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Nordost Valhalla appreciation thread - Page 6  

post #76 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_man View Post
they can even make the cables such that the ground reaches the destination quicker or slower than the neutral does. this is completely safe as we are talking pico seconds.

of course this is why these are so expensive. dealing with pico second science is complex and takes hours of trial and error to perfect.
that's amazing. wow. but is that even necessary in most systems??
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_man View Post
these amps also tend to draw 20-30 amps which excludes the iec specification anyhow.
Yeah, don't US wall sockets max out at a rated 20 amps?
post #77 of 272
what cable should be used to rewire stax omega 2's?

should i bypass the connector on the faceplate and hardwire to the pcb?
post #78 of 272
they do that to those cables solely for the purpose of making them have their own sound. there is heavy physics involved. that is why patrick82 should not be comprimising them in the manner which he has! like i said as they were designed they are plenty safe. start taking them apart without understanding what you are doing and you are asking for it.

the us national electrical code allowes for up to 20 amp receptacles in living areas for items that could be portable. larger branches are allowed for items such as stoves, air conditioners and refrigerators. first of all a 20 amp usa bladed plug is different than ones that support up to 15 amps. therefore a 20 amp receptacle has a slightly different configuration to accept this blade. that way you do not stick a device that can draw 20 amps into a branch rated for 15 amps.

as far as mark levinson,krell,threshold amplifiers that have 30 amp terminations they fall under the same rule as the stoves etc. 500 pound amps are not considered portable devices. of course the required over current protection device(circuit breaker) and proper gauge wiring is required to serve this branch.

off the shelf audiophile replacement cords do not support those amperages. for everyones safety the law in the usa requires that if those amplifiers draw 20 amps or above they shall not have a iec socket. consumer gear of that rating must be captive wired. pro gear can have powercon or other connections.

then there is the matter of inrush current. with standard devices that is not even required by the consumer to be known. you plug it in the wall and use it. with very big amps the cord allowes such that you will be dealing with an electrician. for good reason.

of course, this probably would not matter to patrick82. he is playing with fire literally. he has stated that he does not care. that is so unbelievably irresponsible of him.

no one other than those qualified should mess with electricity by any means!

music_man
post #79 of 272
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_man View Post
they do that to those cables solely for the purpose of making them have their own sound. there is heavy physics involved. that is why patrick82 should not be comprimising them in the manner which he has! like i said as they were designed they are plenty safe. start taking them apart without understanding what you are doing and you are asking for it.
That's why I replaced Cary's internal wiring with the same gauge (22 awg). Different gauge never works.

Looks pretty safe to me, cables aren't touching each other nor the metal chassis, they are stiff cables. Conductors are separated from each other to avoid crosstalk as well. The improvement was pretty good for a transport, this was the only internal tweak I heard a significant difference in. The improvement was bigger than upgrading from Toslink to Valhalla digital AES/EBU.





This is almost the same as before, the conductors used to be split from the IEC socket into both channels. But instead I split them from the beginning. It makes it two monoblock amps instead. I'm using the leftover conductors as ground signals, they are also separating the live and neutral ones for less crosstalk. It should be better than the normal Valhalla.

Better would be to separate all the conductors completely like Tara Labs does, but I don't have enough ERS Paper left to try it.
post #80 of 272
Does it really matter if the OEM conductors are say rolled single conductor and the replacement ones are say helical (twisted and such) (with regards to dc-offset)?

The only thing I know about cables is that the longer they are the more the cable itself is used as a ground and it can get hotter because of this (possibly very hot). I think this is only an issue in really thick car audio ground wire.

Patrick82 did you notice the SQ improve when you ditched the OEM internal wiring and install your own internal wiring? Looks neat. =)

I guess just have a fire extinguisher hidden for use, ok.

Are the fuses that necessary? I mean the only thing that would happen if it wasn't fused properly is that a spike or over current surge would blow the electronics themselves, which I guess would suck if you had to replace them b/c they weren't fused. Also the power parts of the electronics may catch fire if the fuse wasn't in place. Which could be fixed with some high velocity flame retardant (fire extinguisher).

I don't really see any harm in replacing the power cabling if it's all grounded properly and such. But having just wires shoved into small molded connectors isn't acceptable. It if slips out it's very dangerous. You need to permanently attach the wires so you're satisfied they will not come loose.

