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Tube amps and gaming - Page 2

post #16 of 37
BF2 related-

http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showp...1&postcount=22

I've owned a X-Fi soundcard, a MicroDAC and still own a LMP w/'04 ref module. The only reason I sold the Micro DAC is that I'm looking to sell or trade-in my old amp for a pimped out Desktop.

My current setup: digital out from my computer -> Marantz A/V receiver -> headphones.

I would look at the regular Desktop with Desktop DAC. If you get the Desktop Hybrid you don't have the option of an onboard DAC.
post #17 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadByDawn
What would a tube amp do for the sound of gaming. In particular, what would the machine guns in Battlefield 2 sound like coming though a tube amp versus a solid state amp.

This is an amp i was considering:

http://www.headphone.com/products/he...hybrid-amp.php

Thanks

I use my X-CanV3 for callOfDuty everyday! Machine guns sound nice and throatie!

I also feel the X-CanV3 is a better bang for the buck than the millet(IMO).
post #18 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisco
I think that depends on your perspective.

If surround sound is coded into an FPS and you have a surround sound speaker set-up then you can recognise and respond to the direction that gunfire and explosions emanate from and in so doing kill those who do not have this advantage (every player will statistically benefit from such irrespective of ability).

So it depends what is more important to you;

Do you prefer deep resonating shotguns and realistic sounding hand grenades as they are going through you head and chest?

Or

Do you want the same edge as other gamers and prefer to not end up "dead" so often?

From a sound point of view I think I can enjoy my FPS's like never before when I "win" more often" and "die less often", but if being dead with great sounds is your thing? Hey ho....

Who knows maybe marines will give up the directional sound recognition of their ears and start wearing cans with a better amplified sound that improves the mid range?

Mmmm I can't see that happening though.....even if they would experience better quality in-head sound when they got poppped in the head

Forgive my humour….(I'm not really a jerk just messing about) I just think my priorities in FPS’s are a little different.
I don't know any Marines in the world with 5.1 ears.
post #19 of 37
That argumant just doesn't hold water, how can 2 speakers make a sound come from behind your head? They can't.
post #20 of 37
I was trying to be funny, maybe I should have put a smiley face.

Quote:
Originally Posted by regal
That argumant just doesn't hold water, how can 2 speakers make a sound come from behind your head? They can't.
Your right, unless it bounces off the wall behind you.
post #21 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by regal
That argumant just doesn't hold water, how can 2 speakers make a sound come from behind your head? They can't.
Actually it's the amp.. Several times I would look back when listening to music, cause I swore someone was behind me saying somthing..It's startling cause you know you are alone..
post #22 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisco
Aren't we talking OVERKILL!!!!! BIG TIME if you are talking about the difference between such amps for gaming purposes?

Picturing the conversation;

Ooh the timber is much more improved on machine guns and the lower bass frequencies from hand grenades far more like that heard in live performances

Kidding- I'm sure people are this discerning- just not me, not for games.
Again, ppl who look down upon amp/phone users who have the nerve to want a great audio experience in their games.. PPL gasp when I tell them half the time my Headphones/DAC/AMP wil be used for gaming.. I get the, whats wrong with you look..Like puting catchup on steak..
post #23 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisco
Aren't we talking OVERKILL!!!!! BIG TIME if you are talking about the difference between such amps for gaming purposes?

Picturing the conversation;

Ooh the timber is much more improved on machine guns and the lower bass frequencies from hand grenades far more like that heard in live performances
I hate live performances; you have to wear earplugs and they're usually in cramped dark rooms or some big outdoor event where it's hard to find a good restroom.
post #24 of 37
an x-fi with my old pair of a500 were good enough to here someone's footsteps behind you.I could tell if they were cruching on grass or thumping on concrete. Hell i could track the blackhawk anywhere in the sky using sound only. A have a 'hybrid' and i used it for kicks. It sounded more full using a mini to RCA, but it was complete overkill. At one point i was tracking people on other streets of karkand via and it was getting too distracting. I have no reason why i wanna hear sounds of a firefight across the map that will take me a million years to run/walk to in the game.
post #25 of 37
I have heard Tube amps will spread soundstange and imaging making them less accurate. Personally i think its a bunch of BS but even if it does i doubt it effects 3D audio positioning to any noticeable degree. As long as you have a decent pair of headphones 3D positioning is gonna be as accurate as the software(EAX, CMSS 3D, dolby headphone, Directsound 3D) will let it be. 5.1 will obviously be a tad bit more accurate (honestly not by much http://audio.rightmark.org/download.shtml ) but you'll be able to pick up more detail from your games with a headphone vs a 5.1 system with out having your neighbors calling the police on you. Being able to hear a the ultra faint sound of a pistol reloading off in the distance over the hum of near by machinery is why you use headphones if you want to be good =).

