just a heads up

Creative Nomad Zen has new firmware out, allows Nomad MP3 players to send MP3s to each other via firewire cable. no need for a computer. something like sending apps between palm computers but on a bigger scale. Zens come with 20gb standard but can be upgraded to 60gb.

also the Zen can upload/download to any PC that has the Creative Playcenter software installed.


The iPod, in comparison, can only interface with one base computer, cannot be upgraded, cannot share files, and costs more than the Nomad Zen.

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Not true. It can only "officially" sync with one computer, but there are many, many utilities available for free that let you "interface" with as many computers as you want.

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Not true. It's not trivial, but it can be done.

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Well, OK, at this very moment it's not a standard feature... (NDA NDA NDA)

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I'll give you that

But seriously, what's with the anti-iPod thread? Do you work for CL or something?

is this firmware even legal? Won't creative get into trouble with the RIAA?

Upgrading a Ipod may be technically possible if you could get ahold of the Toshiba 1.8" drives, but considering thier price it wouldn't make any sense. also these 1.8" drives are still capped at 10gb i believe (the 20gb iPod uses 2).
the standard low-power notebook drives as used in the Zen (Fujitsu) are readily available up to 60gb.

were you hinting that iPod-to-iPod transfers are available by hacked firmware or something? I havn't heard of that, but I don't follow iPod news. that would be quite an achievement.

actually I admire the smaller dimensions of the iPod and its generous LCD screen. Also the contacts dB and breakout game are nice additions. but it seems straightforward that the Zen wins on sound quality, power output, price, capacity, & mp3 playback options (playlist, slow/speedplay tracks, make bookmarks). The remote adds an additional LCD readout, FM radio, and voice recording, things not available on iPod. However the Zen is 2 ounces heavier and could really benefit from a bigger screen.

Lol, I never thought transfers between players would ever happen.

Anyway, it IS virtually impossible to upgrade the iPod hard drive. It uses Toshiba 1.8" hard drives with a specially made/modified firmware that the iPod requires. Obtaining generic 1.8" drives isnt' too hard, but obtaining the special made-for-Apple ones that work in the iPod is impossible. The only way to get them is from another iPod, so that upgrading is pointless, though you may not think so when the hard drive fails after the warranty expires. The 20GB uses one 20GB hard drive, btw.

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I am curious about this myself. RIAA probably imagines a whole generation of kiddies swapping files on thier Zen. I can see them foaming at the mouth now, ready to unleash thier hoardes of lawyers. BTW, i havn't messed with this player-to-player transfers yet since i only have 1 zen, but i heard you can only send 1 song a time, so batch file trading will be time consuming for now

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It's an official Creative release:
http://www.nomadworld.com/downloads/firmware/

Regardless, I don't think hacking the firmware would be illegal, unless you were cracking a copy protection. In my opinion, adding a feature to a player (ie sending files from one to another) when there is no explicit copy protection is not illegal.

I'm sure the RIAA would disagree.

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Nope, it uses a single 20GB drive (and 60GB 1.8" drives are on the way).



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It does? I have yet to see someone compare uncompressed audio out of the headphone jack of these two units (which would be an actual test of sound quality).

MacDef
I understand that the 20 gig harddrives are indeed one hard drive, but are a "multi platter" setup, which accounts for the size difference between the 10 and 20 gig models. Do you believe we'll see a further size difference if they introduce a 60 gig version, or have they redesigned the hard drive?

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Right; I was just addressing the comment that the largest 1.8" drive was 10GB and the iPod uses two of them


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That's a good question; I haven't seen the new 60GB Toshiba drives in person, so I don't know how much bigger they are (if at all).

PodWorks, a $5.95 shareware routine, allows transfers to, from and between iPods. It accesses the iPods database directly and displays the entire list immediately, even on a fully stuffed 20 GB unit (3,838 songs in my case).

A few questions:

Does the Zen have a browse option similar to the iPods? For example, can one scroll by composer, artist, song, album and genre?

Are there any Mac owners present who have tried the Zen?

Does Audible support the Zen? If not, have they stated an intention to do so?