Also, you need to remember that the audio components such as the capacitors and such are still energized when you turn the power off.

For instance, in car audio (which I used to be heavily into) you pretty much supply the power cabling yourself and supply the ground also. You take the power source and hook it up to the power amplifier and then supply the ground and remote on/off. It's all bare leads and wires, just like we see here (although on a small and higher voltage scale). It's not too different than what you are doing here except in the USA the car power supply is 12V and this is 220V. 220V will kill you.

The only thing you would want to make sure is that all the leads are tightly secured, so if there is a wire slip or something you don't catch anything on fire by a spark or sudden 220v surge into your amp stand (furniture chassis and such) which may possibly kill you if you were somehow touching it or the chassis.

That would also suck.

Other than that it seems fine. Just make sure the power leads (+ and -) and all that are secure to your level of satisfaction (safety). I don't see any harm in replacing the power cable if it's all secure on the inside.
post #81 of 272
Thread Starter 

DAC1 = The end of all DACs

Quote:
Originally Posted by music_man View Post
maybe you have some special super ears for a human. seriously. then you are blessed. i cannot think of another explanation as to why you hear these differences as you explain them. i do believe you. the detail with which you remark on the changes makes you sound very sincere. maybe i wish i could hear all that. on the other hand it may be a great burden to constantly search for "more". seemingly never satisfied.
I have worse ears than anyone in this forum, I'm quite sure of it, unless others have placebo. I can only hear a difference if there is something wrong with the sound.
I do many tweaks at the same time because otherwise I wouldn't be able hear a difference. If I did one tweak at a time then ERS Paper wouldn't make a difference and I would become a skeptic, but with 32 sheets it made the biggest improvement I have ever heard.

When I started vibration isolation I did it extreme from the beginning, 3 step isolation for the source and 2 step for the amp. Because less than that and I wouldn't have been sure it made a difference, and I would have thought it was placebo instead.

Source and amp upgrade have never been worth the price to me, they never improved the sound, they just changed it to the worse, there is always some compromise. That's why I downgraded my high-end CD player to Benchmark DAC1, it's better in every way after both use the same tweaks. There's a limit how good you can make high-end gear, but with DAC1 it seems like there is no limit at all. I would not trade it to $22 000 sources because I don't want worse sound from Burr Brown DACs. People underestimate how good DAC1 can become, it doesn't have any internal bottlenecks, the rest of the system does. That's what I have found, why else do I get huge improvements from tweaking? My ears are so bad I often can't hear what people are saying, superman ears? Don't think so.
post #82 of 272
i cannot even believe all i have read and seen in this thread.

patrick82, in the first picture(the cary) it appears that the leads are exposed past the sub connectors. a big nono. the second picture is a general mess. sorry to be honest.

you made absurd statements such as relying on a components internal fault protection to make you aware of your mistakes. you further stated that you had opportunity to test this feature

you mentioned you do not care if it all blows up. maybe your neighbors and the firefighters do?

the external ers pictures are just silly and ugly, but whatever. the internal usage of that on your behalf looks about as safe as napalm.

the scariest of all remains that you do not even realise the fault of your ways.
one who thinks he knows what he is doing and does not is truly the most dangerous of all.

i seem to remember you also reversing polarity somewhere. i do see that you took apart nordhost cables and deducted or changed usage of the conductors.

it is obvious you do not understand this stuff.
what i find most intresting is that you were even prompted to cut apart $1,000usd cables and desecrate $2,000 audio components. whoa.

i mean you no personal insult. i am just telling you that your electrical handywork is far from cool.

puiah11, do not give him any more ideas!
of course it would sound better without fuses. he may not live to hear it! that is the worst idea i have heard here yet. you think it has fuses to humor us? especially after his treatment of it. it should have 50 fuses now!

fyi, a cars electrical system will not hesitate to kill you or trap you in a burning vehicle. novices should stay away from that too.
fuses are an absolute must in car audio.

diy is great. this is a complete bastardization of diy. i am honestly trying to be a nice guy by informing you of this. also, i do not wish for anyone else to see this thinking they should follow suit.

