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AKG K601 & K612 Pro Owners... UNITE!! - Page 82

post #1216 of 1757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraya View Post
 

Yes, bypassing the amp is probably what's happening, and would be the cleaner way to do things. This is the exact reason I made the other thread, to get people's thoughts on whether I should double amp in order to get the volume/punch I wanted, or use the line out and O2's high gain instead. 

Though I answered my own question in the end, and that raised the curiosity concerning the Vali. Without the additional gain, it can't make my 612s strong enough, no matter what speaker mode I use.

When you say 'strong enough' are you referring to volume?

post #1217 of 1757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraya View Post
 

Kman check your PMs

 

 

 

Are they the same ohms? I would have thought the amplifier plays a part in this.

 

The 612s have been proving harder to power than I initially thought. I tried them with a Schiit Vali and it strained to give them high volume and more importantly any punch. Where as the Objective 2 with it's +gain button manages to feed them the juice they require and put authority behind it. Having said that, I am aware that the Vali offers 4 gain as standard, in contrast to the O2's 2.5 and 6.5 (low/high respectively). Yet the difference between the Vali's 4 and the O2's 6.5 is very noticeable. I would think this is down to the ohms impedence on the O2 being lower than the Vali. Meanwhile the RMS at 600 ohms is apparently higher on the Vali than the O2. 

 

I don't understand then why it's more quite - other than the less gain.


No they are not and yes the amplifier or rather tubes in my case do play a role, I got the K712s to open up with different tubes.

 

I believe the problem lies with the amount of gain in the headphone rather than output impedance. I wish I knew the full specs of my EF2A such as output impedance, gain, etc. so I could compare them to the Vali because it can drive the K612 to ear-bleeding levels. All I know is that the amp has a lot of gain. And probably more voltage than the Vali because the EF2A has less current than the Vali.


Edited by kman1211 - 5/3/14 at 10:34am
post #1218 of 1757
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraken2109 View Post
 

When you say 'strong enough' are you referring to volume?

 

The volume felt strained and it had less grunt. With the Vali, I had to have it on full blast to achieve the same output. THe only way to get around this was to engage the headphone setup and use the DG's amplifier - of which required the Exciter(highest) setting. The problem there though was that it would induce distortion. 

 

Alternatively, with the lineout selected(two speaker) and the high gain on the O2, I don't need to go past half volume before it starts to become uncomfortably loud. It has more low end and a lot more punch.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kman1211 View Post
 


No they are not and yes the amplifier or rather tubes do play a role, I got the K712s to open up with different tubes.

 

I believe the problem lies with the amount of gain in the headphone rather than output impedance. I wish I knew the full specs of my EF2A such as output impedance, gain, etc. so I could compare them to the Vali because it can drive the K612 to ear-bleeding levels. All I know is that the amp has a lot of gain. And probably more voltage than the Vali because the EF2A has less current than the Vali.

 

Interesting.

Also, the O2 claims 0.54 ohms impedance. Is that accurate?


Edited by Saraya - 5/3/14 at 10:38am
post #1219 of 1757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraya View Post
 

 

The volume felt strained and it had less grunt. With the Vali, I had to have it on full blast to achieve the same output. THe only way to get around this was to engage the headphone setup and use the DG's amplifier - of which required the Exciter(highest) setting. The problem there though was that it would induce distortion. 

 

Alternatively, with the lineout selected(two speaker) and the high gain on the O2, I don't need to go past half volume before it starts to become uncomfortably loud. 

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting.

Also, the O2 claims 0.54 ohms impedance. Is that accurate?


I assume that is accurate about the output impedance. I wonder if the output on the DG without the amp enabled isn't all that strong. I used to have the Schiit Magni and I felt it did strain some with the K612, the volume pot had to be turned a good deal higher than the EF2A and even when at a similar volume it just wasn't as dynamic and physical sounding as the EF2A.

post #1220 of 1757
Quote:
Originally Posted by kman1211 View Post
 


I assume that is accurate about the output impedance. I wonder if the output on the DG without the amp enabled isn't all that strong. I used to have the Schiit Magni and I felt it did strain some with the K612, the volume pot had to be turned a good deal higher than the EF2A and even when at a similar volume it just wasn't as dynamic and physical sounding as the EF2A.

