Any prove cables make a difference? - Page 9  

Originally Posted by rsaavedra

You said you weren't really looking for serious/rigurous proof or research about perceived differences, you just were curious about anecdotical experiences for your own "reality check". Many such anecdotical experiences are documented in these forums already (as well as in many other places online, by many people). Your persistent asking is more of a lazy attitude rather than a true researcher mode of operation. Why do you keep goading (and yes, you are goading like a little kid) choosing to not look for what's already there? Do you seriously think people will want to repeat in this thread of yours what they already wrote in their own threads?

Originally Posted by FallenAngel

I'm not understanding something in this thread about proof.

Reano:
You want "proof" that 2 cables sound differently. There is measurable proof that copper cables have different resistance to silver cables. There is also measurable proof that different sizes and guages of cables have different capacitance.

Is this proof that it "sounds" different? If yes, then you have your proof. If no and this scientific measurement does not measure how a cable "sounds", then no other scientific measurement can "prove" that 2 cable "sound" different. I don't know of any device that measures what a cable "sounds" like. There are devices that test for how fast electricity travels, amount of current, things like that, but nothing to test how things "sound".

The exactly same thing can be said for 2 pairs of headphones or 2 amplifiers. Sure, we have current ratings and voltage swings, but are those actual measurements of "sound", NO! Of course not, so how can you prove that 2 amplifiers "sound" different? You can't in the traditional measurement way. Don't bother with the whole, well this one has a flat response from 10Hz - 30KHz and the other is 12Hz to 25Khz. You can take the almost any high-end and have VERY similar frequency response graphs.

So the main thing I'm trying to get at is a simple: Can you hear the difference between 2 pairs of headphones? Can you prove other than saying "Yes, I hear a difference"? This is the way I feel about different cables in my system. I can hear a difference, and in hearing, so I can say that my "hearing" is my measuring instrument that proves to me that they "sound" different.

Hope that clarifies how I feel about the subject, and I do believe that everybody should be using this method. How something "sounds" can only be proven using the appropriate method of "hearing", why not try it? If your "hearing" test proves one way or another, you'll have all the proof you need.

Originally Posted by PhilS

reano, let me see if I can clarify. I am not trying to argue with you or offend you, but we seem to be two ships passing in the night. I offer the following:

1. As an initial matter, let's assume we are not talking about cables that measure differently to the extent that most would say the differences in the measured parameters should be audible.

2. I do not have proof (and I don't know of any proof) that cables sound different if by "proof" you mean scientific or other evidence that is of a nature and quantity such that all reasonably objective people would be or should be convinced of the fact beyond a reasonable doubt (let's assume that is the standard for discussion purposes).

3. There is "evidence" that cables sound different. Such evidence includes the reports of many who have listened to cables and report hearing differences. This may not be persuasive evidence to you or others, and it may not be evidence to establish beyond a reasonable doubt the existence of the fact (i.e., "proof"), but it is evidence.

4. I have evidence that cables sound different in my system. It is based on what I have heard. Is this "proof" to me? Yes, it is, to the extent that I am convinced of the fact and am willing to incur the cost of the cable for the amount of improvement I hear. In other words, the fact is established for me with sufficient proof for me to incur a cost or take an action. Is what I consider "proof" to me sufficient proof for bigshot, mihm5, etc.? No. Is this "proof" of a nature and quantity that all reasonably objective people would be convinced of the fact? No. Will it be proof to you? I don't see how it could be, since what you hear in your system might be entirely different.

5. The fact that there is not proof beyond a reasonable doubt such that all reasonably objective people would be or should be convinced of the fact is something that I suspect you are fully aware of. Therefore, asking the question "is there proof," seems to be designed to start an argument. But perhaps we have not been fair to you and need to give you the benefit of the doubt. Therefore, the answer to the question, again, IMO is that there is no proof such that all reasonably objective people would be or should be convinced of the fact beyond a reasonable doubt.

6. The fact that there is currently no "proof" does not mean that the differences do not exist, as you know. Nor does it mean that there might eventually be proof. But if you are looking for proof at this time -- as I have defined it -- I don't think it exists.

Hope this helps clarify my points and advances the discussion.

Originally Posted by Kees

Just wondering:
What would proof bring you? You still won't hear the difference.
Why do you think people would want to convince you or persuade you (with what you call proof) to believe there is a difference to be heard? Especially when you start out by saying you can't hear it anyway, that seems like a lot of wasted effort....

Originally Posted by eyeteeth

I was being devilish when I did that and to put the fellas world back on it's former axis I played the Mercury Living Speakers Corner reissue of Janos Starker Bach: 6 Cello Suites. He was a nice guy.

Originally Posted by FallenAngel

I'm sorry to see this thread go to such idiocy and without jumping to conclusions, post #129 throws me off (I hope not to see tons of For-Sale threads by you because that would just be asking for suspicion).

Seriously though, this should be a very simple to answer question.

AC signals (your "sound" waves) travel differently depending on the medium. Change the properties of the cable (or more precisely, cable pair - signal & ground), you change how the signal travels.

Originally Posted by rsaavedra

I may have something to say of benefit to some other members of the forum. Sorry for the bluntness, but who said I was writing in this particular thread just because I cared whether it would matter to you?

With respect to my alleged "making it up" of your request for anecdotical experiences related to perceiving differences in cables:



And I quote that even though you had asked for "proof" (see your first post), then you reworded your request as above. If you don't like your latter version of whatever your request is as a "request for anecdotical experience", then fair enough, I don't mind your not admitting or clarifying whatever your intentions are with this thread.