tuberoller was mentioned in another thread tonite. i wonder if he has seen this thread and if so what he thinks

music_man
post #83 of 272
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by puiah11 View Post
Patrick82 did you notice the SQ improve when you ditched the OEM internal wiring and install your own internal wiring? Looks neat. =)
Yes, but bypassing fuses in the PS Audio GCC-100 amp made a bigger difference, it was like an amp upgrade. I tried a Hifi-tuning fuse with my previous more expensive £5000 Krell amp but didn't hear a difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by puiah11 View Post
I don't really see any harm in replacing the power cabling if it's all grounded properly and such. But having just wires shoved into small molded connectors isn't acceptable. It if slips out it's very dangerous. You need to permanently attach the wires so you're satisfied they will not come loose.
I never liked connectors, horrible. I am scared everytime I push connectors inside AC outlets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by puiah11 View Post
Also, you need to remember that the audio components such as the capacitors and such are still energized when you turn the power off.
I wait a few hours until I start tweaking. I still don't touch any capacitors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by puiah11 View Post
The only thing you would want to make sure is that all the leads are tightly secured, so if there is a wire slip or something you don't catch anything on fire by a spark or sudden 220v surge into your amp stand (furniture chassis and such) which may possibly kill you if you were somehow touching it or the chassis.
I have put some extra solder there just in case, I also have cotton sleeves around the ends if they slip. I also have black tape all over the place.

Formula 1 driver racing 200 mph on city street is still safer than grandmother driving 50 mph.
Even bare air dielectric AC wiring in the apartment would be safe for me, I can dodge it by rolling under and jumping over and stuff, but I can't do it because other people are so careless. It would be hard to listen to music from the smell of dead bodies...
post #84 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_man View Post
patrick82, in the first picture(the cary) it appears that the leads are exposed past the sub connectors. a big nono.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I was getting at. If this was my system I'd want to see something more secure. The way it appears now it seems as if the wires are simply sitting in the small plastic connectors that are soldered onto the PCB. They need to be crimped or attached better. Also as music_man noted the wires being exposed past the connector will be prone to oxidation and also may short out a component if the system is still live and you accidentally hit the exposed wiring with another live wire. Then you would have to replace the entire unit.

I still don't think the power wiring is that big of a deal as long as it not just a 'shove in wire and let it sit there in slot' solution.

For instance in the picture below look at circle A and notice how the connectors are secure and the wire isn't exposed past the connector. It's secure as it snaps into it's female counterpart.

In circle B we see bare wire touching (soldered?) to the connector leads off the PCB.

You can achieve more safety if you would somehow isolate each wire from the others so the possibilitiy of a short doesn't ruin you gear, although I don't know how extreme that would be.



The exposed connector needs a boot (green yellow wire). How is the green yellow wire connected to the PCB? The red wire's connection with the other cable depends on tape? Hmmm.



Sloppy.



Consider using butt connectors or tap connectors to bridge the power cable and internal wiring.



Would those wires budge if someone yanked on them?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
Even bare air dielectric AC wiring in the apartment would be safe for me, I can dodge it by rolling under and jumping over and stuff, but I can't do it because other people are so careless.
Extreme.
post #85 of 272
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_man View Post
you made absurd statements such as relying on a components internal fault protection to make you aware of your mistakes. you further stated that you had opportunity to test this feature
ICEpower amps have short-circuit protection. It's the tweakers dream. With other components I need to be careful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by music_man View Post
the external ers pictures are just silly and ugly, but whatever. the internal usage of that on your behalf looks about as safe as napalm.
ICEpower amp is cooler than my modem. I didn't put it near the capacitors in the power plant because they are hot, so I put it outside instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by music_man View Post
i seem to remember you also reversing polarity somewhere. i do see that you took apart nordhost cables and deducted or changed usage of the conductors.
I disconnect 4 of the conductors of the Valhalla cables and bend them to the side and wrap with black tape. I do that at both ends. Only 1 conductor is connected, it's tighter and safer as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by music_man View Post
it is obvious you do not understand this stuff.
what i find most intresting is that you were even prompted to cut apart $1,000usd cables and desecrate $2,000 audio components. whoa.
Last time I looked Valhalla power cable is $3000. They just keep increasing the price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by music_man View Post
puiah11, do not give him any more ideas!
of course it would sound better without fuses. he may not live to hear it! that is the worst idea i have heard here yet. you think it has fuses to humor us? especially after his treatment of it. it should have 50 fuses now!
Ultimate Outlet + Power Plant has all the protection I need.