 

Exactly. And that's not to take away from the Vali or the Magni, but it seems like 600ohms cans might be asking a bit much, based on the default gain they produce.

post #1221 of 1757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraya View Post
 

 

Exactly. And that's not to take away from the Vali or the Magni, but it seems like 600ohms cans might be asking a bit much, based on the default gain they produce.


I'm not really sure, if it was a brand other than AKG I can see them driving 600 ohm headphones. AKGs are rather strange headphones in terms of amplification. They react weird to amps compared to other headphones.

post #1222 of 1757
Quote:
Originally Posted by kman1211 View Post
 


I'm not really sure, if it was a brand other than AKG I can see them driving 600 ohm headphones. AKGs are rather strange headphones in terms of amplification. They react weird to amps compared to other headphones.

Ok Ill accept that - considering I don't often hear complaints about the Beyer's, do you?

post #1223 of 1757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraya View Post
 

Ok Ill accept that - considering I don't often hear complaints about the Beyer's, do you?


Beyers tend to be a bit v-shaped in sound. What type of sound signature are you looking for?

post #1224 of 1757
Quote:
Originally Posted by kman1211 View Post
 


Beyers tend to be a bit v-shaped in sound. What type of sound signature are you looking for?

I was speaking to the power requirements. Beyer tend to have some with higher impedance? And yet not so much commentary about how hard they are to drive.

post #1225 of 1757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraya View Post
 

I was speaking to the power requirements. Beyer tend to have some with higher impedance? And yet not so much commentary about how hard they are to drive.


Oh, I found them less picky than AKGs and easier to drive on a variety of amps despite higher ohm ratings. They do tend to like tubes some reason though.

post #1226 of 1757

This is really interesting because I don't find my K612s to be hard to drive at all. The only time I've struggled was directly out of my J3, but at full volume I was happy with the level. Adding the Fiio E6 meant no issues. The Xonar DG in my PC at the medium gain level provided more than enough volume for me at only 50% volume in windows. An old Pioneer amp is more than loud enough at 2/10 on the volume wheel and my Denon normally does fine at -40dB (on a scale of -80 to +18). Even my phone (Nexus 5) can get them loud enough.

post #1227 of 1757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraya View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kman1211 View Post
 


I'm not really sure, if it was a brand other than AKG I can see them driving 600 ohm headphones. AKGs are rather strange headphones in terms of amplification. They react weird to amps compared to other headphones.

Ok Ill accept that - considering I don't often hear complaints about the Beyer's, do you?

 

The K601 and K501 are very strange beasts. They really take an unusually large amount of power to get them going, so don't be fooled by the lower impedance they have. I find beyerdynamics take a lot less wattage to run even though they are 600Ohms. 

 

 

Also, I don't hear a lot of complaints about driving beyers, but they do have plenty of other SQ related issues :p

post #1228 of 1757
Quote:
Originally Posted by kman1211 View Post
 


Oh, I found them less picky than AKGs and easier to drive on a variety of amps despite higher ohm ratings. They do tend to like tubes some reason though.

Hmm good to know.

post #1229 of 1757
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraken2109 View Post
 

This is really interesting because I don't find my K612s to be hard to drive at all. The only time I've struggled was directly out of my J3, but at full volume I was happy with the level. Adding the Fiio E6 meant no issues. The Xonar DG in my PC at the medium gain level provided more than enough volume for me at only 50% volume in windows. An old Pioneer amp is more than loud enough at 2/10 on the volume wheel and my Denon normally does fine at -40dB (on a scale of -80 to +18). Even my phone (Nexus 5) can get them loud enough.


I don't find them that hard to drive either, just picky as sin and vary more in loudness from amp to amp than many headphones. My K712 and K612 are all over the place in how they sound depending on the amp and tubes I use but I don't have problems getting them loud enough for my desired listening level except on portable players. Compare this to my HD 545(an HD 600 variant) and it's sound signature is quite stable no matter what it's hooked up to.


Edited by kman1211 - 5/3/14 at 1:36pm
post #1230 of 1757
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwappo99 View Post
 

 

The K601 and K501 are very strange beasts. They really take an unusually large amount of power to get them going, so don't be fooled by the lower impedance they have. I find beyerdynamics take a lot less wattage to run even though they are 600Ohms. 

 

 

Also, I don't hear a lot of complaints about driving beyers, but they do have plenty of other SQ related issues :p


I would say the same about the K701 family as well in that they are picky suckers just like the K601 and K501. They are easier to drive but still a pain to get going like the K601 family.

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