll give you one guess.

Mule I'm very interested in your response and I'm glad you are giving cable examples this more the type of response I'm looking for. I do like cables really OK have you done a blind test and heard the differences, etc if so I would be very interested in this and I have looked at the ALO cables love the construction, etc and would probably consider buying one for my ipod rig anymore info on this or other guy/gals with experience here?
post #59 of 313
2/23/07 at 9:03am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsaavedra View Post
That reasoning is flawed. The same would apply to the following: Can differences be perceived when playing two identical original CDs?
Remove CDs entirely - no sound
Play CDs - sound
Therefore: Differences between original CDs can be heard.

With respect to blind testing people need to be skeptic enough about those alleged tests. It is really very difficult to carry out blind tests properly, needless to say double blind tests, with sufficient rigurosity and sufficient samples so as to make the results truly statistically significant and valid.
Hi I understand what you are saying and thanks for your response but I am convinced that if I put my B&W 805s speakers vs my Kef Q1 speakers you would (in a blind test) hear the difference. The same for my linn lp12 vs my Project Xpression turntable. Same with my Grado RS1 vs my Senn HD600. Now what I am saying is if you put say a basic but good interconnect in a system listened then changed that for some exotic £1000+ one could you tell the difference in a blind test. If so I have no problem with that just let me know the cable and how you did it thats all. I work with a lot of artists, sound engineers, blah blah and to be honest the stuff people record on (cables) in most cases is nothing expensive. But I have no problem if cables do make a good discernable difference just let me know. Respond here ...
post #60 of 313
2/23/07 at 9:05am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeteeth View Post
This is my planned path to becoming a ghost whisperer.
Precisely correct. No one argues about cartridges or headphones and speakers.

To reply to the OP, there isn't enough difference for me. I just brought in a bit more than $1,000 selling various no longer in use "high-end" cables (to a variety of newbies?) and sent the money to Acoustic Sciences for a "real" difference.
Thankyou eyeteeth I like your response. Keep it up
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