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STAX Omega II vs. Ultrasone Edition 7 - Page 3

post #31 of 105
There are many high end heapdhones that are closed back, R-10, ATL3000, JVC woodie, etc....Also IMO and in my personal experience the open heapdhones regardless of sound quality, defeat one fo the purposes of using them, the intimacy, if I used heaphones one of the reasons is becasue I do not want to bother the persons that are around me, that probably do not enjoy the same kind of music, or music at all, all those open back heapdhones leak too much sound to the outside to the point of being bothersome for some wives...
post #32 of 105
Thread Starter 
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post #33 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by superman's ears
You describe sound signature, I meant tone signature.

Metaphor:
You own a Porsche Carrera and I own a Porsche Carrera. The sound of your Porsche is the same as the sound of mine.
Ah, but is the tone of your Porsche Carrera the same as the tone of his?

Drowning, yet waving, Dex
post #34 of 105
Well, I've nerver listened to an edition 7, but let me say the following words referring to this discussion:

Every recording of a classical concert or an opera is limited by its recording technique. So old recordings with the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra [VPO] (my favorit orchestra and perhaps the best orchestra worldwide) done in the 1950/60s by John Culshaw and Decca/London in the Sofiensaal, Vienna, offer a sound that I like most.

The VPO today offer another sound. They have changed some of their wind instruments. I've heard them sevaral times while sitting on an first category seat at the Musikvereinssaal, Vienna; Wiener Staatsoper, Vienna; Festspielhaus, Baden-Baden and Kölner Philharmonie, Cologne.
The live experience is truely more impressive than a recording. The sound of the VPO can really blow you away... there is NO headphone or other HiFi component that can do that. That's my opinion.

Here is what I think of recordings:
The VPO have a special sweet-bitter sound of their strings.
You can recognize it, if you hear them live.
But, and that is, why I often hate recordings, on some Deutsche Grammophon recordings, the strings sound very different, more like a mix of the strings of the Staatskapelle Dresden and Berliner Philharmoniker, which are, in deed, good orchestras, too.

The Culshaw recordings offer this special sound of the strings.

And that's why I love my HD600 and HD650 so much. Only these both headphones reproduce a sound that I would call erotic and offer to me the full rich bitter-sweet VPO-string sound.
Yeah! Erotic... that is the same feeling that flows through my body when I sit in a concert of the VPO. That is all I want!

Up to now only HD600/HD650 let sound a Culshaw recording like "reality".
I'm aware that Culshaw used many tricks and that the recorded sound is not "natural". But... having heard about thousand records of concerts and operas, live recordings and studio recordings, I could not tell you, what sounds "natural".

Maybe for that reason (compared with the HD600/650) the edition 7 would be a disappointment for me.

And now here is another point:
The VPO live sounds like the VPO, BUT(!) at the Musikvereinssaal in Vienna they sounded more like I like it, while at Baden-Baden their sound of the strings was a little bit too harsh.

But there are so many variables and not enough time/money to test them all.

Conclusion:
In some categories there is no "better", there is only a "different" sound. I really do not think that any headphone sounds better than the HD600/HD650 for my preferences.

The most recordings of the label Naxos I've heard so far offer a bad recording quality, bad orchestras and sometimes bad interpretations of the recorded opus. Hearing this crap with an Orpheus, edition 7, Grado GS 1000, HD650/600 wouldn't make good music out of it, even if you wait millions of years...

So if you got your favorite recordings it's all a matter of taste.
My taste says to me:
HD650 + Culshaw record of a piece played by the VPO = Great pleasure!

But why do I tell that? You all know it by yourself.

Sorry, if this text was a little bit confusing, but my excuse is:
I'm a freak...

Greetings from Germany
Frank
post #35 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Germane
Well, I've nerver listened to an edition 7, but let me say the following words referring to this discussion:

Every recording of a classical concert or an opera is limited by its recording technique. So old recordings with the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra [VPO] (my favorit orchestra and perhaps the best orchestra worldwide) done in the 1950/60s by John Culshaw and Decca/London in the Sofiensaal, Vienna, offer a sound that I like most.

The VPO today offer another sound. They have changed some of their wind instruments. I've heard them sevaral times while sitting on an first category seat at the Musikvereinssaal, Vienna; Wiener Staatsoper, Vienna; Festspielhaus, Baden-Baden and Kölner Philharmonie, Cologne.
The live experience is truely more impressive than a recording. The sound of the VPO can really blow you away... there is NO headphone or other HiFi component that can do that. That's my opinion.

Here is what I think of recordings:
The VPO have a special sweet-bitter sound of their strings.
You can recognize it, if you hear them live.
But, and that is, why I often hate recordings, on some Deutsche Grammophon recordings, the strings sound very different, more like a mix of the strings of the Staatskapelle Dresden and Berliner Philharmoniker, which are, in deed, good orchestras, too.

The Culshaw recordings offer this special sound of the strings.

And that's why I love my HD600 and HD650 so much. Only these both headphones reproduce a sound that I would call erotic and offer to me the full rich bitter-sweet VPO-string sound.
Yeah! Erotic... that is the same feeling that flows through my body when I sit in a concert of the VPO. That is all I want!

