integrated amp in/out jumpers-replacing with ic's?

hi,

i am aware of the high quality jumpers available for integrated amps/receivers that have pre/main couplers.

i figured i'd try some high end 1 meter interconnects on several different amps.
the results were much poorer than the stock metal plugs.

was this because my ic's are too long for that application?

i am skeptical as to purchasing the jumpers after this experiment.

music_man

i realised something. this is one area where one is good advised to take advantage of the short signal path. it was mentioned that soldering the connections internally would render the best sound. i didn't want to do that. the jumpers included with all of these units are chrome over steel. bad for sq. however they only jump the positive side. that may actually be a good thing here.

so in short, this was what i found to render the best sound by far. went to home depot, got 1 foot of 12ga solid ofc building wire. cut two lengths 5/8 of one inch long. bent them in "u" shapes. stuck them in. perfect. i did borrow the audioquest python jumpers today. this is far better. there is really a hugely noticeble difference when playing with those couplers.

just make sure if you stick wire in there that you do not short the positive(inner) part of the rca to the shield by touching the wire. make sure the wire sticks out about 1/40" when fully inserted.

ic's seem to only seriously degrade performance on these couplers.
glad i figured that out.

i will just edit this instead of hijack my own post: the copper wire may provide better conductivity. it does not really make good contact though. i will look for copper bar. untill then i now think(hear) that the yamaha brand jumpers work better than ic's or wire regardless of length. the yamaha ones are better than the sony,marantz,rotel and others. they are just a solid bar of metal which i assume is chrome coat over iron.

notice that the new audioquest couplers are no longer the pythons. the new ones are not half the quality of the old ones. that might have been an issue also.

music_man

well i was hoping anyone had something to say about this. i tried all different ic's and none were as good as the stock hanger wire jumpers. on audiogon they swear by these better jumpers. what did i do wrong?

music_man

no. the audioquest replacement ones. they decided the tara labs missing link was even better. also on audio asylum. i do not remember the weblinks.

my experience was it completely ruined the sound(distortion) on several high end integrated amps.

i think those links might be supposed to only connect the positive(no shield).

sometimes people think any tweak is better and get in their head. i don't know what other people heard but on my amps it was terrible.

yamahas newer links(got some spares) are the best. they are solid metal without that plastic bar on the end. they sounded far superior on older yamaha,hk,marantz products.

maybe also because people used them on nad and cambridge. i used them only on japanese amps. maybe japanese wire it different there or something. i don't know.

they swore by the upgrade ones on nad,rotel,cambridge. my mileage was way different.

i will tell you what is the absolute best(just like solder). go to home depot and get 1 foot "ground" copper wire. bend it and stick it in there. i think the whole thing is that those should not use the shield. if you bend the wire just be carefull not to short it.

that makes a complete electrical connection without using the shield. i think yamahas bar is brass or iron. so copper is the only real upgrade i see here. it was much better than audioquest for me and cost $2.50usd.

eitook: do you have some experience to offer with this issue?

music_man

i am so glad when i am not crazy!
i was like "this cannot be possible it has to be better..." but it was not better, in fact it was bad.

thank you!

music_man

i just clicked on the sonic rock. you know what? it seems that the audio hobby is the only hobby that has an entire cottage industry of this kind.

beyond good components and "decent" cables i am personally done. i just pick up the music direct catalog and laugh. now they are selling "flitz" for twice the price of walgreens to "polish your ac cords, and make an improvement like never before" bah. whatever.
they are very lucky that there are the patrick82's out there.(i mean him no offense. whatever floats his boat).

music_man

eitook, how long are your interconnects on those jacks?

i noticed that replacing with any king of interconnect made the highs distorted and the bass boomy. overall a fatter sound. sort of what you described.

even though the manufactures of the cables state not, the links provide the shortest route to those jumpers. they are as conductive as the solder they would use inside.

even though a seperate amp and preamp would obviously have ic's between them this is one area where you should take advantage of the shorter signal path on the integrated. why else have everything in one box then?

the yamaha ones came off of one of their expensive receivers. the manager gave them to me because the people that ordered a home theater ordered seperate amps and used the yamaha only as a processor. that seemed like a waste to me but thats another topic.

the yamaha ones are different than any other ones i have seen. they are a loop of solid shiny hard metal. they do not have the plastic part on top like the others. they sound better than the plastic ones and any interconnects i think. they might be nickle over brass, i don't know.

fishcarver, you are too new to know i really never take a picture of anything.
(lazy,personal reasons). anyways it is nothing hard to imagine! i took basically a stiff 8 gauge wire and bent it to look just like one of those factory links(in a little "u"). it is copper. it sounds better than anything else i have tried.
the yamahas are close. the interconnects make a huge sound diference here and i for one do not like it at all.

just go to the electric isle at home-depot and get 1 foot of solid "ground wire" off the big roll. this is 8ga(i think, it was same size as rca plug so it worked) bare copper wire. again, make sure you do not short the outer part of the rca to the inner part! the wire must stick out about 1/20" when you insert it, do not stick it in all the way or you will be very sorry!

music_man

wodgy and jenkins and myself seem to be eaxctly right about this.
what you use back there makes a huge difference. this is not the usual cable voodoo. no matter what cable i used from $30 to $5,000 and from 3" to 1.5 meters made the sound absolutely rotten. each and every one, rotten!

intrestingly though i feel that going to my copper link creation made a tremendous quality enhancement on all 5 vintage integrated amps and receivers i tried them on.

that is if you agree that the following describes an improvement.
warmer,rounder,darker,smoother,increased imaging(soundstage).
this is all through the loudspeakers. i don't use these things for headphone amps.

one intresting thing is that the copper links must actually have more resistance than the yamaha nickle over brass ones. the volume went down about 3db(on spl meter at one meter) with volume knobs all in same location before swap. i would think that to mean they would sound worse but i like them way better.

i know many of us "believe" in all manner of voodoo regarding cable. this is not that. playing with these jumpers makes a night and day difference.
the copper links are the only thing that i found to make an improvement and a huge one at that. all else you can do here will degrade the sound hopelessly.

i now feel that a 25+ year old marantz(tol) receiver just became vastly better than my new krell integrated(and i really wanted a receiver with a good tuner so hooray). this was not simply because the old plugs were corroded. i used new ones to begin with. this thing just absolutely sings now. i honestly cannot even believe this.

how to make these: take 8ga bare copper ground rod wire and bend it into a "U". measure your old jumpers/couplers to make it and mark on the copper rod with a sharpie. never force anything into rca jacks! if it does not fit bend it more with your pliers. if you cut or tool this copper rod/wire wash it off before you use it. you should sand your finished product with 1500 grit paper to get rid of the tooling marks(wash it!). put shrink wrap at the top of the "u".

caveat,ymmv!

music_man

i discovered that the inside of a rca jack is about 8 gauge.

i have heard of people sticking wires as small as 24ga in there and making good contact.

is that true? a wire that small will make proper contact?

if so, a wire that small will have much better conductivity for this application than my 8ga ones,right?

music_man