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$100+ power cables worth it???? - Page 3

post #31 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glod View Post
AFAIK, the LoRad use a screen (foil) wrapped around the twisted conductors, and than a PVC jacket. Van den Hul Mainstream cables, and some other brands, use carbon in their constructions as screens and sometimes also as conductors.

I have mixed impressions of the LoRad 2,5. Mine has a Wattgate IEC, and it adds quite a bit brightness and sounds upfront in comparison to a $5 cable. The sound gets better definition though, and integrity. Especially the CDP is sensitive to it; the MPX3 much less.

Then your mpx3 has somewhat allready a good powerfilter internally...most cdp's benefit from good power. Most of em haven't as good powersections as a good amp has, wich has most of the time some kind of filtering in there.
post #32 of 207
Eyeteeth got it right,

I used the stock power cord that came with the Bada PH12 h/amp, I changed it for a homebrew and it turned a so-so performance (why did I waste my money buying this) into a very, very god h/amp. Why the hell don't manufacturers wake up and smell the coffee!

It changed my whole stance on cables - I was the classic skeptic. I don't have time for belief systems of any kind, it was an actual experience that turned me around.

I have since made new power cords using the very best mil. spec. wire - 20AWG stranded silver plated copper. The silver and the plating techniques used meet the highest spec. The copper is pure soft annealed - this is the way to go.

Needless to say the Bada sounds superb now. I also use it with I/Cs made from mil. spec. solid core silver plated wire.

For me this is the end of the road - I've arrived. I would love to put up this homebrew design against some of this Nordost Valhalla - some people might get cardiac arrest!

Markl is right, there are some who probably would rather die than admit that power cords make a difference, they do.

I say that the new battle Markl is to convince those who spend lots of money on commercial power cords - to make their own. Are you up for the challenge?

I'll send you a power cord to which you fix/solder your own connectors, because I live in Europe, where we use Shukos. It's a braided design, very simple - let me know.

Stuart
post #33 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourmaline View Post
The lorad cables have some kind of dampening inside the cable so there is no noise; perceived more gain! Don't they use some kind of carbon to do that?
not sure, all I know is I have a boat load of this stuff..

I like it..
post #34 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glod View Post
AFAIK, the LoRad use a screen (foil) wrapped around the twisted conductors, and than a PVC jacket. Van den Hul Mainstream cables, and some other brands, use carbon in their constructions as screens and sometimes also as conductors.

I have mixed impressions of the LoRad 2,5. Mine has a Wattgate IEC, and it adds quite a bit brightness and sounds upfront in comparison to a $5 cable. The sound gets better definition though, and integrity. Especially the CDP is sensitive to it; the MPX3 much less.
I have tried 6 different types of connectors on my Supra cable, soon I am going to try some Walker sst on the insides of the iec/plugs themselves.

The worest connectors I tried with these cables are Wattgate stuff, throws everything off sonicly to most different gear its on. right now I am using a Schurter 4781 iec with a marnico 5266 plug..best results so far on my power amps and my g08, but the b52 sounds...well not sure yet.

I will build some more cables after the new year using some hosp grade Marnico plugs, I also will be polishing the connector pins and was playing with the idea of plating..but thats far off. like I said I have somuch of this cable i can play with it till i am blue in the face. when i get bored with them or just need money for more toys I will sell some at my cost..this is why I dont want to get into any high priced iec/plugs now.
post #35 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Stuart View Post
Eyeteeth got it right,

I used the stock power cord that came with the Bada PH12 h/amp, I changed it for a homebrew and it turned a so-so performance (why did I waste my money buying this) into a very, very god h/amp. Why the hell don't manufacturers wake up and smell the coffee!

It changed my whole stance on cables - I was the classic skeptic. I don't have time for belief systems of any kind, it was an actual experience that turned me around.

I have since made new power cords using the very best mil. spec. wire - 20AWG stranded silver plated copper. The silver and the plating techniques used meet the highest spec. The copper is pure soft annealed - this is the way to go.

Needless to say the Bada sounds superb now. I also use it with I/Cs made from mil. spec. solid core silver plated wire.

For me this is the end of the road - I've arrived. I would love to put up this homebrew design against some of this Nordost Valhalla - some people might get cardiac arrest!