Is this thread one of those typical anti-Apple types whereby Chevy owners attempt to prove the Malibu's superiority over the Mercedes?

Actually, if you aren't grabbed by the matchless elegance, style and obvious quality of the iPod, I think you should pounce on the Zen with all four feet.

Just kidding, gents.

Spad

hmm, seems like i riled up the iPod owners just so it's clear i think the iPod is a most excellent MP3 player, intuitive firmware and elegant form. The Zen has alot going for it too. i've been comparing them for some time and each has strengths, and options the other doesn't. these are the top 2 that can fit in a pocket.

ok the iPod uses only 1 drive with 2 platters. I must have misinterpretted that information somewhere. that makes more sense, heh.

60gb 1.8" drives would be very impressive. especially if they upgraded the iPod with this, but I suspect the price would get even more crazy...

Spad mentioned PodWorks allows Zen - Zen transfers. cool, i was unaware. i thought this was a new function unique to the Zen. oh well, good news for me, old hat for you guys

"Does the Zen have a browse option similar to the iPods? For example, can one scroll by composer, artist, song, album and genre?"
sure it does, same. and you can add them to the current playlist, instead of playing Right Now.

"Does Audible support the Zen? If not, have they stated an intention to do so?"
Zen does not support audible. iPod also supports AIFF, Zen does not. Zen does support WMA, iPod does not. Personally, i find WMA more useful than audible or AIFF (never used either). I would like to see .ogg (opensource) and a lossless compression format supported on both players.

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I wouldn't worry much about that; AIFF is simply uncompressed audio, just like WAV (which the Zen does support).

You find WMA more useful than audible? Audible is audible.com's proprietary format for their various audio periodicals such as the NYT and WSJ, as well as their excellent and ever growing audiobook library. Unless I'm mistaken, you're comparing Apples to oranges (ahem). Audible is fully supported on the iPod. I'm a subscriber and love the service.

Incidentally, if the rumor mill is right, the iPod will soon support AAC, the MP4 standard. As you likely know, Macs support this now via Quicktime 6 Pro.

PodWorks is an iPod-only routine, so I assume you made a little typo when you said it supports Zen - Zen transfers. And, BTW, PodWorks handles batch transfers easily. One can transfer the entire 20 GB contents of one iPod to another in a matter of minutes. It also supports drag and drop directly to and from the finder or multiple iPods. This is the kind of elegance that Apple fans have always been willing to pay a premium for.

I'm glad to learn that the Zen has browse features similar to the iPod. But, I read somewhere that the Zen can only access its music via playlists. If true, I would consider this a very major shortcoming. The iPod can play any selection on the fly. For example, within a very few seconds one can find and select any song, an entire album or the complete works of any artist or composer--all without a playlist. In fact, I rarely use playlists at all.

It's true that the Zen only weighs two ounces more than the iPod. Of course, stated another way, this also represents a 26 percent increase in weight. Not so much, except when specifically dealing with miniaturized equipment as we are here.

It's also true that the Zen has both USB and Firewire ports. The iPod has only the latter, but why would anyone use USB when Firewire is available? For sometime now, all Macs--even the cheapest--have included Firewire. Just for the record, how many days would it take to transfer 20 GB over USB?

The Zen has a more elaborate remote than does the iPod. But then the iPod often doesn't need a remote at all. I carry mine in a case inside my shirt pocket. All controls can easily be operated through the fabric. The scroll wheel is touch sensitive like the trackpad of a laptop, and all other controls are push-to-operate. I have never bothered to unwrap my remote.

I'm sure the Zen is a fine machine and I look forward to checking it out. Is it true that it comes with a 90-day warranty? This was the case with the original iPod, but they now have one year. I purchased the first one the day they came out from CompUSA and was able to get a two-year replacement warranty for $29. I assume the same can be done with the Zen.

At any rate, Zen or iPod, isn't it terrific to be able to run around with about 400 albums in one's pocket?

Spad

The Zen can display/play music like the ipod can by artist, album, genre, or all tracks, in addition to playlists. And on top of that, it has a queue feature that the ipod doesn't.