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Szell's Cleveland Orchestra Beethoven Box: Still a Bargain@80USD? - Page 2

post #16 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunnyears
All of these cycles are excellent, but for pure performance, the Szell cycle really is one of the very top of all time while the Fleisher piano concertos are the reference afaic! Those concertos are better than the Abbado by far. Pollini tends to be something of a pounder in Beethoven where Fleisher with equal masculine power just has more sensitivity. Just listen to Pollini's late Beethoven Sonatas and Diabelli Variations if you doubt this.
I think Pollini sounds (rightly) bored in the first two concertos. But from No 3 onwards he puts on the backburners and leaves Fleisher behind in dynamics and insight: Fleisher plays Beethoven like a classic, Pollini like a modern. As Bunny points out, this is exactly what Pollini does in the late sonatas (listen for example to his jazzy Op 111 recording). In the end it is (surprise, surprise) a matter of taste: I am enthralled by what Pollini finds in Beethoven, but I understand that if you are more interested in the romantic side of his music, Pollini is not for you. Ironically, I think that, with their infinite precision and transparency, Szell/Cleveland would have been the ideal band for Pollini.
post #17 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjhatfield
Beethoven: Symphonies Nos. 1 - 9, Piano Concertos Nos. 1 - 5 [BOX SET] [IMPORT]

I see this used to be $30, and now it is $80. Just wanted to know if you classical experts still think this is a bargain at that price? Also, how is the SQ on this? I picked up a recommendation for this somewhere on this forum, cannot remember where now, is this still the way to go to get a lot of excellent Beethoven performed by a fantastic orchestra? If there is a better way, other recommendations are appreciated. Thanks!
BMG has the Szell original jackets symphonies box set on sale for $39.99. This is an excellent deal.

MJ
post #18 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by seacard
There are some CDs that I cannot listen to on headphones because I don't enjoy them even though they are some of my favorite recordings when listening on speakers.
There's absolutely no reason why the Szell recording wouldn't sound great with headphones.

As for the quality of conducting today vs. the golden age, well... watch the DVD I recommended and you'll get an idea of what towering figures some of the conductors of back catalog CDs were. There's no one alive today who is as commanding and individual as Stokowski, Toscanini or Furtwangler. Those three are like Caruso, Melchior and Galli-Curci... Their likes will never be seen again, particularly in the culture (or lack thereof) we have today.

See ya
Steve
post #19 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot
There's no one alive today who is as commanding and individual as Stokowski, Toscanini or Furtwangler.
Depends. Fortunately, I can think of one.



Master of 20th century music visits Harvard
post #20 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicJunkie
BMG has the Szell original jackets symphonies box set on sale for $39.99. This is an excellent deal.

MJ
The set at Overstock.com includes the Fleisher/Szell piano concertos, so that makes it the bargain du jour.
post #21 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by calaf
I think Pollini sounds (rightly) bored in the first two concertos. But from No 3 onwards he puts on the backburners and leaves Fleisher behind in dynamics and insight: Fleisher plays Beethoven like a classic, Pollini like a modern. As Bunny points out, this is exactly what Pollini does in the late sonatas (listen for example to his jazzy Op 111 recording). In the end it is (surprise, surprise) a matter of taste: I am enthralled by what Pollini finds in Beethoven, but I understand that if you are more interested in the romantic side of his music, Pollini is not for you. Ironically, I think that, with their infinite precision and transparency, Szell/Cleveland would have been the ideal band for Pollini.
I don't know what type stove you have been using, but the back burners are traditionally the weaker ones, so if he puts on the back burners, that's going to be a simmer rather than a sear. Or maybe you were referring to those afterburners that jet engines use?

