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K1000 vs. HE60/HE90 - Page 2

post #16 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by seacard View Post
I agree completely. The Panache did the K1000s some justice, but I imagine they will be incredible with the Aleph or F1. If I could never listen to speakers, I would probably buy the K1000s for that kind of presentation. Fortunately, I have no space restrictions or neighbors to annoy and can listen to my speakers when I want. I turn to my headphones for a different kind of sound that I think some other headphones do a bit better than the AKGs.
That is definitely a reasonable and fair approach. I sometimes think that my love of the K1000s are more out of circumstance than anything else, since my living situation absolutely prohibits me from having speakers, so the K1000s are as close as I'm going to get in the foreseeable future.
post #17 of 34
I think that the K1000 sounds better out of a cheap receiver than it did out my GS-1, which is a fine headphone amp.

If anyone knows of speakers that are $1K and can provide as much detail as the K1000, let me know. Also, the speakers have to self-isolating, so that my entire household won't be disturbed.
post #18 of 34
i've heard both, but at a meet so it wasn't optimal listening conditions for the k1000 (one of my big problems with it, you need absolute silence to be able to listen to the music). the k1000 seemed to lack bass for me, and i don't know if it was my headphone/amp combo or just because i wasn't in a very good setting for them, but they seemed kind of mediocre to me. at least i didn't hear anything special.

on the other hand, i heard HE90's through a Single Power ES1. perfection.
post #19 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by mckickflip View Post
i've heard both, but at a meet so it wasn't optimal listening conditions for the k1000 (one of my big problems with it, you need absolute silence to be able to listen to the music). the k1000 seemed to lack bass for me, and i don't know if it was my headphone/amp combo or just because i wasn't in a very good setting for them, but they seemed kind of mediocre to me. at least i didn't hear anything special.

on the other hand, i heard HE90's through a Single Power ES1. perfection.
I know that it has been said many times by K1000 fans, but unless you hear the K1000s with proper cabling (SAA Equinox hardwire for example) and through a truly synergistic amplifier (Nelson Pass' First Watt F1), you haven't really experienced what it can do, and how it might compare with other high-end headphones. I know that it is a pain to assemble all of these elements, but that it the nature of our quest - to find the very best headphone experience.

For me, the K1000 / SAA / First Watt F1 experience is the best. Traditional high-end headphones (i.e.: Stax Omega IIs) felt claustrophobic, the sound "compressed" and the soundstage severely limited. I guess I just can't stand having the music presentation originate from directly between my ears. But of course, that is just my opinion.
post #20 of 34
I personally don't listen to the K-1000 because they're some kind of "halfway house" between speakers and heaphones. I listen to them because they make music in a way that puts me closer to the performance than anything I have ever heard. I've got two separate speakers systems in my house, and the one downstairs are a pair of highly regarded ribbon planers. They're good, in my opinion, but they aren't as good at transporting me to the musical performance as the K-1000 through a class A amp.

That said, I think the K-1000 also shows off its merits through a decent and highly affordable used integrated amp like a NAD 3020, or even the little T digital amp that people have talked about here.

One other odd thing about the oddest and most musically revealing headphones in the world. I LOVE putting the K-1000 on the ears of a non-initiated, unsuspecting and non-audiophile music lover who has their own iPod as their source. The laughter the contraption evokes is matched by the grins and amazement once the K-1000 starts doing its thing. A good example is my high school age daughter, who listen to pop music and "emo and J rock" from only two sources in the house -- #!,her Altec Lansing iPod boom box, and #2, when she can get them, the K-1000s.

No other headphone I have ever owned, and no other speaker I have ever owned has evoked the kind of pure joy and sensual delight as the K-1000. Its the aural equivilent of eating in a great restaurant for the first time.
post #21 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmarshl View Post
I know that it has been said many times by K1000 fans, but unless you hear the K1000s with proper cabling (SAA Equinox hardwire for example) and through a truly synergistic amplifier (Nelson Pass' First Watt F1), you haven't really experienced what it can do, and how it might compare with other high-end headphones. I know that it is a pain to assemble all of these elements, but that it the nature of our quest - to find the very best headphone experience.

For me, the K1000 / SAA / First Watt F1 experience is the best. Traditional high-end headphones (i.e.: Stax Omega IIs) felt claustrophobic, the sound "compressed" and the soundstage severely limited. I guess I just can't stand having the music presentation originate from directly between my ears. But of course, that is just my opinion.
I think the reason the F1 synergizes perfectly is because it's a transconductance amp, which "bypasses" the K1000's filter circuitry... which is ironic, because that's not how AKG intended it to sound.

