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Limitations of HD-600 bass - Page 2

post #16 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
The problem is...people are so used to inaccurate billowy fake bass...that when they hear the real thing they think it's lacking somehow.
LOL, the irony here is that I just used the same argument in another thread where someone said the SR80 have deeper, tighter bass than the V6 (no way).

No, the above phenomenon isn't what I was doing -- the HD600 really are missing a little something here that the V6 have. As thomas said, the HD600 have some of the best bass of any headphone on the market, but it could be a bit better.
post #17 of 31
RGA,

I haven't heard your particular model Sony phones either, but, as Thomas stated, the V6/7506's don't blend together the bottom notes for that "BLAAH BLAHH BOOOOOOM-BLAAAHH BLAAAAH BOOOOOOM" you described. LOL!

Anyway, I own the HD-600's (two pairs) and I'd be very surprised if they were anything close to flat down to 16 Hz. I love my HD-600's, and think they have very good bass reproduction, but the extension just doesn't reach the depths that the V6/7506's reach. The V6/7506's are also some of my favorite phones, and though lacking the overall refinement of the HD-600's, the one thing they do like nothing else I've heard is reach deep. If you haven't given them a listen with music you're familiar with that has true deeeeep bass content, you'd probably be a bit surprised with some of the things you'd hear with them on that you had likely never heard before.

You mentioned that most people can't hear below 40 Hz, but I believe most people with healthy hearing can actually hear lower than 40 Hz, and even lower than 30 Hz (but maybe not much). If you play a test CD with frequency tones or sweeps, you'd be surprised what you can actually hear on the low side.
post #18 of 31
Quote:
If you play a test CD with frequency tones or sweeps, you'd be surprised what you can actually hear on the low side. -- jude
This link was posted a little while back:
http://www.smr-home-theatre.org/Sub-...How-Low-2.html

Also I'm a bit confused about the V6/7506 .. people are mentioning that they are the brightest phones, yet they are the deepest. So *overall*, are they on the warm or cold side?
post #19 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by kerykeion
Also I'm a bit confused about the V6/7506 .. people are mentioning that they are the brightest phones, yet they are the deepest. So *overall*, are they on the warm or cold side?
No doubt about their bass extension -- I still have yet to hear headphones reach lower, but then again I can't say I've heard all the headphones out there.

If you were to ask me, I'd say the V6/7506's are quite neutral. Some say they're bright-sounding. I think a lot of that has to do with what one is driving them with and who's listening to them. Properly amplified, the V6/7506's take on a smoother character (but not enough to call them smooth-sounding overall) than when powered by a portable CD player's built-in headphone jack. Their reputation is that of a headphone that doesn't need an amp (which is true), but they are like many other good headphones that do benefit significantly from a good source and amp. Good source and amplification make them sound far better than their price would indicate (to my ears).

While some would argue whether or not they're bright, few (if any) who've heard them would argue their ability to reproduce insanely low bass.
post #20 of 31
Quote:
...not too many people hear below 40Hz BTW.
It is true that below about 30 Hz sound is "felt" more than it is "heard," but it is discernable (down to about 20 Hz) by most people when reproduced properly.
post #21 of 31
I've got a friend who can hear CLEARLY down to 16 hz. And then the stuff that he uses to test his hearing bottoms out, so he can't tell if he can hear lower, but he thinks he probably can.
post #22 of 31
Quote:
...The Sony has more perceived bass because the bottom notes blend together in a mess of bass Kinda BLAAH BLAHH BOOOOOOM-BLAAAHH BLAAAAH BOOOOOOM.
RGA, that's EXACTLY the problem that I've experienced with MANY closed-back headphones - particularly those that have VERY LARGE earcups with too much empty air space. Most (though not all) of the truly circumaural Sony closed-back headphones, such as your MDR-CD750's, suffer from this problem. So do most of the closed-back headphones from most of the other brands (save for Beyerdynamic). The end result is TOO MANY RESONANCES! And too many resonances within the earcups often result in crappy bass and tinny ringing highs!
post #23 of 31
I would never call the V6 bright - abrasive is the word.
post #24 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by SumB
I would never call the V6 bright - abrasive is the word.
I don't find them abrasive at all. I'm not arguing, as I believe they are for you. I just wish to state that they're not at all abrasive to me.
post #25 of 31
Quote:
I bet your Senn HD600 do not have red/blue jaspis cable. This produces much deeper bass than stock cable
Uhh...how can a cable produce much deeper bass? A cable is only delivering the signal sent through it.
post #26 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by Beagle
...how can a cable produce much deeper bass?
All cables have a small but finite resistance. They also have similar capacitance and inductance characteristics. So they all fit into a LRC circuit, which fits into the bigger picture LRC circuit, effective. Going back to Electrical Engineering class, LRC circuits are effectively filters. Hence, the less resistance a cable has (smaller gauge, larger diameter, typically), the better it delivers bass. Some systems are less affected by cable differences for the same reason.
post #27 of 31
Whomever said that probably meant the jaspis cable does not somehow cut-off/distort the deep bass frequencies as much as the stock cable. AKA better transparency.
post #28 of 31
Wait a minute folks...I'm not saying there are not headphones that create better bass...and the Sonys I have are considerably cheaper and considerably older(10 Years).

