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Sennheiser HD650 Impressions Thread - Page 549

post #8221 of 36839

So, whatsup with this price increase? I could find for like $300-$350 on Ebay 1 year ago. Is it a "newer" model or something like that?

The price hasn't changed here in Japan, I can find for ¥36,800 (or like $470)....

post #8222 of 36839
Quote:
Originally Posted by yuerakuten View Post

So, whatsup with this price increase? I could find for like $300-$350 on Ebay 1 year ago. Is it a "newer" model or something like that?

The price hasn't changed here in Japan, I can find for ¥36,800 (or like $470)....

 

It's Sennheiser clamping down on its pricing policies. Authorized dealers are really not allowed to mark down their products. 

post #8223 of 36839
Quote:
Originally Posted by yuerakuten View Post

So, whatsup with this price increase? I could find for like $300-$350 on Ebay 1 year ago. Is it a "newer" model or something like that?

The price hasn't changed here in Japan, I can find for ¥36,800 (or like $470)....

 

 

How much is average price for "Like New" condition on eBay by the way?

Anyone knows?

post #8224 of 36839

The "like new" that I've seen on ebay are around the $350-$375 mark.

post #8225 of 36839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baten View Post

I totally retract saying the HD650's sound relatively awesome unamped or through a pathetic excuse of an amp like whatever logitech speakers come with. Great to fall asleep with, but far from awesome sounding. If you want enjoyable music, you need an amp. Solid state is more than good enough, you just need some body with those beats.

 

beerchug.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedTea View Post

Oh nooo

 

are my stock GE gonna die too?! :( 

 

All tubes die someday.  The question is when a particular pair will die.  Paying more for a tube doesn't really make it more or less likely it will become microphonic or noisy.  Whether it's a $10 tube like the GEs or a $200 tube like the Lorenz being discussed....some tubes seemingly go on forever and others fall apart in a few months or less.  They're old stock that have been sitting in a Naval warehouse since WWII in many cases...tubes are a bit of a roulette game. It always pays to keep spares wink.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by amandarae View Post

Hello Matt,

 

No, mine is only an E88CC(6922).  Just thinking aloud here and nothing more but I always wonder how a PCC88 works and sound good when use in a circuit designed for 6922/6DJ8 with an operating heater voltage 10% less than it should be getting?  But, you have a pair and you mentioned it's great so that's good enough for me.  I guess I will never know in person as I cannot justify paying the current market price for those tubes.

 

Try the JAN Phillips ECG 6922.  Maybe you like it and it does not cost an arm and a leg.

 

Regards!

 

"Officially" PCC88 isn't a 6DJ8....therefore it's not the official tube.  Unofficially, Lyr, like most 6DJ8 driver units is self biasing, and it works just fine, ideally the tube lasts even longer because you're running it at lower voltage.  Schiit's official stance is that they can't guarantee that the amp will perform to it's full sound quality with PCC88 tubes.  But for the tubes that are known to sound good...they indeed sound good.  I had the same fear until I tried it. biggrin.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtaylor991 View Post

On all this tube stuff, it looks like these are gonna be old stock tubes from way back when that just happen to still work (hopefully). Does anyone manufacture tubes anymore? What will happen when our stock of tubes completely runs out and we have these expensive amazing tube amps left? Someone will have to start making tubes soon if they aren't already. Just my 2c...

P.S. Are the stock tubes in the Lyr modern manufactured?

 

Yes, most tube users are using vintage tubes...stuff made mostly from the 40's through the 70's.  They're old, and when they're gone, they're gone which is why prices keep going up.  The good news is there's certainly manufacturers of tubes today.  Nobody would manufacture it for audiophile use, but in certain parts of the world tubes are still needed for industrial electronics that are relatively old (including military hardware such as old used Soviet planes, ships, radar systems, and communications/telecom equipment that wind up on the auction block to smaller countries on the cheap.)  But also there's a much bigger tube market out there for the music production industry...guitar amps, mic amps, mixing boards, etc.  I think most if not all new production tubes are made by New Sensor under various brands, Electro-Harmonix, Sovtek, Tesla, etc.   JJ in SK also makes current production tubes.

