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Sennheiser HD650 Impressions Thread - Page 536

post #8026 of 36885

Oh, and also if you buying the bifrost new I'd pass on the usb. It's an expensive option and the optical with an nice cable, ie bluejeans and such, will give you better sound. Save money+better sound=win win biggrin.gif

post #8027 of 36885

Of course the Crack doesn' t look like my Woo or the Lafigaro, but I still love its style.

I don't have a pic ready to be posted, I only have this

 

 

I'll see what I can do

post #8028 of 36885
Quote:
Originally Posted by satanigatan View Post

Question, if I get the Lyr I still need a DAC. Can I use the Lyr with my E17? And if so, what cables do I need to hook all of this up? The E17 would just connect via USB, and what cable would go into the e17 to connect to the lyr?


Has anyone tried this?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm going to get the bifrost in a month. Maybe I should just wait and buy them both at once. Apart of me kind of getting antsy to just get the Lyr now for my 650. Plus where I'm buying this from only has a few left in stock.  

Hi,

 

The E17 is a good DAC.  The trick is to have it powered when using optical input (L7 USB power port connected).  If you use it with just the battery powering the unit, the sound is good, but not compared to having it powered.  I will be very surprised if someone can show me a proof that the Wolfson WM8740 (24/192)does not sound good.   The Bifrost uses a different chip (AKM 4399, 24/192) and probably sound different than the E17.   But is it really better or different?

 

I think that the real question here is how well the analog signal out from the DAC drives your preferred amp.  

 

I disagree that using the E17 as DAC only does not sound good.  I think it is a matter of system matching really.  I have the E17 and I tried the E17, its analog out through a transformer coupled preamp to eliminate the unit having to drive the amp by itself, sounds much better.


Edited by amandarae - 10/2/12 at 2:46pm
post #8029 of 36885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss429 View Post

I really need to get some new tubes for mine. I am still using the original "cheap" Chinese tubes. I said I was going to do this as soon as I got it, well its 7 months later and I still have the originals. rolleyes.gif

Yeah!  The difference is not subtle with a better tube.

post #8030 of 36885

Tube rolling wasn't for me.  Sorry, but tube rolling isn't what it's hyped to be.  I heard very little difference between the stock chinese tubes and a pair of mullard drivers, besides a slightly warmer sound from treble rolloff.  I'm all for the experience of tube rolling once or twice for the pure novelty of it, but we shouldn't lead people to spend tons of money on extreme subtleties.  Reading older topics on head-fi, I would have been lead to believe they transform the refinement of the amp.  Boy what a shocker.

 

I guess I had it coming though.  The guy was already silly enough to be talking about burn-in and better cables making the sound oh so better.


Edited by TMRaven - 10/2/12 at 3:12pm
post #8031 of 36885
Quote:
Originally Posted by otherlives View Post

 

Thanks,  I do understand the general idea behind the sound signatures of each amp, but was trying to ask why people prefer the tube sound signature with these cans.  I guess I will find out!

 

 

With the generally warm sound signature of tube amps, you'd think they wouldn't be good match for the already warm sounding HD650.  Right?  Well, it's quite the opposite.  Why?  You ask?  Tube amps, namely the ones without output transformers(OTLs), excel in producing voltage into high impedance loads(hybrid amps are good too).  That is one reason why you'll see many users recommend OTL tube amps to pair with high impedance(120Ohms and up) headphones like Beyerdynamic's DT880 600Ohm or in this case the HD650.  Tube amps also seem to produce a better more 3D sound stage, helping to really showing off the spacial imaging and depth capabilities of the HD650. 

 

Now if you're after the clearest, most neutral as possible sound with the HD650 then a solid state amp is the way to go.  But if you want to hear what all the hype is about with the HD650 and tubes(which some say is the best way to listen to the HD650), by all means check 'em out.


Edited by Digital-Pride - 10/2/12 at 4:33pm
post #8032 of 36885
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

Tube rolling wasn't for me.  Sorry, but tube rolling isn't what it's hyped to be.  I heard very little difference between the stock chinese tubes and a pair of mullard drivers, besides a slightly warmer sound from treble rolloff.  I'm all for the experience of tube rolling once or twice for the pure novelty of it, but we shouldn't lead people to spend tons of money on extreme subtleties.  Reading older topics on head-fi, I would have been lead to believe they transform the refinement of the amp.  Boy what a shocker.

 

I guess I had it coming though.  The guy was already silly enough to be talking about burn-in and better cables making the sound oh so better.

Hi,

 

I agree with you!  I am not into cables too, as I made my own.  Tube rolling can be easily misunderstood.  It is not as shallow as a hit or miss exercise.  Even if the manufacturer, LD in this case, recommends using several types of tubes (EF91, EF92, EF95 etc.), the experimenter should consider that not only pin-outs and heater voltage are the factors. Yes, all the tubes will work, but does it drive the next stage effectively?  

 

I can see why one will spent so much time and money on tube rolling, but that should not be the case.  If you try a different tube from the one you have and expect a miracle, you are doomed.  If you cannot discern any difference, you should stop.  Like they say, there's a term for those who keeps doing the same exercise over and over again but expecting a different result each time. On the other hand, if you have an amp that uses tube rectifiers, say a Woo Audio6, and you cannot tell the difference when using a 5Y3, 5U4, 5V4, or a 5AR4 irregardless of the driver tubes, then definitely, there is something wrong with either the HD-650, or someones hearing.  Why, because there is no way that the operating point of the tube will be the same for all these rectifiers unless all your voltages are highly and efficiently regulated.


