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Nordost Valhalla appreciation thread - Page 9  

post #121 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
Since I got my vibration isolation rack my system has sounded too heavy, that's why I made my Valhallas thinner.

A thicker cable compensates for a thin sounding system. When using the correct size it sounds like it should sound, it shows all weaknesses. 1 conductor (22awg for analog, 16awg for power) is all that is needed, anything more is a band-aid. The Valhalla interconnect with it's 4x22awg per signal is close to 16awg total. Valhalla power cord with 3x16awg is around 11awg total. It's way too fat and sounds too muddy and heavy in my system. I needed more detail, that's why I disconnected the rest of the conductors. Each Valhalla I modded gave huge improvements, the muddiness went away.

The silver plating further compensates for a muddy system by making it edgy and smooth which gives fake transparency. You can combine it in a system with stock cabling to get that result because Valhalla is colored.

Before I used to think it was weird that Valhalla sounded the same in every system it was put into, if it really was neutral then every system should sound different instead of having the same obvious Valhalla sound signature.
I don't know what you're doing patrick but sometimes you're hard to follow. I don't agree with ya about the interlinks, they are just fine the way they are off manufacteror.

I don't hear anything fake and is just nice in balance....i think you modded a bit toooo much now!

P.s.
i will find out soon how neutral they are, since i will update the caps with v-cap tftf caps, the most neutral around!

Instead of doing lousy soldering jobs with cables, i would suggest you to look also into these caps since the caps in critical signal paths enhance the sound more then whatever cable upgrade!

P.P.s.
it does sound different on other systems, otherwise everybody would use valhalla and they don't! I even recall a review where the valkyrja interlinks sounded way much better then the valhalla's in that system! he gave the valkyrja 8 points out of 10 and the valhalla 5 out of ten! Go figure!
post #122 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourmaline View Post
Instead of doing lousy soldering jobs with cables, i would suggest you to look also into these caps since the caps in critical signal paths enhance the sound more then whatever cable upgrade!
do you think they would fit in his cd player? it uses mostly surface mount parts.

btw, the "lesser" v-caps are the hotness. i have them as interstage decoupling caps in my melos. very nice caps. if the teflon's are nicer (which they better be for 10 times the $$$) you are in for a treat. i also like the multicap rtx. i may switch the v-caps for these. i think the multicaps are a little "truer", the tube amp already smooths stuff over.
post #123 of 272
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourmaline View Post
I don't know what you're doing patrick but sometimes you're hard to follow. I don't agree with ya about the interlinks, they are just fine the way they are off manufacteror.

I don't hear anything fake and is just nice in balance....i think you modded a bit toooo much now!
If I can't hear what vocalist is singing then there is something wrong. It's probably because I listen to low volume.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tourmaline View Post
i will find out soon how neutral they are, since i will update the caps with v-cap tftf caps, the most neutral around!

Instead of doing lousy soldering jobs with cables, i would suggest you to look also into these caps since the caps in critical signal paths enhance the sound more then whatever cable upgrade!
My amp has four BlackGate FK caps. They still don't work properly since I heard a huge difference between Vishnu and Valhalla power cords.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourmaline View Post
it does sound different on other systems, otherwise everybody would use valhalla and they don't! I even recall a review where the valkyrja interlinks sounded way much better then the valhalla's in that system! he gave the valkyrja 8 points out of 10 and the valhalla 5 out of ten! Go figure!
Yes, Valkyrja is more neutral than Valhalla because of less silver plating depth.
http://www.10audio.com/nordost_valkyrja.htm
post #124 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
Yes, Valkyrja is more neutral than Valhalla because of less silver plating depth.
if it is more neutral because of less silver plating, what would happen if the silver plating was removed entirely?
post #125 of 272
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikongod View Post
if it is more neutral because of less silver plating, what would happen if the silver plating was removed entirely?
Uh, a cable without silver plating. Now I will have nightmares...

