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Aggressive Classical - Page 2

post #16 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhw View Post
I think that's a rather odd thing to be annoyed by. I find it more annoying that someone would put a person down for trying to get into classical music. Or for having a musical preference.
I agree. Everybody has to start somewhere. I'm pretty sure that people who think it's annoying that classical "newbies" aren't immediately drawn to opera and the subtler forms of classical music wouldn't pull out Pierrot Lunaire, Wozzeck, or a Bach cantata disc if they had a friend who was curious about the genre. It makes sense that the kind of music mentioned in this thread would be the most immediately appealing. Over time, the rest will come.

While I fiercly defend the traditions and the sophistication of the world of classical music, it is very arrogant and dangerous to look down upon people who are just beginning to explore the genre. The classical music audience is already shrinking, and it's not being taught in the schools, so we can't afford to let snobbery turn away the few people that find their way to the music we love on their own. Orchestras can't survive without people in the seats, and the smorgasbord of classical recordings would dry up without customers to purchase them. It benefits us all to nurture people's interest.

-Jay
post #17 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayG View Post
I agree. Everybody has to start somewhere. I'm pretty sure that people who think it's annoying that classical "newbies" aren't immediately drawn to opera and the subtler forms of classical music wouldn't pull out Pierrot Lunaire, Wozzeck, or a Bach cantata disc if they had a friend who was curious about the genre. It makes sense that the kind of music mentioned in this thread would be the most immediately appealing. Over time, the rest will come.

While I fiercly defend the traditions and the sophistication of the world of classical music, it is very arrogant and dangerous to look down upon people who are just beginning to explore the genre. The classical music audience is already shrinking, and it's not being taught in the schools, so we can't afford to let snobbery turn away the few people that find their way to the music we love on their own. Orchestras can't survive without people in the seats, and the smorgasbord of classical recordings would dry up without customers to purchase them. It benefits us all to nurture people's interest.

-Jay
Under this mind set, unfortunately, comes the fact that the classical labels will cave to this audience by actually undermining the very art in composition.

The very conservative choices for recording by classical labels such as EMI are coming dangerously close to destroying the genre's potential and beauty. There aren't nearly enough conductors arranging more innovative or modern pieces, and we can thank the collective industry's attempts at drawing in a more "layman" crowd. Labels try to release pieces that a younger and more ignorant crowd would recognize through usage in film and television.

Must we really use this logic? Obviously, whatever these labels are doing isn't working. Why not get more sales out of the demographic it already possesses?

As for the whole "snobbery" thing, I just find it upsetting that people cannot branch out. Few people go out of their way to try new things, musically. This is what annoys me. It annoys me that a very credible art form, opera, is barely surviving, while commercialized genres such as hip-hop and pop, in which only a handful of truly different, unique, and innovative people are present, continue to enjoy high sales and influence. It's not about a particular individual by which I am annoyed, but rather an entire way of thought shared by the majority of the civilized world. The following:

Quote:
While I fiercly defend the traditions and the sophistication of the world of classical music, it is very arrogant and dangerous to look down upon people who are just beginning to explore the genre.
... is not what I mean. I am only concerned about those who explore the genre, but have very narrow musical tastes, and therefore can only dare experience the kind of music that they already know. There are plenty of people who enjoy all ends the musical spectrum, and don't require any "weening". If you necessitate this kind of thing, then you probably will never fully appreciate the music.

Don't get me wrong - I am all for curiosity and exploration - everybody needs to begin somewhere. It just is a little suspicious when somebody demands only a very specific kind of piece. The amount of Dream Theater fans, for example, that would never dare pick up Verdi's Requiem, because it's a classical piece containing vocal soloists and a choir, is appalling. After all, the mere technicality of the music found in Requiem is on par, if not greater than, any Dream Theater piece. This kind of superficial examination of music is what is leading to further genre separation and the death of the art in the music industry as a whole.
post #18 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aman View Post
Under this mind set, unfortunately, comes the fact that the classical labels will cave to this audience by actually undermining the very art in composition.

