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Letter to Little Dot -- LDII+ owners, PLEASE read - Page 2

post #16 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by vcoheda
I decided to write a more personal letter (see below). I'll keep the group updated.


Dear David:

I just learned that Little Dot plans to introduce a new headphone amp called the Little Dot II++. One of the differences between this amp and the Little Dot II+ appears to be the removal of the 4P1S power tubes, which are replaced with Sovtek 6C19s. I do not know what other improvements are made, but replacement of the power tubes seems to be a very good idea. I say this, because I am still experiencing some arcing in my LD II+, despite changing the power tubes with new ones. I do not know if the arcing is caused solely by the tubes or the design of the amp or both. And I do not know how the amp will operate in the long term. However, since it appears that the 4P1S power tubes are not reliable and that as long as I have the amp, I will experience occasional arcing (and possibly other issues due to this), I was wondering if I could exchange my LD II+ for a LD II++. I paid $139.00 USD for my amp. I do not know the price of the new one, but I would of course pay for any difference. I would also pay the shipping charges to send the amp back to you and would hope that in sending me the LD II++, you would do the same -- that is, absorb the return shipping charges.

Because I do not expect the power tube issue to go away, I hope that you will allow me to exchange the amp, which is only a few weeks old, so I can remain a happy and satisfied Little Dot customer.

Sincerely,

David S. Cohen
Do update us on any progress! I plan to follow suit, but then again im eventually gonna start using speakers more, so i might my old II+ for use as a preamp...

Hey dave are you going to the meet tomorrow? id like to check yours out, and maybe we can discuss any actions together?
post #17 of 220
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hYdrociTy
Do update us on any progress! I plan to follow suit, but then again im eventually gonna start using speakers more, so i might my old II+ for use as a preamp...

Hey dave are you going to the meet tomorrow? id like to check yours out, and maybe we can discuss any actions together?
No. I read about that meet, but won't be able to attend. That's unfortunate because I have never been to a meet before and it looks like there is going to be some incredible equipment there, stuff which I could only dream about owning. I'll look for impressions on the board and let you know what response I get from David at Little Dot.

Cheers
post #18 of 220
vcoheda, wouldnt your idea of exchanging the LD2+ for the LD2++ and pay only the price difference make them jack up the price on LD2++ for a while? If there IS such a release of "LD2++" then we should suggest the Little Dot manufacturer to honestly give a statement on what was changed from the LD2+ and what exactly were the issues regarding the original design.
If it's a simple matter of "poor quality tubes," then i suggest they send us those new ones instead.
post #19 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by penguindude
vcoheda, wouldnt your idea of exchanging the LD2+ for the LD2++ and pay only the price difference make them jack up the price on LD2++ for a while? If there IS such a release of "LD2++" then we should suggest the Little Dot manufacturer to honestly give a statement on what was changed from the LD2+ and what exactly were the issues regarding the original design.
If it's a simple matter of "poor quality tubes," then i suggest they send us those new ones instead.
The new tubes are more expensive, so I don't think it would be a fair trade in. The LDII+ works fine, but a batch of the tubes had arching issues.
post #20 of 220
If Little Dot had company stock, the line would be dropping crazy right now.
post #21 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by penguindude
If Little Dot had company stock, the line would be dropping crazy right now.
Correcting the problem with the power tubes is the right thing to do in the grand scheme of things, but their timing stinks real bad. Right now is the worst time to let info out about a new version of the amp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vcoheda
I decided to write a more personal letter (see below). I'll keep the group updated.


Dear David:

I just learned that Little Dot plans to introduce a new headphone amp called the Little Dot II++. One of the differences between this amp and the Little Dot II+ appears to be the removal of the 4P1S power tubes, which are replaced with Sovtek 6C19s. I do not know what other improvements are made, but replacement of the power tubes seems to be a very good idea. I say this, because I am still experiencing some arcing in my LD II+, despite changing the power tubes with new ones. I do not know if the arcing is caused solely by the tubes or the design of the amp or both. And I do not know how the amp will operate in the long term. However, since it appears that the 4P1S power tubes are not reliable and that as long as I have the amp, I will experience occasional arcing (and possibly other issues due to this), I was wondering if I could exchange my LD II+ for a LD II++. I paid $139.00 USD for my amp. I do not know the price of the new one, but I would of course pay for any difference. I would also pay the shipping charges to send the amp back to you and would hope that in sending me the LD II++, you would do the same -- that is, absorb the return shipping charges.

Because I do not expect the power tube issue to go away, I hope that you will allow me to exchange the amp, which is only a few weeks old, so I can remain a happy and satisfied Little Dot customer.

Sincerely,

David S. Cohen
This will probably yield much better results than the original letter, so here's to hoping it goes smoothly. Personally I probably would have chosen the original version, but that's just because sometimes I like to be a persnickety and confrontational bastard.
post #22 of 220
Thread Starter 
This letter has a more friendly tone. The first one was definitely more confrontational, much more fun to write too. I have not heard back yet. Hopefully I will get a positive response. I would gladly pay a little more to get the newer version with different power tubes. I really do think that the 4P1S tubes -- because they are unreliable and not readily available -- will be a permanent thorn in the side of all LDII+ owners.
post #23 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by vcoheda
This letter has a more friendly tone. The first one was definitely more confrontational, much more fun to write too. I have not heard back yet. Hopefully I will get a positive response. I would gladly pay a little more to get the newer version with different power tubes. I really do think that the 4P1S tubes -- because they are unreliable and not readily available -- will be a permanent thorn in the side of all LDII+ owners.
Yeah well you don't want to be too friendly, they still have an issue here. You don't want to be too confrontational yet not be too much of a pushover. I think you should have a 50-50 letter. IE. "I would expect to see some sort of credit"... etc. Nothing too defined, yet nothing too open, business like

Remember, they haven't actually said anything yet (unless you speak mandarin and can decipher the forign web sites) so don't go beyond your boundries or what you actually know and what is spectualtion.