A round conductor can never sound neutral, there is always a compromise which is why different thickness changes the sound, it's always colored no matter what you do. A rectangular conductor is needed to make it neutral, Tara Labs has it and it's made of copper. It doesn't compensate for a crappy system though.
post #126 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
Uh, a cable without silver plating. Now I will have nightmares...
what is wrong with a non-plated 5n pure copper cable?
Quote:
A round conductor can never sound neutral, there is always a compromise which is why different thickness changes the sound, it's always colored no matter what you do. A rectangular conductor is needed to make it neutral, Tara Labs has it and it's made of copper. It doesn't compensate for a crappy system though.
why not make the wire have an octagonal profile? if 4 flat sides is more than no flat sides (durr, even an idiot can see this) why is a wire with 8 flat sides not better than one with 4?

if its always compromised, how can you hope for neutrality?

i do agree though, that wire dosnt make up for a crap source or amp.
post #127 of 272
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikongod View Post
what is wrong with a non-plated 5n pure copper cable?
With silver plated cable you get both heavy and detailed sound, it's the best of both worlds. Without silver plating it's more neutral but you need to choose between weight or detail. Thicker cable gives thicker sound and thinner cable gives thinner sound.



Quote:
Originally Posted by nikongod View Post
why not make the wire have an octagonal profile? if 4 flat sides is more than no flat sides (durr, even an idiot can see this) why is a wire with 8 flat sides not better than one with 4?

if its always compromised, how can you hope for neutrality?
The more sides you add the rounder it gets. Perfectly round doesn't exist.

Silver plated cable sounds like a thin and thick conductor combined, it makes everything more distinct and the contrast ratio will sound bigger which gives fake dynamics and transparency. The background isn't supposed to be that black, it's fake. If you add whiter whites into a grey background then it looks blacker! The opposite is true as well.

A rectangular conductor is like having all the conductor sizes combined, it's more neutral but doesn't give fake transparency like Valhalla does.
post #128 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
If I can't hear what vocalist is singing then there is something wrong. It's probably because I listen to low volume.


My amp has four BlackGate FK caps. They still don't work properly since I heard a huge difference between Vishnu and Valhalla power cords.
Yes, Valkyrja is more neutral than Valhalla because of less silver plating depth.
http://www.10audio.com/nordost_valkyrja.htm

Patrick, try the v-cap tftf caps or the audio note silver caps, these two are the best around and change the sound much more for the good then cables ever can do! Not cheap though, especially the audionote silver caps go for a couple of hundred dollars a piece, going up real quick for higher value!

Remember theat black gates need at least 500 hours to sound best!
post #129 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
With silver plated cable you get both heavy and detailed sound, it's the best of both worlds. Without silver plating it's more neutral but you need to choose between weight or detail. Thicker cable gives thicker sound and thinner cable gives thinner sound.
dont the sounds smear across the middle?
Quote:
The more sides you add the rounder it gets. Perfectly round doesn't exist.
does it get more sides or more corners? or is it that the angle around the corner becomes lower?
Quote:
Silver plated cable sounds like a thin and thick conductor combined, it makes everything more distinct and the contrast ratio will sound bigger which gives fake dynamics and transparency. The background isn't supposed to be that black, it's fake. If you add whiter whites into a grey background then it looks blacker! The opposite is true as well.
why not make an amp and a cable with a backround as black as fresh asphalt and let the music on the recording drive over it like a car on a fresh paved road?
post #130 of 272
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
The background isn't supposed to be that black, it's fake. If you add whiter whites into a grey background then it looks blacker! The opposite is true as well.
Valhalla boosts up the whiteness to give a fake black background. ERS Paper boosts up the blackness to give even more whiteness. Neither of them add any weaknesses. This explains why Valhalla + ERS combo sounds more transparent than real life. Where is muddiness? I can't hear muddiness until I remove K1000 from my head, they are that good!


Quote:
Originally Posted by tourmaline View Post
Remember theat black gates need at least 500 hours to sound best!
That explains why I heard new detail every day. I thought it was all in my mind.
post #131 of 272
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikongod View Post
dont the sounds smear across the middle?
That's the point, it makes it more distinct. It's like having a sea of lava and another sea of ice, where they meet it starts steaming.

