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post #16 of 28
JMPSMASH:

You need 10 times the power to get a perceived doubling of volume...all elese being equal. In other words a true 100Watt amp will be twice as loud as a 10Watt amp. Doubling the amps power gives a 3db increase...which is barely noticeable.

This is why you often hear people claim their 30 Watt tube amp can rattle walls just as well as some receiver at 100 Watts. The reason is that most of those 100Watt receiver claims are totally fictitious. Most rate their amps at peaks or at 1Khz only. My rule of thumb with receivers was simply take their number and divide by two.
post #17 of 28
Morphsci

Don't waste your money on power chords. Unless the Wave 8s are truly Aweful...then spending more is a waste. Certainly more than $100.00 is ridiculous for even professionnal use.

If you don't believe me then check out what Bryston Enigeers have to say...since they make some of the best amps in the world they should know a little.

BRYSTON:
A/C POWER CABLES
When you plug your power cord into the wall outlet you are in 'SERIES' with all the wire on the other side of the wall all the way back to the power source. The small length of power cord from the wall to the amp is insignificant compared to the miles of wire it is connected to. As long as the power cord can deliver the current and voltage required to drive the amplifier to full power it is as good as it can get.
post #18 of 28
Thread Starter 
Okay, okay...first off, thanks for all of the replies. And RGA, you were correct, I was still confused (and may still be ).

Let's see if I even remotely get this. I have Eosone bookshelves. 87db/1W/1m. That means with the AV-8, maxed out, would in theory produce 96db if I was 1m from the speakers...right? Now, considering my room is something like 10' x 14' and I sit about 8ft (~2.5m?) from my speakers....it would still be fairly loud, eh?
post #19 of 28
Quote:
Originally posted by Neruda
I always think it's funny how people want more and more power, when that power is usually giving them three or four more decibels of volume, which aren't being used anyway
Well, it's the overkill philosophy (championed by Carver of Sunfire, amongst others). The farther you get away from the limits of a system, the more linear it will be. So if you have really sensitive speakers, and a really high-powered amp, you should be able to get extremely accurate sound, even with tubes. :-)
post #20 of 28
I have been running the AV-8s for a few months now with Paradigm Phantom (the older bookshelf style) speakers. I believe they are 89-90db. They are plenty loud with a nice low end. I'm continually amazed at what 8 watts can pump out.
post #21 of 28
Quote:
Originally posted by RGA
Morphsci

Don't waste your money on power chords. Unless the Wave 8s are truly Aweful...then spending more is a waste. Certainly more than $100.00 is ridiculous for even professionnal use.

If you don't believe me then check out what Bryston Enigeers have to say...since they make some of the best amps in the world they should know a little.

BRYSTON:
A/C POWER CABLES
When you plug your power cord into the wall outlet you are in 'SERIES' with all the wire on the other side of the wall all the way back to the power source. The small length of power cord from the wall to the amp is insignificant compared to the miles of wire it is connected to. As long as the power cord can deliver the current and voltage required to drive the amplifier to full power it is as good as it can get.
Thanks I do not necessarily disagree with any of that. I am actually doing some DIY cords that will have larger conducters and better connectors as their main difference. The other difference is they will be shorter than the supplied cords so their will be less probability of them picking up external RF/EMI. As I said, I also am not convinced it will make a difference, that is why I am going the DIY route. The equipment itself is plugged into Line conditioners for surge and under/over voltage protection as well as keeping things isolated from each other. That does make a difference when the AC compressor and refrigerator kick on. My big living room system uses 40' interconnects between the preamp and power amps (Spousal acceptance factor induced necessity ) so I also use some parallel filters to reduce hum from withinline noise and well shielded, twisted pair ICS to reduce external noise induction (Also DIY, no way I would spend the money for 40' premade IC's). If it seems that there is any benefit on the waves I will probably start replacing some of the captive cords on my older equipment as well (but not with power cords that cost more than the equipment itself! I'm not that much of a tweaker )
post #22 of 28
For what it's worth, I offer the following:

I have a horribly inefficient set of speakers (Magnepan MMG's), with sensitivity in the low, low 80 db range. I run them with a solid state muscle amp that puts out well over 200 watts per channel.

I usually listen at about 80 db or so; sometimes 90 db but not often.

I have a pair of AV-8's and the people at the MUG Forum were pestering me to see how they would do with the MMG's. I hooked 'em up and they were easily capable of cranking the speakers up to my normal listening levels.

They sounded fine -- about as good as most $300 receivers hooked up to $500 speakers sound. But compared to the high-powered amp, they sounded awful. The dynamics, detail, soundstage depth, etc. were all missing. 8 watts just wasn't enough to let the nimble nature of the MMG's shine through.
post #23 of 28
well dustychalk, I'm not talking about audiophiles persay; I'm talking about the guys buying the cheap 15" subs for very small rooms and saying that it sounds great.
post #24 of 28
Mc Whak

If you like to listen at loud levels the Wave 8s are probably not your best bet with 87db sensitive speakers. Also, when you get further than 1 Meter then the db drops quite quickly...don't have the formulas...but it would be more than a 3db dropto the 2nd meter away...because the sound is dispursing over a wider area.

If you have really good speakers...then you simply have to live with Solid State...unless you go with an Antique Sound Labs AQ1003 at 30 Watts. Frankly, Tube Integrated sound better than separates...due to less wiring distance, less noise etc. The Drawback to integrateds is that they don't have bags of power.

The YBA Integre DT integrated at 50 Watts is as good Sonically as the most expensive Separates they carry. Mate it with Efficient and sensitive speakers...and separates are a waste IMO. With inefficient speakers then some integrateds can sound overworked(winded) and can make boxed speakers sound more boxy.

The Wave 8s are a class B tube amp...to get people into tubes...I've been thinking of getting them...but in Canada they go for around $350.00 With Cages etc...You can buy the MG 15 integrated for $599.00 Canadian and is rated at 15Watts per channel through Divergent. The integrated is class A and will be reviewed in UHF magazine's next issue...Keep an eye out for it.
post #25 of 28
Quote:
Originally posted by Neruda
Well Dusty Chalk, I'm not talking about audiophiles per se; I'm talking about the guys buying the cheap 15" subs for very small rooms and saying that it sounds great.
Or two Sunfire True Sub Jr.'s in a small room, == four 6" long throw drivers? Then you're talking about me. Not an audiophile, but I like my sound deep and tight and accurate. And it does sound great. (PS No offense taken, as I'm sure none was intended. )
post #26 of 28
dusty, you rock man
seriously though, did you buy both subs at once or did you have one and then decide to get the second one? either way, you've got good toys man.
post #27 of 28
Power corrupts, my friend. Power corrupts.
post #28 of 28
Quote:
Originally posted by ponzio
dusty, you rock man
seriously though, did you buy both subs at once or did you have one and then decide to get the second one? either way, you've got good toys man.
Aw, don't encourage me, man, it's a disease.

In answer to your question, though, both at once. And it's complete overkill. I have them matched with Spendor S3/5's, which have like _no_ bass response at all, so it was sort of a pseudo-3-way speaker, but I ended up setting them up for nearfield listening, so they're right next to each other. I need to trade them in for one signature version...if anything. I should probably just sell them. Right now they're just acting as the stands for my RKV (and therefore never turned on).
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