 

Audiophiles will rave how new production tubes are vastly inferior to vintage tubes, but some of the new ones sound as good as mid-priced old ones.  The really special old ones will never exist again though.  Also NOS is typically more reliable despite age since new ones are made for effect rather than necessity.  It's sold to musicians and audiophiles largely.  The old ones had to work since a lot of the old ones were meant for industrial (telecom) and military (guidance, radar/tracking, navigation, communications, avionics, etc.) use.  They had to withstand extreme shock and the like.  The new ones do not.

 

There are three stock options with Lyr.  The Russian tubes are vintage, and the "stock" GE tubes are vintage (I believe they were meant for TVs in the 70's.) The "JJ" option with Lyr is new production from JJ Electronics.

 

Either way, both HD650 and HD800 sound fantastic on the Lyr with some nice tubes biggrin.gif  There's certainly better amps out there for both of them, but darned if it doesn't sound great on Lyr....it's got all the basics covered. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by imackler View Post

 

It's Sennheiser clamping down on its pricing policies. Authorized dealers are really not allowed to mark down their products. 

 

"dealers are not allowed to mark down"...that phrase makes the skin crawl....


Edited by IEMCrazy - 10/15/12 at 10:14am
post #8226 of 36839
Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post

Are you guys referring to generic Lorenz tubes, or the ones that were/are actually sought after, i.e. made in Stuttgart Germany? Have a batch of Stuttgarts surfaced? If so, bag those babies and profit! wink.gif

 

Link please, I am intersted in Lorenz tubes

post #8227 of 36839
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post

 

Yes, most tube users are using vintage tubes...stuff made mostly from the 40's through the 70's.  They're old, and when they're gone, they're gone which is why prices keep going up.  The good news is there's certainly manufacturers of tubes today.  Nobody would manufacture it for audiophile use, but in certain parts of the world tubes are still needed for industrial electronics that are relatively old (including military hardware such as old used Soviet planes, ships, radar systems, and communications/telecom equipment that wind up on the auction block to smaller countries on the cheap.)  But also there's a much bigger tube market out there for the music production industry...guitar amps, mic amps, mixing boards, etc.  I think most if not all new production tubes are made by New Sensor under various brands, Electro-Harmonix, Sovtek, Tesla, etc.   JJ in SK also makes current production tubes.

 

Audiophiles will rave how new production tubes are vastly inferior to vintage tubes, but some of the new ones sound as good as mid-priced old ones.  The really special old ones will never exist again though.  Also NOS is typically more reliable despite age since new ones are made for effect rather than necessity.  It's sold to musicians and audiophiles largely.  The old ones had to work since a lot of the old ones were meant for industrial (telecom) and military (guidance, radar/tracking, navigation, communications, avionics, etc.) use.  They had to withstand extreme shock and the like.  The new ones do not.

 

There are three stock options with Lyr.  The Russian tubes are vintage, and the "stock" GE tubes are vintage (I believe they were meant for TVs in the 70's.) The "JJ" option with Lyr is new production from JJ Electronics.

 

Either way, both HD650 and HD800 sound fantastic on the Lyr with some nice tubes biggrin.gif  There's certainly better amps out there for both of them, but darned if it doesn't sound great on Lyr....it's got all the basics covered. 


I think  might rather stay with solid state then. I'm only 15 but I'm looking far into the future, 50 years or so, and I doubt there will still be an ample supply of tubes at that time, so I don't want to get too settled in to the usage of tubes. But, then again, what about CDs and vinyl (and my old reel tape deck eek.gif)? So maybe that logic isn't the best, but I think CDs and vinyl will be around (i.e. servicable in case something breaks, new cart/styli, etc) longer than vintage tubes will be.

post #8228 of 36839
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtaylor991 View Post


I think  might rather stay with solid state then. I'm only 15 but I'm looking far into the future, 50 years or so, and I doubt there will still be an ample supply of tubes at that time, so I don't want to get too settled in to the usage of tubes. But, then again, what about CDs and vinyl (and my old reel tape deck eek.gif)? So maybe that logic isn't the best, but I think CDs and vinyl will be around (i.e. servicable in case something breaks, new cart/styli, etc) longer than vintage tubes will be.

