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And the creator of the infamous phrase "Sennheiser veil" is... - Page 3

post #31 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by 003 View Post
And I am perfectly sound with how you perceive the sound. I'm not here to tell you guys that you don't hear properly. Everything I said is IMO. (well actually )
And you're basing your perception of the Senns from other headphones which do have more detail. I'm sure you can EQ out the "veil" at the 8khz area: Sennheiser added a decay there because in concert hall accoustics, there's a -10 db drop there I base my perception of a headphone from music that I play myself and that I hear at concerts: the HD650 on my digital setup is the closest thing I've heard to what I hear at concerts (unmiked classical in particular). Obviously we all have our own preferences and perceptions....so lets just get along: I like Senns and Grados....I favor them over AKGs and Beyers. That's my tastes and preferences...I don't say that what's not my flavor will be too deficient for everyone.
post #32 of 46

Ahh the veil

I've had 580s forever, and heard 600s a few times, but never 650s. IMHO the 580s are fine headphones, although I prefer K-1000s and Stax to them. Which certainly isn't a fair comparison to a pair of 580s through a small headphone amp, which sound pretty damn good for an incredibly reasonable price!

I do agree, however, that they are veiled in most circumstances, and also agree that the veil is lifted if you crank them. Unfortunately that usually means I crank them too loud whenever I listen to rock/electronic on them.

I keep a pair at work with an altoids cmoy amp, and love blasting some tunes through them every once in a while, even though they aren't really in my main rotation. I also like using them for movies if I have to resort to headphones.

I also used to fall asleep with them on (at a more reasonable volume) late at night, usually choosing classical or jazz, or lighter rock. They are very nice for classical.

I'd also like to point out that they were an absolute revelation when they came out. Interestingly, what got me seriously considering a pair was my experience hearing an Orpheus system at a stereo show. Although the 580s don't sound like an Orpheus setup by any stretch, I had so much respect for the company that made the Orpheus, I decided to check out their other headphones and brought home some 580s.

(BTW, at least in my opinion, the Orpheus system doesn't have the Sennheiser veil and in fact they are just awesome! I wish Sennheiser would come to their senses and start making them again)

I got many years of enjoyment out of the 580s through an Earmax Pro as my main cans (my Grado HP-2 pads disintegrated, and I couldn't find replacements until I discovered them at TTVJ, this it was Senn 580s for me). They are also extremely comfortable, and can sometimes sound cavernous on the right music, and, well although I have been known to have my complaints about them, they do a lot of things really well.

I should probably listen them a bit more after thinking that hard about them, but my taste is running to the K1Ks and Stax these days....

Also - props for digging up the references to the veil, it is a great term.

-- Gordie
post #33 of 46
I believe in the veil. But then again, I guess that's just their sound sig, eh?
post #34 of 46
Well I see this is going to resort to yet another Sennheiser veil thread, so I'm going to continue to plop this article in every veil thread!

http://www.regonaudio.com/Records%20and%20Reality.html

the reason Senns have less upper midrange...symphony halls:

Quote:
The graphs show considerable variety from hall to hall in bass and mid-bass response, with the halls that are regarded as desirable for orchestral performances having considerable bass to mid-bass warmth. A less desirable feature of many halls is a slight 250 Hz depression, apparently caused by absorption arising from the seating pattern. In the midrange above 250 Hz up to the 2-4 kHz region, most of the halls are essentially flat. But around 4000 Hz, and sometimes as low as 2000 Hz, virtually every hall begins a rapid roll-off at even quite close-up audience locations. By 8000 Hz, there is typically a 7 to 10 dB dropoff from midrange level. The graphs are not given beyond 8 kHz; but from theoretical considerations, the roll-off at higher frequencies would be expected to be even greater.
post #35 of 46
Sennheiser veil? No veil over here with the HE90,
post #36 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davesrose View Post
Well I see this is going to resort to yet another Sennheiser veil thread, so I'm going to continue to plop this article in every veil thread!

http://www.regonaudio.com/Records%20and%20Reality.html

the reason Senns have less upper midrange...symphony halls:
Honestly, I think that's kind of an excuse, one which doesn't need to be made, IMO. The HD650 is only 5db down at 20kHz. That's not particularly worse than other equivalent dynamic headphones, many of which can't even do that much, and significantly better than the concert halls you're talking about.

I mean... I suppose I can agree with the basic theory of what you're saying although I don't think they had concert halls in mind specifically when designing the headphone. Imagine you're sitting in front of a pair of loudspeakers. If you're sitting one foot away from them, the treble is going to be pretty loud. Now, imagine sitting on the other side of the room, (say, ten feet away or so) listening to the same speaker. The room and even the air itself will attenuate the treble. I believe this is what Sennheiser was going for.

Whatever they were aiming for, it sounds the most natural to me, by far, out of every headphone I've ever tried.
post #37 of 46
I listened off very high-end sources....and,.....

It really ain't that much of a veil, IMO

Also, these phones have bass, but compared to my Audio Technica DJ phones, they sound thin. Not bass heavy, IMO

They're actually fairly accurate, albeit a little too euphonic/colored to be called a reference monitor phone.

Seemed like they'd be great as a phone to listen to for enjoyment tho.
post #38 of 46
Umm... Did someone just vandalize the Wikipedia entry on Bose to "prove" that he coined the term "Sennheiser veil"?

(And NO, that wasn't me.)
post #39 of 46

Updates to wikipedia entry

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...action=history

At the top, three edits today:

(cur) (last) 08:24, 17 February 2007 PiccoloNamek (Talk | contribs) m
(cur) (last) 08:17, 17 February 2007 24.23.251.197 (Talk) (Fixed typos)
(cur) (last) 01:17, 17 February 2007 70.20.193.166 (Talk)

-- Gordie
post #40 of 46
As a long-time Wikipedia user, I do not tolerate vandalism of any kind.
post #41 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek View Post
As a long-time Wikipedia user, I do not tolerate vandalism of any kind.
Thanks for fixing it. I was pretty sure that the edit attributing "Sennheiser veil" to Bose was vandalism, but first wanted to check with you guys.
post #42 of 46
Apparently the same person vandalized the Bose article again soon after PiccoloNamek corrected it. At the moment, the article still has the "Sennheiser veil" reference.
post #43 of 46
Thanks for pointing that out. I just fixed it.

Let's see how long it takes for it to be vandalized again
post #44 of 46
I think that the "veil" is least prominent in the HD595's. Do we agree upon this?
post #45 of 46
I don't think so....those that bash Sennheisers like to say that the 595 has a veil too. I dunno, I hear more of a recess with the closed ATs and Beyers myself. But people are just going to say all Senns are veiled if they don't like em. If Head-fiers don't want to be cordial about headphones, then we can accept Senns are veiled, Grados are grating, AKGs are hollow, and ATs and Beyers are farty.
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