If your question was just wondering about sound quality then ya the majority of people think tubes are better than SS (and I just wasted some time).
post #26 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dook
I have heard Tube amps will spread soundstange and imaging making them less accurate. Personally i think its a bunch of BS but even if it does i doubt it effects 3D audio positioning to any noticeable degree. As long as you have a decent pair of headphones 3D positioning is gonna be as accurate as the software(EAX, CMSS 3D, dolby headphone, Directsound 3D) will let it be. 5.1 will obviously be a tad bit more accurate (honestly not by much http://audio.rightmark.org/download.shtml ).
Sorry but this is plain wrong.

Headphones are in effect two speakers with limited soundstage. Now you can have fake 3D surround sound efforts and you can try and add depth all you like but the fact is it isn't surround sound and th soundstage is less than that found in a good two speaker set-up never mind that of surround sound...huge difference. If I hear a shotgun go off via a surround sound set-up I instantly know where that gunfire has come from if it is coded well in the game. If I hear two shots I know where they have both come from and can act accordingly....etc

You simply cannot get anywhere near that level of sound location from headphones or two speaker set-up.

Being able to know exactly where the gunfire comes from gives you a huge advantage and is fantastic in gameplay terms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dook
you'll be able to pick up more detail from your games with a headphone vs a 5.1 system with out having your neighbors calling the police on you. Being able to hear a the ultra faint sound of a pistol reloading off in the distance over the hum of near by machinery is why you use headphones if you want to be good =).
As for your neighbours calling the police on you surround sound doesn't have to be that loud, neither do you need your bass/subwoofer set so it literally sounds like Iraq in your room. You just need it loud enough to hear what is required for you to be able to respond accordingly...so I don't take that seriously at all.

As for detail, detail is less important in an FPS than in music say. It is very important with music to be able to hear detail like fingers sliding down guitar strings or lips on a trumpet....but how important is it to hear detail in an M16 fire and recoil action or depth of explosion in a grenade?

Is it more important than recognising and being able to respond to the direction of fire, grenades etc? Seriously??

You see I don't think it is- not remotely.

One has an enormous effect on the gameplay and the statistical chances of winning the game and ending up dead less often and the other is just ear candy.

In terms of hearing a pistol being reloaded- why wouldn't you hear that? I think that is a bit daft to say that you wouldn't hear that because you would-it just wouldn't sound richly detailedD

If you like the sound in your games to be rich and detailed at the expense of gameplay and you don't mind being dead more often then go with the headphone and amp set-up. If you want the sound in your games to be more than just venere and actualy contribute to the gameplay experience then you go with a surround sound set-up.....at least if it is well coded in your game of choice....if you are into playing games that don't take advantage of surround sound then of course- go with the headphone/amp set-up in any case.

I am a massive fan of headphones having just got my mits on some very nice gear, but I am saying this stuff because I think it makes sense and am not just a fanboy of all things headphone....time and a place and all that....even then it is just an opinion and you don't have to agree with it...opinions are like ass holes everybody has one and this is mine:
post #27 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisco
Sorry but this is plain wrong.

Headphones are in effect two speakers with limited soundstage. Now you can have fake 3D surround sound efforts and you can try and add depth all you like but the fact is it isn't surround sound and th soundstage is less than that found in a good two speaker set-up never mind that of surround sound...huge difference. If I hear a shotgun go off via a surround sound set-up I instantly know where that gunfire has come from if it is coded well in the game. If I hear two shots I know where they have both come from and can act accordingly....etc

You simply cannot get anywhere near that level of sound location from headphones or two speaker set-up.

Being able to know exactly where the gunfire comes from gives you a huge advantage and is fantastic in gameplay terms.



As for your neighbours calling the police on you surround sound doesn't have to be that loud, neither do you need your bass/subwoofer set so it literally sounds like Iraq in your room. You just need it loud enough to hear what is required for you to be able to respond accordingly...so I don't take that seriously at all.

As for detail, detail is less important in an FPS than in music say. It is very important with music to be able to hear detail like fingers sliding down guitar strings or lips on a trumpet....but how important is it to hear detail in an M16 fire and recoil action or depth of explosion in a grenade?

Is it more important than recognising and being able to respond to the direction of fire, grenades etc? Seriously??