Even the SR80 pushes out fairly solid(though it exagerates the mid bass)bass. Especially considering the money. However they do what Paradigm does IMO which is to exagerate both frequency extremes...producing both extremes well enough but horribbly thinning out the midband.

I don't doubt the Senns concern themselves with the midrange...that's where 90-95% of music resides...I would take that over the 5%-10% at the frequency extremes while compromising the mid-band. Hey, but that's why I bought them even over some more expensive models. Others may have other requirements.

One thing...I happen to love standmounts and electrostats...and so Bass is not as much of concern to me...though there is more bass in the hd600 than in all but a few standmounts and electrostats. The HD600 is the only headphone for sane money IMO that has the electrostat sound...indeed SOME electrostatic headphones are weaker...because they have even less bass again.

Up until the late 1970s the frequency range was considered to be 40Hz - 15Khz...which covered the vast majority of human hearing. While there are exceprtions...bass is often felt more than heard...headphones don't give that sense of *feeling* of bass from big ass speakers anyway - and the handfull of good Classical or Jazz recordings which extend below even 40Hz is not that common(techno or rap maybe...but the HD600s were not designed for that)...Sony sure did not convince me.

BTW I like my Sonys...for the money they are quite solid. A little hollow in the upper frequencies and fuzzy at the bottom end but overall reasonably accurate...I guess that's why they got 5 stars from What Hi-Fi...the only Sony that year I believe.

Thomas-
Quote:
I think if you audition cans very briefly or aren't too experienced with good audio equipment, you can be easily be misled into thinking loud midbass= good bass response (look at all those honda civic hatchbacks out there) , but i doubt too many experienced Headfi-zers would fall for that trick...
The car example is a bad one...but I disagree...the best of us get tricked on things when the senses are involved...DBTs on speakers confirm that people choose different speakers when they can't see which one is playing...looks, price, and pre-conceived notions of brand names, or reviewers effect buying. Paradigm models continually use this trick...which works well for H/T because you want boomy bass and earpiercing highs...listen to classical music and you'll be upgrading within the week. Yet many Audiophiles buy Paradigm??? Probably because Sound and Vision or Stereophile Raved...What-HiFi and Hi Fi Choice were so-so and UHF magazine is still waiting for Paradigm to build something that Paradigm is brave enough to send.

But, Then people swear by Paradigm...it may be that the speaker is offerring something they are looking for...the frequency extremes are appealing...even to me on occasion...but, frankly I prefer a speaker that delivers Music well over a speaker that can deliver a certain set of notes well.
post #29 of 31
Sorry.

RGA, if you like your Sonys despite what I said, that's fine with you. What I said in that post of mine was all relatively speaking. Most closed-back headphones have more internal sound-muddying resonances than most open-back ones. The Sennheiser HD-600's that you own are among the very best open-back dynamic (as opposed to electrostatic) headphones.
post #30 of 31
Quote:
Originally posted by RGA
...but, frankly I prefer a speaker that delivers Music well over a speaker that can deliver a certain set of notes well.
I think that's what we're all after, isn't it? It's just that our sonic preferences have us choosing different components, hence the absolute lack of any sort of homogeneity in our component choices. For example, a couple of our memberes have comparably priced super hi-fi rigs (read: très expensive), but they go about approaching sonic nirvana in remarkably different ways. One of them, for example, has Avantgarde Trios as his primary speakers, and the other has Wilson Audio MAXX speakers. Both are highly respected speakers, but likely as different sounding as they are different looking.

For example, I love everything about the sound of Martin-Logan CLS speakers -- except their bass reproduction, which is far too shy to my ears. Yet many people (understandably) buy them and use them alone. They wouldn't work for me, though, because of the thinness down low. Obviously, low frequency reproduction is important to me, but never at the expense of everything else.

Anyway, I love my HD-600's too, and I dig my MDR-7506's every bit as much.
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