If you like Pollini's Beethoven, then the earlier set with Karl Böhm beats Abbado's to flinders. Abbado's Beethoven is, as is his Mahler, less magisterial and more introspective and Pollini's solo turns just don't mesh as well with Abbado as with Böhm. Unfortunately, the sound quality on the earlier cycle (which is actually a compilation, Jochum conducts the first two concertos) is a bit problematic -- it sounds almost as if the piano was in another room from the orchestra in some passages and it was back in the days when DG liked to supersize that instrument with overly close miking. Also, be warned, Böhm's first chord in the Emperor comes out like a crack of thunder and can easily blow a speaker if the volume isn't regulated carefully.

As for the 4th, give me Moravec any day of the week over Pollini.
post #22 of 35
i have upmost respect for szell and the cso. his wagner masterworks cd was an early favorite of mine. i don't know szell's beethoven as well, and would like to hear comparisons with karajan and bohm.

as for the beethoven violin concerto, i think the furtwangler/menuhin recording is an essential version.
post #23 of 35
As is often noted, it is hard to pick a single set of LvB symphonies since the primo performances are spread across orchestras and conductors. Certainly you'll be happy with the Szell/Cleveland if you get it at a bargain price. I've seen other good sets (Bohm, Karajan, Walter, etc) for great prices on ebay, especially in vinyl....
post #24 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunnyears
I don't know what type stove you have been using, but the back burners are traditionally the weaker ones, so if he puts on the back burners, that's going to be a simmer rather than a sear. Or maybe you were referring to those afterburners that jet engines use?
thanks for setting my burners straight, now I know why I burned my roast and crashed my plane last time I tried

Quote:
As for the 4th, give me Moravec any day of the week over Pollini.
I am discovering Moravec only now and I am trying to source his sonatas first. Is the 4th you refer to the one in this collection?
post #25 of 35
Thread Starter 
You all lost me a bit when you began discussing the finer points of the classical performance, but it made for an interesting read.

To wrap up, I've just ordered the following from yourmusic:

John Eliot Gardiner
Beethoven, The Nine Symphonies: $29.99

Pierre-Laurent Aimard
Beethoven: The Complete Piano Concertos: $17.97

Takács Quartet
Beethoven, String Quartets Op. 59, 1-3, "Razumovsky", "Harp" Op. 74: $11.98


...all of which were from recommendations I received from this thread and from use of the almighty search engine. Should give me a good feel for what is reputededly some of the greatest music ever written.
post #26 of 35
Calaf,

That's 1960s recording, and yes it's excellent. He also has a later recording with slightly better sound quality.

jj,

Of your 3 choices, my favorite would be the Takasc Beethoven quartets. The Gardiner isn't bad either! However, I'm no fan of Harnoncourt's Beethoven (I know I'm in the minority). His work with Mozart and Haydn is irreproachable but there is some sort of artificiality or mannerist quality in his Beethoven that just jars me and it is especially at play in those concertos (which I gave away).

A better choice imo for the concertos would have been the Hogwood/Lubin piano concertos also available at yourmusic (artist search Lubin). That would really compliment the Gardiner as it is actually HIP rather than the chamber orchestra favored by Harnoncourt. In fact, if you haven't opened it yet, just send it back! I really don't like that concerto cycle at all! It's too bad that Y/M doesn't have the Gardiner/Levin piano concertos to complete his Beethoven cycle.



Edit: Before the Decca re-release of the Lubin/Hogwood piano concertos, the original set (L'Oiseau Lyre), used went for amazingly high prices.
post #27 of 35
My impression of Harnoncourt's Beethoven "I like to play really, really softly most of the time, then suddently Very Loud.
post #28 of 35
Is there anybody that has heard both the Abbado Beethoven and the Barenboim Beethoven that can comment on and compare the two?
post #29 of 35
Sony has reissued the Fleisher/Szell concerts (remastered, let's hope for the best...). At least the 3/4th are available at
yourmusic. At $5.99 it's really a bargain...
post #30 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by seacard
Is there anybody that has heard both the Abbado Beethoven and the Barenboim Beethoven that can comment on and compare the two?
I have. Both have good sound quality. Barenboim is much more in "the grand manner", while Abbado is fleeter and lighter.
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