The very conservative choices for recording by classical labels such as EMI are coming dangerously close to destroying the genre's potential and beauty. There aren't nearly enough conductors arranging more innovative or modern pieces, and we can thank the collective industry's attempts at drawing in a more "layman" crowd. Labels try to release pieces that a younger and more ignorant crowd would recognize through usage in film and television.

Must we really use this logic? Obviously, whatever these labels are doing isn't working. Why not get more sales out of the demographic it already possesses?

As for the whole "snobbery" thing, I just find it upsetting that people cannot branch out. Few people go out of their way to try new things, musically. This is what annoys me. It annoys me that a very credible art form, opera, is barely surviving, while commercialized genres such as hip-hop and pop, in which only a handful of truly different, unique, and innovative people are present, continue to enjoy high sales and influence. It's not about a particular individual by which I am annoyed, but rather an entire way of thought shared by the majority of the civilized world. The following:



... is not what I mean. I am only concerned about those who explore the genre, but have very narrow musical tastes, and therefore can only dare experience the kind of music that they already know. There are plenty of people who enjoy all ends the musical spectrum, and don't require any "weening". If you necessitate this kind of thing, then you probably will never fully appreciate the music.

Don't get me wrong - I am all for curiosity and exploration - everybody needs to begin somewhere. It just is a little suspicious when somebody demands only a very specific kind of piece. The amount of Dream Theater fans, for example, that would never dare pick up Verdi's Requiem, because it's a classical piece containing vocal soloists and a choir, is appalling. After all, the mere technicality of the music found in Requiem is on par, if not greater than, any Dream Theater piece. This kind of superficial examination of music is what is leading to further genre separation and the death of the art in the music industry as a whole.
I understand your sentiment to a degree, but in a public thread created by an OP just getting into classical is probalby not the best place to commiserate ABOUT people like said OP. As to the genres such as opera barely surviving while crappy pop stars get radio play, I fully agree with you. Classical and jazz are probably the most musically developed genres left as a whole (obviously, there are exceptions in rock and other genres, but I mean in general), and yet are by far the most limited in terms of popular promotion, and that's a real shame. However, being outwardly and apparently irritated by this fact does not, unfortunately, garner much exploration from the pop listeners. If you're concerned that opera is a sinking ship, hinting that classical newbies are ignorant is less likely to buoy that ship than it is to sink the rest of classical music with it. That's all that we're saying.
post #19 of 28
For high-quality but also high-octane classical music, in eighteenth century try "Sturm-und-Drang" (Storm and Stress) symphonies and concertos by CPE Bach, Mozart (KV183, KV466, KV491, KV550) and Haydn (a whole lot, including ones nicknamed "Farewell" "Funeral" "Lamentation" "Maria Theresia" "Fire" "Le Chasse" "La Passione" "Mercury" "Mourning"). Overtures to most operas by these composers, in addition to those by the French composer Rameau, also match your criteria perfectly. For Haydn's group of very exciting symphonies, the collected recordings by The English Concert are recommended and come conveniently in one box.
http://www.amazon.com/Haydn-Sturm-Sy.../dp/B00004SA85

http://www.amazon.com/Casa-Diavolo-C...e=UTF8&s=music
http://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Overtur...098432-7628166
http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Overtur...e=UTF8&s=music
post #20 of 28
Back on topic, are we? Good!

I recommend Grieg's Piano Concerto - snappy, colourful, great tunes. There are lots of good versions out there, but you won't go wrong with the current version on Naxos:

post #21 of 28

hehehe

[QUOTE=Aman;2511030]Yep... annoying, I know. Opera is even in lower demand among the classical newbies.[/QUOTE

True.

Maybe I'm just a dork. I intoiduced myself to Opera though a 12 disc set of Verdi Operas, and an 8 disc set of Britten ones. So mucg for "The best of Opera" lol
post #22 of 28

Dang it

I messed up the quote thing while typing the word "true"

I thnk part of the reason "aggressive classical" is in demand is that classical music sometimes has a reputation as a lullaby withg class. That is, it can put you to sleep and make you feel good and boost your brain at the same time and all that. Tbis it can, I suppose, and I love the reflective aspect. Since newbies sometines have the impression that "calm" is all that's out there, they look for something "stronger" in the genre. You could make a case for both the "Soothing adaigo" and the "Symphonic Spectacular" aspect of the genre. Record labels sure do. It's really a matter of tasse.