 

Dude, you should just hope you have most of your hearing in 50 years!! tongue.gif jk

post #8229 of 36839
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTCG View Post

 

Dude, you should just hope you have most of your hearing in 50 years!! tongue.gif jk

 

Yeah, if people continue to listen to dubstep and rap at deafening volumes, they'd be lucky to have their hearing intact by the time they get to 50! biggrin.gif

post #8230 of 36839
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtaylor991 View Post


I think  might rather stay with solid state then. I'm only 15 but I'm looking far into the future, 50 years or so, and I doubt there will still be an ample supply of tubes at that time, so I don't want to get too settled in to the usage of tubes. But, then again, what about CDs and vinyl (and my old reel tape deck eek.gif)? So maybe that logic isn't the best, but I think CDs and vinyl will be around (i.e. servicable in case something breaks, new cart/styli, etc) longer than vintage tubes will be.

 

There are current production tubes for the Lyr and plenty of other amps that are excellent.  I wouldn't let the whole vintage/NOS tube supply thing kill the idea of tubes for you.  Here's just a sampling of current production tubes I find as good or better than many/most NOS options:

 

- Genelex Gold Lion (6922, KT-66/77/88)

- Shuguang Black Treasure (6CA7-Z, KT-88, CV181)

- EAT (ECC88, ECC803S, KT-88, 300B)

- Emission Labs (5U4G, 274B, 300B)

- Tung-Sol (KT-120) --> This is actually a new tube design; there never was a NOS tube option.


Edited by jazzerdave - 10/15/12 at 7:12pm
post #8231 of 36839
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post

 

beerchug.gif

 

 

 

 

"Officially" PCC88 isn't a 6DJ8....therefore it's not the official tube.  Unofficially, Lyr, like most 6DJ8 driver units is self biasing, and it works just fine, ideally the tube lasts even longer because you're running it at lower voltage.  Schiit's official stance is that they can't guarantee that the amp will perform to it's full sound quality with PCC88 tubes.  But for the tubes that are known to sound good...they indeed sound good.  I had the same fear until I tried it. biggrin.gif

 

 

....

Hmmm,....Heater voltage has nothing to do with "biasing" on IDHT's.  Only on DHT's because the cathode is the filament.  Biasing is how you set the voltage/current/Z  to determine the Operating point of the tube along the load line.  I agree, PCC88 is not a 6DJ8, that's why there's a ECC88.  For the tube to last longer, maybe, depends on the plate voltage chosen by the designer if the tube is running or being driven soft, medium(ideal Q point) or hard, but that is independent of the heater voltage for IDHT tubes.  Also, starving the heater on IDHT's will reduce total emission, thus reduce gain and surely will shift the OP for the tube.  Just I said, cannot really comprehend how a starved heater-voltage IDHT tube sounds well on the Lyr.  But, you are the second guy reporting it so I have no reason to think otherwise.  Besides, I will never experience this as I will not pay that kind of money for a PCC88.  

 

regards!


Edited by amandarae - 10/15/12 at 3:30pm
post #8232 of 36839
Oh, btw, do you guys know when the start of the serial # or year when the "New" HD-650 came out? I search the forum and the pics I saw showing the difference is not as definitive to me because of the camera angle (or maybe my eyesight). Any link will be greatly appreciated!

Thank you!

Abe
post #8233 of 36839

Schiit Lyr with the HD650 is pretty amazing! 

 

I'm really lovin' it :D 

post #8234 of 36839
Quote:
Originally Posted by amandarae View Post

Oh, btw, do you guys know when the start of the serial # or year when the "New" HD-650 came out? I search the forum and the pics I saw showing the difference is not as definitive to me because of the camera angle (or maybe my eyesight). Any link will be greatly appreciated!
Thank you!
Abe

wondering the same

post #8235 of 36839
Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedTea View Post

Schiit Lyr with the HD650 is pretty amazing! 

 

I'm really lovin' it :D 

 

I'm all over it!!  wink_face.gif

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