Markl is right, there are some who probably would rather die than admit that power cords make a difference, they do.

I say that the new battle Markl is to convince those who spend lots of money on commercial power cords - to make their own. Are you up for the challenge?

I'll send you a power cord to which you fix/solder your own connectors, because I live in Europe, where we use Shukos. It's a braided design, very simple - let me know.

Stuart
Stuart, the valhalla is very good, don't get mistaken, way better then most other cables available! at any price. Guess what Nordost is using: same stuff as you do: silverplated pure copper in a specific ratio.
Alot of people tried to coppy the nordost cables but never succeeded; they never sounded as good as the originals.

I might be interested in a test: i made my own high end cable with rhodium plugs. Wanna know if your millitary spec is as good as mine or even better.

I am always in for better sound...for the cheap.

I'll send you a pm about your cables.
post #36 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourmaline View Post
No wonder, vishnu isn't a valhalla Vishnu isn't worth the money.

Yes they do: when a high end system is being showed 10 out of 10 times they use the reference series of cables.period. Why, because it makes the system sound better. I've never seen/heard a system being showed without high end cables!

I only believe my ears and they tell me that one cable sounds considerable better then the other!
HIFI shops are commercial enterprises in the business of making a profit, of course they'll always have whopping wire on their gear....unless you have a friend who works in one and it's a slow mid-week afternoon.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpo...14&postcount=9

Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeteeth View Post
The last high end system I listened to was Vandersteen Quatro loudspeaker, Macintosh preamp + mono blocks and Esoteric UX-3 Universal (I like listening to lots of gear). My friend works in the store; to satisfy my curiousity he replaced the very expensive cabling (Valhalla) with the cheapest on hand (bulk Cardas $10 per foot) without telling me which was which (it was a slow mid-week afternoon) and the difference was entirely uncertain.
The beauty of having a friend in the business is you get an opinion that can be quite different from that offered to customers.
post #37 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeteeth View Post
HIFI shops are commercial enterprises in the business of making a profit, of course they'll always have whopping wire on their gear....unless you have a friend who works in one and it's a slow mid-week afternoon.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpo...14&postcount=9



The beauty of having a friend in the business is you get an opinion that can be quite different from that offered to customers.
Off course. But fact is that some cables sound much better then others. Don't forget that the high end systems are the window for the audio shop and they really wanna do make em sound best as it can!

I've done my share of listening... Loads of really high end systems. (amps going up to 50000 or more, cdplayers of 20000+)

By the way, valhalla's doesn't sound always good on any system! I recall a review where somebody rated the valhalla 5 out of 10 because he couldn't get it to sound right in his system! In his case the valkyrja's sounded much better!

Nordost cables don't compensate for flaws in the system, they are very, very neutral yet sounding natural and musical(reference series). So, not the best cable in every system. Once you have a balanced system, the nordost cables is the missing link.

TIP: do the swap again on your own well known system and i'll bet you'll hear even a bigger difference (either for the good or worse).
post #38 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourmaline View Post
LOL, without cables your system doesn't work! The better the cable, the more music you'll hear!
No, but that's the problem - power cables carry no music. Unless they're acting as a antennae for RFI, you cannot improve wall AC. Or 'tune' wall AC like you can (purportedly) do with interconnects.

IMO as long as the gauge is generous, the connectors secure and the shielding sufficient, anything else is just the placebo effect at work. I am undecided as to the use of filters, though I can see how adding one might help in theory.

I do not, however, believe that adding a filter can 'blunt' transients or make the sound less 'exciting' or 'remove some top end' - a filter can take away only what is not there. That and that the aforementioned descriptions seem more suited to a dissertation on DACs and amplification (when applicable) rather than the power supply, no?

Do note though that quite a bit of 'stock equipment' doesn't fit the previous 3 criteria!
post #39 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by adhoc View Post
No, but that's the problem - power cables carry no music. Unless they're acting as a antennae for RFI, you cannot improve wall AC. Or 'tune' wall AC like you can (purportedly) do with interconnects.

IMO as long as the gauge is generous, the connectors secure and the shielding sufficient, anything else is just the placebo effect at work.

Do note though that quite a bit of 'stock equipment' doesn't fit the previous 3 criteria!
Without power the component doesn't work and there will be no music. It's like trying to drive a car without any gas.