Up to now only HD600/HD650 let sound a Culshaw recording like "reality".
I'm aware that Culshaw used many tricks and that the recorded sound is not "natural". But... having heard about thousand records of concerts and operas, live recordings and studio recordings, I could not tell you, what sounds "natural".

Maybe for that reason (compared with the HD600/650) the edition 7 would be a disappointment for me.

And now here is another point:
The VPO live sounds like the VPO, BUT(!) at the Musikvereinssaal in Vienna they sounded more like I like it, while at Baden-Baden their sound of the strings was a little bit too harsh.

But there are so many variables and not enough time/money to test them all.

Conclusion:
In some categories there is no "better", there is only a "different" sound. I really do not think that any headphone sounds better than the HD600/HD650 for my preferences.

The most recordings of the label Naxos I've heard so far offer a bad recording quality, bad orchestras and sometimes bad interpretations of the recorded opus. Hearing this crap with an Orpheus, edition 7, Grado GS 1000, HD650/600 wouldn't make good music out of it, even if you wait millions of years...

So if you got your favorite recordings it's all a matter of taste.
My taste says to me:
HD650 + Culshaw record of a piece played by the VPO = Great pleasure!

But why do I tell that? You all know it by yourself.

Sorry, if this text was a little bit confusing, but my excuse is:
I'm a freak...

Greetings from Germany
Frank
Hi Frank:

I was introduced to the Ultrasone sound by a person who besides of being a musician with pretty good ear (a violinist) is also a lover of classical music and opera (for your piece of mind, he also agree with you that recordings of classical music are not even remotely close to any live event, but you have to make some abstractions regarding that, otherwise there is no way you can enjoy them) and he is also an owner of the HD600/650 and K701, please do not discard like that the Editions or the PROLines (or any other Ultrasone headphone) unless you hear them first. Please do yourself a favor and listen them carefully while you got a chance, that may be a real good opportunity of listening, "or recreating" to what you heard live...of course the opposite could be true, that you may not like them, but please listen them first...just a suggestion, OK?
post #36 of 105
And greetings to you, Frank the Freak!

What a lovely account you've written here, really taps into the soul of the matter.

So glad to read that you've found in the Senns that elusive, and, yes, erotic sound you were after...that's what this is all about!

If you ever do hear the USones with the Culshaw strings, please let us know how they fare from your delightfully specific frame of reference.

Best, Dex
post #37 of 105
Thread Starter 
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post #38 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by superman's ears
The TOPIC of this thread is "STAX Omega II vs. Ultrasone Edition 7". Your description is nice but has nothing to do with the TOPIC.
Well, certainly the TOPIC was begun as such, but it managed to evolve (with no small amount of input from yourself) to include the aspects that Frank was addressing in his nicely-phrased anecdote about what sonic qualities are important to him.

And isn't that why we're all here?

Obviously, super's ears, you are more than welcome to steer your thread back onto the original TOPIC, but can't that be accomplished in a somewhat more tolerant manner than you have demonstrated above?

Regards, Dex
post #39 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duggeh
With respect sir, how can you be so sure of the accurate tonal presentation of the original instruments unless you were there during the actual recording of that particular CD? By which I mean to say. How can you assert that the Ultrazone has the more truthful presentation of the original sound unless you actually heard that original sound in the first person?

I may be missing a point (and yes I condensed your quoted lines) but it seems to me that you are missing a crucial step in the rationale of your argument in favour of the sonic character of the Ultrazone headphone.
I find it very, very amusing that so many audiophiles place momumental importance of "neutrality" and "naturalness" when they are listening to a RECORDING.

Me? I like cans that can reproduce a RECORDING well because that's what I'm listening to.
post #40 of 105
I really appreciate superears' numerical comparison of the OII to the Edition 7. His use of so many performance criteria, to which he applies the relative numerical values (i.e., w/10 as the max), gives me a fairly clear sense of his perception of the performance of these headphones. I prefer this sort of numerical comparison, instead of the more commonly used subjective statements. Since I've heard the OII several times, and found it to be disappointing in comparison to the HE90 and R10, I'm now eager to hear some of the top-line Ultrasone electrostats. Although I thought that the HE90 and R10 were the "top of the hill", I'm no longer so sure. Thanks superears.
post #41 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeg
I'm now eager to hear some of the top-line Ultrasone electrostats.
Mike, just for clarification, all of the headphones that Ultrasone makes are dynamic.
post #42 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmcmanus
Mike, just for clarification, all of the headphones that Ultrasone makes are dynamic.
Pipe dreams are good, though...
post #43 of 105
Thread Starter 
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post #44 of 105
Thread Starter 
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post #45 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by superman's ears
Maybe I should rename to 'superears'.

The idea of a numerical comparison is not mine, you know that. Others have done this here before. It's a good way for a non-origin-english-speaking guy to make things clear without using many words. And, well, the word descriptions are much more difficult for me. But I will try that.

I will do also a comparison with Orpheus before christmas.

Michael , will you add Edition 9 in your comparsion list? as I have pre-order it but hopeless to compare with Orpheus by myself
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