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Skeptic converted about interconnects

post #1 of 19
11/21/06 at 4:49am
Thread Starter 
Well I had never given much weight to the various IC available. I lumped them all as snake oil after a certain modest price point. Well I decided to after doing some reading up to make a few different interconnects, one VenHaus design and one four wire Litz braid just to see if there are any differences. I do have to admit the VenHaus design sounds quite impressive, making a discernable difference in the detail. The Litz braid as well but to a lesser extent. While I wouldn't say these cables were cheap to make the are a worthy consideration if your handy with a iron.

Still not convinced enough yet to mess with the power cables but this experiment has moved me to the slightest possibility of it having impact.
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post #2 of 19
11/21/06 at 4:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael415 View Post
Still not convinced enough yet to mess with the power cables but this experiment has moved me to the slightest possibility of it having impact.
It will. Sorry about your wallet
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post #3 of 19
11/21/06 at 5:33pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lator View Post
It will. Sorry about your wallet
lol, well with the ic I can logically understand how it could make a difference, the powercord I am not so sure to be honest. I may just purchase one that I can return for a full refund if I decide its snake oil.
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post #4 of 19
11/22/06 at 7:04am
Welcome to truth. Soon there are no skeptics left.
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post #5 of 19
11/22/06 at 7:22am
I don't mean to poop anyone's party, but this and this have made the most convincing arguments I've heard so far.
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post #6 of 19
11/22/06 at 7:57am
even though i think cables are mostly snake oils, some high end cables use filters to alter the sound. i'm making own cables now instead of using canare, what an improvement on sound, so i'm glad i experience more with interconnect.

making cables actually cost a hell lot considering tools and parts you need to order, making an amp is worse. i think you actaully save money to buy a $200 van haus than to make your own, unless you need many cables. but if you do have money it can be fun activity.
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post #7 of 19
11/22/06 at 3:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triskozko View Post
I don't mean to poop anyone's party, but this and this have made the most convincing arguments I've heard so far.
Don't worry, you're not pooping anyone's party, as we have seen such "poop" before, and many of us don't accept it. I value -- to some extent -- what total strangers say I should or absolutely must hear, but in the end, I tend to trust my ears. And I am better off for it, having improved the sound of my system due to items that various segments of the population would tell you can't possibly made a difference.

P.S. I was once a died-in-the-wool skeptic and believed articles like that too.
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post #8 of 19
11/22/06 at 3:52pm
People usually believe articles which save you money instead of lose it...even if it isn't true. That's why there are skeptics, they want to save money and make themselves believe there isn't a difference so it gives a reason to spend the money on other things they want.
But they fail to realize that the cables was the best investment they could make. 10 years later they will play new games at 2 fps with their old $1000 Voodoo graphics card while the smart guy still listens to his cables. If you want to buy new technology then buy the cheapest ones and spend the rest on cables, it will give you more in the long run.
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post #9 of 19
11/22/06 at 4:15pm
Thread Starter 
Was not trying to get a heated debate going. I just merely posted my opinion of what I heard. Being a researcher I fully realize this was not following any protocol for testing and was not the intent of this post. I merely posted this because of my surprise. I went in assuming the null hypothesis would be accepted (aka no difference between the old ic and the new ic) but to my ears there is a notable difference.
I have read several articles like the ones mentioned but that is the difference between paper theory and real world application. Happens all the time at my work, in theory something should only do X, but in clinical application it does X and Z and sometimes Y. Introduce people and eviromental factors all sorts of things happen, lol. The only way I can think of really testing this offhand would be getting a source with 2 outputs using different cables connected to a single source switching back and forth with hundreds of subjects otherwise its subjective reviews vs. paper theory.
I have to disagree skeptics are skeptics to save money. IMHO experience its a wiser stance to take to be skeptical side of all the wild claims made today by companies as many can't deliver what they promise. It also would be foolish to put some 800 dollar cables on a super cheap stereo, if the sound isn't being decoded in the first place no cable can generate it.

As someone else mentioned trust your own ears. I personally think the truth is somewhere between the two extremes of cables make no difference and cables are the end all solution. The ic's to make are not that pricey and I found fun to build so why not actually try it before you close your mind to the idea.
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post #10 of 19
11/22/06 at 7:25pm
I love Patrick's posts. Really refreshing and well thoughout, I'm not being sarcastic. Entertaining to read, like The Onion for Head-fi.
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post #11 of 19
11/22/06 at 7:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
People usually believe articles which save you money instead of lose it...even if it isn't true. That's why there are skeptics, they want to save money and make themselves believe there isn't a difference so it gives a reason to spend the money on other things they want.
But they fail to realize that the cables was the best investment they could make. 10 years later they will play new games at 2 fps with their old $1000 Voodoo graphics card while the smart guy still listens to his cables. If you want to buy new technology then buy the cheapest ones and spend the rest on cables, it will give you more in the long run.
While i agree with you on a certain degree it is without saying that a good source also adds to the final results. The mix of good cables, and yes good cables make a alot of difference, will give you the music bliss you're looking for. While alot of people still think the cables are still icing on the cake, the fact is there's more to cables then the eye meets. The difference between good and splendid cables is as big as between sources or amps.
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post #12 of 19
11/23/06 at 3:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
People usually believe articles which save you money instead of lose it...even if it isn't true. That's why there are skeptics, they want to save money and make themselves believe there isn't a difference so it gives a reason to spend the money on other things they want.
I admit I would be more inclined to believe something that would save me money ^_^, but that's not really why skepticism exists.
It's because with subtle things, the placebo effect makes a real, proven difference in human perception. That's why with stuff like that I'd trust something that gives me a scientific explanation more than I would any personal observation.

And yes, you're right that it wouldn't be unwise to spend money on something that makes a difference, since it would last a lifetime; I just don't know that it makes a difference mainly because I haven't tried any yet. I would like to try some expensive cables, though, and then after I get used to the sound do an abx test or something.

Anyway, I'm sure this thing has been discussed a lot on these forums, just my 2 cents. Not trying to start a food fight, if anyone like their cables that's cool with me.
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post #13 of 19
11/23/06 at 12:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triskozko View Post
I admit I would be more inclined to believe something that would save me money ^_^, but that's not really why skepticism exists.
It's because with subtle things, the placebo effect makes a real, proven difference in human perception. That's why with stuff like that I'd trust something that gives me a scientific explanation more than I would any personal observation.

And yes, you're right that it wouldn't be unwise to spend money on something that makes a difference, since it would last a lifetime; I just don't know that it makes a difference mainly because I haven't tried any yet. I would like to try some expensive cables, though, and then after I get used to the sound do an abx test or something.

Anyway, I'm sure this thing has been discussed a lot on these forums, just my 2 cents. Not trying to start a food fight, if anyone like their cables that's cool with me.
I allways hear the same improvements in cables if i go back and forth, so it cannot be placebo.
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post #14 of 19
11/23/06 at 6:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourmaline View Post
I allways hear the same improvements in cables if i go back and forth, so it cannot be placebo.
Me too, I have many megabytes of logs on my computer. The differences were the same every time.
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post #15 of 19
11/23/06 at 6:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourmaline View Post
I allways hear the same improvements in cables if i go back and forth, so it cannot be placebo.
That's a logical fallacy if I've ever seen one...

So, just because you perceive the same differences between different cables, then it must not be placebo? Did you ever consider that you manufacture those perceptions based upon which cable you use?
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