1) The gauge makes a huge difference. Thick cable makes music sound thick and slow, thin cable makes it sound thin, fast and detailed.
2) With more shielding the background gets blacker with more low-level resolution.
3) Connectors make it edgy and bright, hardwiring is the way to go.
4) With lower dielectric it sounds smoother with more transparency and bigger soundstage. Polished conductor surface does the same.
5) Deeper silver plating gives greater dynamics.

You can build a cheap cable for steps 1-3 above, but steps 4-5 are very hard to do, that's why I buy Valhalla.


A 60Hz sine wave isn't the most effective way to feed the power supply, you need to further manipulate it with MultiWaves (PS Audio). I have gone from 60Hz -> 90Hz -> MWave1 -> MWave4 and each step made the same difference as a power cord upgrade. I found that MWave4 + Valhalla + Toroidal transformer is a perfect match.

Without the smoothness from Valhalla it isn't possible to listen to my system, it's pretty obvious from my blind test.
post #40 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
1) The gauge makes a huge difference. Thick cable makes music sound thick and slow, thin cable makes it sound thin, fast and detailed.
2) With more shielding the background gets blacker with more low-level resolution.
3) Connectors make it edgy and bright, hardwiring is the way to go.
4) With lower dielectric it sounds smoother with more transparency and bigger soundstage. Polished conductor surface does the same.
5) Deeper silver plating gives greater dynamics.

You can build a cheap cable for steps 1-3 above, but steps 4-5 are very hard to do, that's why I buy Valhalla.


A 60Hz sine wave isn't the most effective way to feed the power supply, you need to further manipulate it with MultiWaves (PS Audio). I have gone from 60Hz -> 90Hz -> MWave1 -> MWave4 and each step made the same difference as a power cord upgrade. I found that MWave4 + Valhalla + Toroidal transformer is a perfect match.

Without the smoothness from Valhalla it isn't possible to listen to my system, it's pretty obvious from my blind test.
But how? Why?

I'm sure we're all curious to know. I mean, making nice, appealing-sounding parallels like those in 1) - 5) help no one and prove nothing.
post #41 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhd812 View Post
..."The worest connectors I tried with these cables are Wattgate stuff, throws everything off sonicly to most different gear its on."...
OK - Who knows, perhaps my impressions would have been different with other connectors.
post #42 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourmaline View Post
Then your mpx3 has somewhat allready a good powerfilter internally...most cdp's benefit from good power. Most of em haven't as good powersections as a good amp has, wich has most of the time some kind of filtering in there.
That is my conclusion too. I should add I use a filtered power strip as well (HMS Energia).
post #43 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by adhoc View Post
But how? Why?

I'm sure we're all curious to know. I mean, making nice, appealing-sounding parallels like those in 1) - 5) help no one and prove nothing.
Adhoc:

passive filters filter frequencies starting from 1khz and above and yes, these filters do filter away some of the extreem highs. When i put my amp in the filter, i loose that sparkling in the extreem highs the reference series are famous for...if i put it in, the upper sparkle is gone. I might need a better one an active powerfilter but these are much more expensive. The filter does more good then it does bad at the moment but it is sad i lost a bit of that amazing extreme high sparkle.

I did my own test, as i said before and while the cables gt more expensive and the materials also more expensive, the more detail and extension i could hear just from switching powercords.

I used the same setup and only changed the powercords of the amp...same results all over, did it couple of times to make it sure...my own made high end cable was better then the commercially bought silver plated powercable and the cheap pc plug is crap!

Especially when i removed the shielding the own made cable began to shine and sounded clear, sparkling with the most detail.

The better the power is distributed, the better and more efficient every component can work in an amp...hence improvement in sound.
post #44 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glod View Post
OK - Who knows, perhaps my impressions would have been different with other connectors.
Starnge indeed, alot of people like wattgate plugs. I myself use rhodium or gold plated high end grade furutech plugs!
post #45 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourmaline View Post
Hence people buy audio grade brakers or powerconditioners...It really takes up here...alot of people do replace their brakerboards with high end grade cables and brakers and they all notice improvements, without exception!
What are these "audio grade brakers"? I tried searching on google but didn't have much luck. So high quality wall sockets wouldn't matter when i'm using a power conditioner?
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