Bass of Valhalla is very warm like lava, highs are very analytical like ice. But highs are still smooth because of air dielectric (wind machine) and polished conductor surface (you know ice machine like in ice hockey). Valhalla is like having a smooth ice conductor filled with hot lava inside, except it never melts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikongod View Post
why not make an amp and a cable with a backround as black as fresh asphalt and let the music on the recording drive over it like a car on a fresh paved road?
Because the recordings aren't black in the first place. If you hide it with crappy cables you also sacrifice the detail.
post #132 of 272
As far as i know silverplating is also used to minimize the skineffect. Silverplating forces the sound into the core...
post #133 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
Tara Labs has it and it's made of copper. It doesn't compensate for a crappy system though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikongod View Post
i do agree though, that wire dosnt make up for a crap source or amp.
Correct! Correct!
True systems are cordless.
post #134 of 272
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourmaline View Post
As far as i know silverplating is also used to minimize the skineffect.
Thin silver plated litz wire minimizes the skin effect problem. But skin effect shouldn't matter for audio signals anyway, there is something else to it.

I did some searching:

http://www.psaudio.com/products/xstr...o_overview.asp
Quote:
When you plate one material over the other you have, in effect, two “skins” and high frequencies can sound either dull or irritating depending on materials.
http://stereos.about.com/od/homester...ables_tech.htm
Quote:
When carrying an analog audio signal, silver-plated copper causes an irritating sound.
http://blogs.chron.com/soundvision/a...get_wired.html
Quote:
Interestingly, there is debate about silver plating the copper conductors in analog audio cables. Some very intelligent people I know claim that the process of silver plating the copper actually oxidizes the upper layer of copper in the conductor. And since the lower frequency content of analog audio signals (compared to video and RF signals) does not rely on skin conductivity, but rather utilizes the entire depth of the conductor, this layer of oxidized copper (poor conductive properties) between the silver surface and the rest of the copper content poses a problem.
http://www.taralabs.com/images/TheConsonantAlloyTM.pdf
Quote:
Silver-plated copper conductors worsen the problem. Silver accentuates high frequencies more than the equivalent skin-depth layer of copper would, delivering them out of phase with the underlying copper core.
This is what I'm hearing. If you mix materials then it's going to sound messed up and more distinct. The silver plating should sound irritating but it doesn't because of air dielectric and polished conductor surface, it sounds very smooth!


Round conductor will always be colored no matter what you do, and you can choose a certain coloration to compensate for the system. If people liked neutral sound then everyone would be using rectangular Tara Labs cables.
post #135 of 272
Thread Starter 

Conductor burn-in is real! Dedicated interconnect grounding gives improvement!

I went for dedicated grounding for the Valhalla interconnect (like Tara Labs) and it made the biggest improvement ever. Then I started comparing cables with ERS Paper to see if that was better (it wasn't). But when I soldered back Valhalla something was wrong, it didn't sound like before. After checking my system I couldn't find the problem, I put shielding on and off but didn't hear anything, so I assumed I had my first placebo, I was wrong, it wasn't placebo.

When I soldered back the Valhalla I used fresh conductors inside the cable instead of the ones I previously used. That was the problem! Between 60-84 hours of burn-in the improvement in clarity was dramatic!


First impressions dedicated interconnect shield grounding: Blacker background; higher resolution, smoother, more bass, more detail, cleaner highs. The same improvement as ERS Paper.
Deep bass improved the most, I didn't think it was possible for bass to be this fast while having even more decay. I hear beats in between beats, a new world of bass has opened up.
Vocals are very clean, I hear the words very clear now. Highs shimmer faster than before.



First impressions cable burn-in: More clarity. More space between sounds. More low-level detail. Cleaner vocals. Faster bass. Faster shimmering.
Complex passages are now very clear instead of muddy like they used to be.


The improvement from cable burn-in was as big as the improvement from dedicated grounding for the interconnect.
Improvement score: 3 000 000


Edit: I'm using Valkyrja speaker wiring to ground the shield.
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