Quote:
Originally Posted by music_man View Post
diy is great. this is a complete bastardization of diy. i am honestly trying to be a nice guy by informing you of this. also, i do not wish for anyone else to see this thinking they should follow suit.
There are people who only care about safety, and there are others who only care about better sound.
When you are gambling you need to accept the losses if you lose. What I have won is far greater than what I can lose.

There are loads of audiophiles who have hardwired cables and bypassed fuses. I can't see anything wrong with that. They all say it sounds amazing, I agree. It's too bad that people are so afraid they don't want better sound. Being afraid doesn't lead you anywhere...
post #86 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
Even bare air dielectric AC wiring in the apartment would be safe for me, I can dodge it by rolling under and jumping over and stuff, but I can't do it because other people are so careless. It would be hard to listen to music from the smell of dead bodies...
How much does someone want to bet this ends up in some ditz signature?

The cute part is that he really could get some kid killed who's trying to emulate him. This stuff has just become irresponsible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post

There are people who only care about safety, and there are others who only care about better sound.
When you are gambling you need to accept the losses if you lose. What I have won is far greater than what I can lose.

There are loads of audiophiles who have hardwired cables and bypassed fuses. I can't see anything wrong with that. They all say it sounds amazing, I agree. It's too bad that people are so afraid they don't want better sound. Being afraid doesn't lead you anywhere...
post #87 of 272
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samgotit View Post
The cute part is that he really could get some kid killed who's trying to emulate him. This stuff has just become irresponsible.
There are people who want to look as pretty as possible, and there are others who are willing to get 3rd degree burns from saving his Valhalla power cords because he is too poor to buy new ones.



post #88 of 272
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by puiah11 View Post
The exposed connector needs a boot (green yellow wire). How is the green yellow wire connected to the PCB? The red wire's connection with the other cable depends on tape? Hmmm.
The ground wire is connected to PCB with a screw. The other wires are tight, but I have still wrapped them with tape. I have loads of tape and cotton there in case something comes loose. I also have the Valhalla cable taped to the rear of the chassis because it is little heavy.
That setup was supposed to be temporary, but I have had it for almost a year now, no problems! The tape in the back hasn't come loose. I keep checking my system often to see if everything is the same as before.

No problems with the DAC1 either. ERS Paper inside the chassis is same as before, I don't shake the components when I move them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by puiah11 View Post
Would those wires budge if someone yanked on them?
Yes, but I don't get visitors. Maybe I should put a "Hazardous environment" sign on my door.
post #89 of 272
I guess the only suggestion I would make is instead of using the female connector (soldered onto the PCB) instead of using that desolder that item and then just solder on the leads directly to the PCB itself.

I have no idea how to solder so a DIY expert would prob. be better at explaining how to achieve this.

Then you would have better signal AND better safety (since they wires wouldn't be prone to budge since they are directly connected to the PCB).

The only problem I would forsee is that the gauge of the wire would be too great for what the PCB would accept (hole size).

Good luck!
post #90 of 272
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by puiah11 View Post
I guess the only suggestion I would make is instead of using the female connector (soldered onto the PCB) instead of using that desolder that item and then just solder on the leads directly to the PCB itself.

I have no idea how to solder so a DIY expert would prob. be better at explaining how to achieve this.

Then you would have better signal AND better safety (since they wires wouldn't be prone to budge since they are directly connected to the PCB).

The only problem I would forsee is that the gauge of the wire would be too great for what the PCB would accept (hole size).

Good luck!
Valhalla is so stiff and heavy that any twisting movement easily loosens the soldered wires.
But when the Valhalla is soldered to the soft internal wiring there's no problem with pulling and twisting, it's much safer. Same with DAC1, I can pull it 10cm and it doesn't come loose. There's also less problem with vibration when it isn't stiff.

The reason I haven't soldered the conductors to the IEC crimps is because it's already tight enough, the conductors had to be bent into the correct shape for it to be tight. To loosen them I really need to pull hard. I don't want to use unnecessary solder because it gives worse sound.

That female connector isn't soldered to the PCB, it can be unplugged. That's why I used that setup, it's better than Neutrik Powercon and doesn't cost a thing. The other end was soldered to the output of Power Plant, so I needed to unplug it somewhere.
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