You see I don't think it is- not remotely.

One has an enormous effect on the gameplay and the statistical chances of winning the game and ending up dead less often and the other is just ear candy.

In terms of hearing a pistol being reloaded- why wouldn't you hear that? I think that is a bit daft to say that you wouldn't hear that because you would-it just wouldn't sound richly detailedD

If you like the sound in your games to be rich and detailed at the expense of gameplay and you don't mind being dead more often then go with the headphone and amp set-up. If you want the sound in your games to be more than just venere and actualy contribute to the gameplay experience then you go with a surround sound set-up.....at least if it is well coded in your game of choice....if you are into playing games that don't take advantage of surround sound then of course- go with the headphone/amp set-up in any case.

I am a massive fan of headphones having just got my mits on some very nice gear, but I am saying this stuff because I think it makes sense and am not just a fanboy of all things headphone....time and a place and all that....even then it is just an opinion and you don't have to agree with it...opinions are like ass holes everybody has one and this is mine:

Your right it is just simulated surround sound but if u clicked on that link you'll be able to see that it is very easy to tell what direction the sound is coming from. To say this is wrong just makes me think u got a little over zealous fan boyism towards 5.1. The 3D positioning is obviously gonna be better with 5 speakers set an optimal distance away from you but the simulated sound on the headphone is pritty damn good. If the best professional gamers only use headphones that has to atleast say headphones are good enough!

And i think u mistaken my whole police calling thing. was trying to point out that in order to get the same level of detail out of 5.1 speakers as a headphone your gonna have to crank it up (not necessarily to the point of my over exaggeration). This isn't an option for everyone. If you live with other people or you live in an apartment and want to game late or even if u want to go to a lan party your kinda forced to use a headphone.

Recap. yes 5.1 is better than headphones for positioning. It’s more accurate and to me at least, is much easier to hear elevation differences than with headphones. But making headphones out to sound worthless in directional positioning compared to 5.1 is wrong. They have very respectful directional positioning and on an X-axis plane their pretty damn close to 5.1. Give the headphones some love!
post #28 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dook
Your right it is just simulated surround sound but if u clicked on that link you'll be able to see that it is very easy to tell what direction the sound is coming from. To say this is wrong just makes me think u got a little over zealous fan boyism towards 5.1. The 3D positioning is obviously gonna be better with 5 speakers set an optimal distance away from you but the simulated sound on the headphone is pritty damn good. If the best professional gamers only use headphones that has to atleast say headphones are good enough!
I used to be a professional gamer, that was before I got into the industry and became a tester, then designer, senior designer, associate producer, producer and then senior producer.

Pro gamers use headphones at gaming centers/conferences because they have to.

Noise cancellation is required and the rules of the center and set-up mean that surround sound set-ups are a non runner. Pro gamers tend NOT to choose headphones over surround sound at home when they are playing via the net, at least not the better ones.

Gaming is like sport, competitors take every edge they can. Surround sound set-ups are more accurate than headphones when it comes to 3D sound positioning, sound recognition and response when it is correctly programmed into a game- in short it is a edge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dook
Recap. yes 5.1 is better than headphones for positioning. It’s more accurate and to me at least, is much easier to hear elevation differences than with headphones.
That is all I have been trying to say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dook
But making headphones out to sound worthless in directional positioning compared to 5.1 is wrong. They have very respectful directional positioning and on an X-axis plane their pretty damn close to 5.1. Give the headphones some love!
I am not trying to say that headphones are worthless. Headphones are required at certain times and have their place. But I would say to gamers who are mainly playing FPS’s save the money that you are going to spend on an amp in order to improve sound detail (unless this is a crossover purchase and will be used for listening to music) and put the money towards a surround sound set-up. Then you will be able to compete with your headphones whether that is at gaming centers/conferences or LAN with your mates, whilst also being able to compete and play at a superior level at home over the net.

The fact is most people here are not at a competitive money earning level; they are playing LAN or more likely at home.....so keep the headphones and save money for the surround sound.

Or

Get the amp and accept that you have turned down a gaming edge and an experience that is more realistic and accept that you will be less successful in games that are programmed with surround sound.

I often use headphones for FPS gaming at home, but it isn’t and shouldn’t be seen as the first choice/best option IMHO.
post #29 of 37
I'm ignorant for the most part about pro-gaming. I haven't been to a LAN party since early this decade. I would think that a virtual warrior would want to train with the same equipment as they would use in battle.
post #30 of 37
Ok I give up
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