But remember. The 1st movement of "Moonlight" is "calm" the 3rd is "Agressive"
post #23 of 28
The way I read the original post, you are looking for "catchy" symphonic music - stuff that's easy and fun to listen to, with interesting hooks a la pop music, but with more sophistication and "meat" than a "pops" program. I'm guessing that some of the (relatively) lighter Russian/Soviet stuff might fit the bill. Based on this I would recommend (for starters):

1. Prokofiev - Symphonies # 1, #4 (revised), 5, and 7, Alexander Nevsky Catata or film score (as reconstructed)
2. Shostakovich: Piano Concerto # 2, Symphony # 1, Age of Gold Suite, Symphonies 5, 7 and 11 later on
3. Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherazade
4. Tchaikovsky: Symphonies 4 through 6 (Tyson's recommendation of Mvransky is a great choice)
5. Khachaturian (sp?): Spartacus (a ballet score, no connection with the movie) or the Gayne Ballet Suite

P.S. Before you rule out Mahler, try Symphony # 1.
post #24 of 28
I like these for starter swatches:


Aaron Copland - Rodeo
Hoe- Down Baby!!!!!!!!!!

Straus - Thuder and Lightning Polka

Ravel - Bolero

Liszt - Hungarian Rhapsody #2

Tchaikovsky - Eugene Onegin

Bach - Toccata and Fuge

Tchaikovsky:
The Nutcracker -Chinese Dance
(short, but borders on rauckus)
The Nutcracker - Russian Dance
(same as above)

Mozart - Violin Concerto no.3 in G major, Rondeau: Allegro
post #25 of 28
Now for the politically incorrect list.



[Dramatic]


[Quirky]


[Spanish Flare]


[Memorable]



[For the Strange and Bizarre]


[Just Because]
post #26 of 28
I'm actually in the process of putting together a little "starter kit" for a co-worker of mine. It's not a question of dumbing down, just of finding music that is easily accessible, that doesn't have too many involved moments which the disinterested might describe as dull, and that shows off what one might arguably call the "best" of classical music, in terms of melody and colour.

Here are some of the discs I've got so far (& keep in mind that selection was limited by what was available - and cheap!):

Beethoven/Symphonies 3, 6 and 8; 3 famous piano sonatas
Chopin/Assorted piano pieces
Chopin/Waltzes
Dvorak/Symphony No. 8, Serenade for Strings
Grieg/Peer Gynt suites, Piano Concerto
Mendelssohn/Symphonies 4 & 5
Mozart/2 late piano concertos
Rachmaninov/Symphony No. 2
Rach/Piano Concerto No. 2, Paganini Rhapsody
Schubert/Symphonies 5 & 8
Smetana/Ma Vlast
Tchaikovsky/1st Piano Concerto, Romeo & Juliet, 1812
Tchaik/Serenade for Strings, violin concerto
Vivaldi/4 Seasons; Concertos on authentic instuments
Wagner/Overtures

Not yet found: decent & cheap copies of Mussorgsky/Pictures at an Exhibition, and Mahler/5th Symphony.



Note the complete absence of opera from this list!
post #27 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeresist View Post
Not yet found: decent & cheap copies of Mussorgsky/Pictures at an Exhibition, and Mahler/5th Symphony.
This Naxos version of Pictures of an Exhibition is good. Classicstoday gives it a rating of 10/10, but of course it depends what version you're going for.
post #28 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by technobarbie View Post
This Naxos version of Pictures of an Exhibition is good. Classicstoday gives it a rating of 10/10, but of course it depends what version you're going for.
Thanks - I have that in my collection, but I prefer the Ravel for orchestral colour and retaining (almost) all the sections from the pianoforte original. My favourite version is on the ultra-bargain label Prism Classics (played by the "Georgian SIMI Festival Orchestra"), but it's almost impossible to obtain.
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