You know?!


B
post #24 of 220

I feel like a guinea pig

I would support the first version of the letter as that is how i truly feel. I too have had problems with my 2+, and it is always the left power tube that has the blue flash. I ordered mine with an extra set of tubes and both set had the same problem. I contacted the seller who offered to send me a amp in exchange for the old one, but it would have been nice if the seller had mentioned the coming of the 2++, as I would have gladly paid the difference in price for the version using the new power tube.

My problem with the whole thing is that they might have found there was a problem with the 2+ design as far as the power tube is concerned and decided to redesign the circuit to use a different power tube. I am also starting to wonder if the change of power tube was not just to make it look as if it was the tube that was the problem with the 2+ and not the design in which the tube was used.

I also feel that if the 2++ were a new design we would see them promoting the superiority of the new design’s parts quality and improved sound over the existing 2+ on their website. I also suspect that it was not done because people who heard of the problems would not buy up the remaining stock of the 2+. and those of us who still had 2+'s that fall under the 30 day money back policy would demand our money back, or alternatively demand an upgrade for the difference in price plus the cost of return shipping.

Therefore, instead of saying that they found what the problem is with the 2+ and the problem will be fixed in later production amps, they opt to hide it and introduce the same amp with the problem fixed. Changing the power tube made it look as if it is a new design, as everybody with the earlier version of the 2+ would be sending back their amp for it to be fixed, since it is being introduced as a new design we cannot send them back for the fix. As the manufacturer, accepting returns on all the faulty amps out there would not be good for their bottom line.

My personal feeling is that the amp might just be the 2+ modified to use new power tubes to throw us off and save them the added expense of having to correct the problem on all the faulty 2+’s out there. So, 2+ might = 2+, + mod to replace existing tube with ones that actually works with the design introduced as new design, = rise in price – added expense of making it right for those of us with the faulty amps = laughing all the way to the bank for the manufacturer if this scheme works. Of course, this is my opinion on what has happened. 

jamdigga
.
post #25 of 220
Thread Starter 

100% in Agreement

jamdigga

I agree with everything you said and you expressed it very well. I think the LDII+ has a design flaw, they know this, and that is the real reason for the new amp. And the fact that they continue to sell the LDII+, with no mention of the LDII++, strikes me as being very dishonest. The first letter is closer to how I feel on this issue. However, I thought that the second letter (the friendlier one) would be more effective in getting me want I want -- an exchange for the new amp. We'll see. You should write your own letter to Little Dot expressing your displeasure about the amp and it's apparent defect. I would be curious to see what they have to say. Plus the more letters that are sent, the better.

So far, I have not gotten a response to mine.
post #26 of 220
They use the 4P1S tubes in the LD2, LD2+, as well as the LD3. If the problem was the tubes then why do we only hear reports of arcing on the LD2+ model?

And the pictures of the LD2++ show the power tubes having the same logo as the 4P1S tubes, why would they have the same logo unless they were the same brand?
post #27 of 220
I have mine for the past week and I don't have any arching. So does the arching problem develop as the amp get used more or is it a problem from the beginning?
post #28 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by F155mph
I have mine for the past week and I don't have any arching. So does the arching problem develop as the amp get used more or is it a problem from the beginning?
With my first set, one started arcing after I had had it for about two months. Even then it would only arc if I turned the amp off and back on again within about 10 minutes.
post #29 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by F155mph
I have mine for the past week and I don't have any arching. So does the arching problem develop as the amp get used more or is it a problem from the beginning?
The folks over at LD say that if you see no signs of arching within the first 100 hours of use, the tubes are fine. I suspect they had a batch of bad tubes.

This whole subject is making me uneasy. I just got an LD2+, and am having a replacement set sent due to a blown tube, along with an extra set so I could save on shipping for the future. Hopefully the tubes will be fine and last me until I decide to purchase a new amplifier.

I think the LD2++ is being made partially because they want it to be easier for people over here to get a hold of the tubes. The tubes in the LD2++ are more expensive than the 4P1S. We don't even know what's actually within it, so I think asking for a return is pushing it right now. The LD2++ may very well have a completely different setup, and just look the same on the exterior.
post #30 of 220
I have an LD2 that uses the 4P1S tubes and have not seen any arcing, ever. Makes me think that its something in the design of the amp, not just the tube. Back when the LD2 was all the rage, (ie before the LD2+) I never saw a post about arcing in the tubes. Some other issues, which were fixed by LD people, but never arcing. V3 and V4 of this amp seem to have been very reliable. I know that early versions of the LD2 and now the LD2+ have had their issues, but the way the LD people have stood by their customers is pretty great - for a $150 item.

I hope you get on well with your letter, but I wonder can your LD2+ be upgraded? If you had the capability, they might be willing to send you a kit, maybe with a new PCB and tubes that you would just need to solder up input/output/volume pot and transformer.

Fran
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