Have you measured how low your bass extends through your F1? How does it compare to your Sig 30?
post #22 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by mckickflip View Post
i've heard both, but at a meet so it wasn't optimal listening conditions for the k1000 (one of my big problems with it, you need absolute silence to be able to listen to the music). the k1000 seemed to lack bass for me, and i don't know if it was my headphone/amp combo or just because i wasn't in a very good setting for them, but they seemed kind of mediocre to me. at least i didn't hear anything special.

on the other hand, i heard HE90's through a Single Power ES1. perfection.
That was the loudest meet I've been to. Not a great place to judge the qualities of the K1000. I attempted to listen to them at the Boston meet and I really couldn't even get a feel for what they were remotely capable of.

Paired with my Pass Labs amp it has an incredible amount of bass. So much that I'm now using them toed out even more than I used to. But then again it depends to what sort of music you listen to. I listen to mostly rock, jazz and classical and the bass is plenty for all genres, and the midrange/high frequency extension is probably the best I've heard in my home. For hip hop or tracks that require extremely low bass extension (Sunn O))), Boris, Khanate, Earth, etc) I prefer the HD650.

And whats with the stars in First**** F1?
post #23 of 34
Because Firs"****t" is considered profanity by the filter I guess, even though it's the wrong spelling anyways.
post #24 of 34
At the last meet, I preferred the K-1000 to the HE-90. Both do different technical things right, but I just like the K-1000s nuetral, nothing added sound. It's a preference thing. You can't really say one is better at this level. You can sure say one is cheaper though

I may have a different opinion after the mini meet at Neils though.
post #25 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by robm321 View Post
I may have a different opinion after the mini meet at Neils though.
Ponders when that will actually happen....

Neil
post #26 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by neilvg View Post
Ponders when that will actually happen....

Neil
I don't think there are any worries there. Very busy month for me and I think most of the people going. In fact, I was hoping it would get delayed
post #27 of 34
Oh yeah definitely. I am also out of town at the moment and very busy this month. The most likely and probably best time to meet would either be late december (unlikely) or early Jan (likely).

Neil
post #28 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfire View Post
I think the reason the F1 synergizes perfectly is because it's a transconductance amp, which "bypasses" the K1000's filter circuitry... which is ironic, because that's not how AKG intended it to sound.

Have you measured how low your bass extends through your F1? How does it compare to your Sig 30?
I haven't done a formal measurement of the bass extension through my F1. For a while, I added a Velodyne subwoofer, but found that I didn't really need it. The K1000 / SAA Equinox / F1 really gave me all of the bass that I wanted, and it was very very clean! The F1 definitely has more bass response than the Signature 30, but I enjoy them both for different reasons: the F1 offers really really clean presence which makes you sit up and take notice, but the warm presentation and totally black background of the Signature 30 makes for effortless and pleasureable listening. I guess that it depends on what mood I am in ("serious" listening with the F1, or "relaxation" listening with the Signature 30).
post #29 of 34
I have both the K1000 and HE60. The K1000 stays in the box most of the time while the HE60 is charged up, ready to use almost all the time.

Like many people mentioned, the K1000 are sort of half way between headphones and speakers. If I want soundstage, I'll listen to my speaker setups. Yes, its more detailed than speakers but I find a speaker setup more involving. If you only had one source of music, the K1000 would be a great choice. If you have access to speakers and headphones, there's better choices in each catagory.

K1000 are used with a HA-1A and Flying Mole DAD M100. IMHO the M100 drives the K1000 very well. Clear, tight bass and neutral mids all presented very naturally. Haven't heard it on an F1 or Signature30 but have heard it with the original AKG K1000 amp.

The HE60 highlights the headphone sound. Dropping you right in the middle of the band and letting you hear detail as no other headphones or speakers can. Great bass on these phones, stronger and deeper than O2 and more involving than HE90. The HE60 are powered by a KGSS.
post #30 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmarshl View Post
I haven't done a formal measurement of the bass extension through my F1. For a while, I added a Velodyne subwoofer, but found that I didn't really need it. The K1000 / SAA Equinox / F1 really gave me all of the bass that I wanted, and it was very very clean! The F1 definitely has more bass response than the Signature 30, but I enjoy them both for different reasons: the F1 offers really really clean presence which makes you sit up and take notice, but the warm presentation and totally black background of the Signature 30 makes for effortless and pleasureable listening. I guess that it depends on what mood I am in ("serious" listening with the F1, or "relaxation" listening with the Signature 30).
Tom (*appears*) to indicate some preference for F1 over Sig 30 (*at least for critical listening*). I’ve had both amps in my rig for a few weeks, and my vote went to the Sig 30 – especially for intimacy and vocals. I can also tell you that using the Sig 30 – partnered with the right gear - K1000 are NOT AT ALL BRIGHT.

The latest edition to my rig is a top-notch silver IC from Hudson Audio (Audiopath 8-wire silver). My K1000s have never sounded better!

Now if I had a warmer source / preamp (like tubes), then I could see how the F1 might come out on top (for my tastes). But at least being driven directly from a factory upgraded Wadia 830, the Sig 30 has (IMO) a more seductive midrange than did the F1.
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