Edited by amandarae - 10/2/12 at 5:02pm
post #8033 of 36885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital-Pride View Post

 

 

With the generally warm sound signature of tube amps, you'd think they wouldn't be good match for the already warm sounding HD650.  Right?  Well, it's quite the opposite with the HD650.  Why?  You ask?  Tube amps namely the ones without output transformers(OTLs), excel in producing voltage into high impedance loads(hybrid amps are good too).  This why you'll see many users recommend OTL tube amps to pair with high impedance(120Ohms and up) headphones like Beyerdynamic's DT880 600Ohm or in this case the HD650.  Tube amps also seem to produce a better more 3D sound stage, helping to really showing off the spacial imaging and depth capabilities of the HD650. 

 

Now if you're after the clearest, most neutral as possible sound with the HD650 then a solid state amp is the way to go.  But if you want to hear what all the hype is about with the HD650 and tubes(which some say is the best way to listen to the HD650), by all means check 'em out.

I strongly agree!  IMO, OTL and HD-650 is the way to evaluate the HP on tube amps.  That is why I avoided getting transformer coupled output HP tube amps.  I built single Ended (IDHT, DHT)tube amps many times before and I would not say that I understand a lot on how it work but I do understand one thing, the output transformer dictates the quality of sound.  Since the HP 650 does not need a lot of power, then a transformer, which is another active component on the signal path, can be avoided.  However, if the HP has low sensitivity and low impedance, then a transformer is the cheapest solution to do it or else you will end up with a massive OTL amp.  My opinion only of course.


Edited by amandarae - 10/2/12 at 4:39pm
post #8034 of 36885

I also agree, but you should hear the 650s through the SPL Auditor which can actually swing 120 volts. The control of the drivers that the Auditor has is nothing short of sensational. There is no harshness, or coldness to the Auditor, it is clean and neutral, but not analytical at all. The 650s just seem to love the Auditor. I find that the 650s bass which lets be honest, while wonderful does tend to be a little bloomy and less defined is quite a bit tighter and articulate. I was very impressed with how true what many of you say, that the 650s seem to have an extra gear when they are fed really nice signals. Please do not think I am saying the Auditor is the only amp doing this, I know there are many fabulous amps, less expensive, and more expensive that also drive the 650s to new heights, I'm just a huge fan of the Auditor so I like to share that with other head-fiers. Who else can I tell that will actually get it?

post #8035 of 36885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Defender View Post

I also agree, but you should hear the 650s through the SPL Auditor which can actually swing 120 volts. The control of the drivers that the Auditor has is nothing short of sensational. There is no harshness, or coldness to the Auditor, it is clean and neutral, but not analytical at all. The 650s just seem to love the Auditor. I find that the 650s bass which lets be honest, while wonderful does tend to be a little bloomy and less defined is quite a bit tighter and articulate. I was very impressed with how true what many of you say, that the 650s seem to have an extra gear when they are fed really nice signals. Please do not think I am saying the Auditor is the only amp doing this, I know there are many fabulous amps, less expensive, and more expensive that also drive the 650s to new heights, I'm just a huge fan of the Auditor so I like to share that with other head-fiers. Who else can I tell that will actually get it?

 

The Auditor does look awesome.  How about some pics of your setup?  While you're at it, how about we post pics of each of our HD650 setup.  Let's get some eye candy in this discussion thread.L3000.gif


Edited by Digital-Pride - 10/2/12 at 7:19pm
post #8036 of 36885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Defender View Post

I also agree, but you should hear the 650s through the SPL Auditor which can actually swing 120 volts. The control of the drivers that the Auditor has is nothing short of sensational. There is no harshness, or coldness to the Auditor, it is clean and neutral, but not analytical at all. The 650s just seem to love the Auditor. I find that the 650s bass which lets be honest, while wonderful does tend to be a little bloomy and less defined is quite a bit tighter and articulate. I was very impressed with how true what many of you say, that the 650s seem to have an extra gear when they are fed really nice signals. Please do not think I am saying the Auditor is the only amp doing this, I know there are many fabulous amps, less expensive, and more expensive that also drive the 650s to new heights, I'm just a huge fan of the Auditor so I like to share that with other head-fiers. Who else can I tell that will actually get it?

Do you use a fully balance DAC or single ended then an adaptor for the SPL?  I look it up(SPL) and I see only balance inputs.  Thanks!

post #8037 of 36885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eargasmo View Post

Portable amp for HD650 sounds odd to me, considering HD650s don't seal at all, nor collapse/fold/flatten.

They work fine in a hotel room, but as an open HP they are questionable out and about.

post #8038 of 36885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital-Pride View Post

 

 

With the generally warm sound signature of tube amps, you'd think they wouldn't be good match for the already warm sounding HD650.  Right?  Well, it's quite the opposite.  Why?  You ask?  Tube amps, namely the ones without output transformers(OTLs), excel in producing voltage into high impedance loads(hybrid amps are good too).  That is one reason why you'll see many users recommend OTL tube amps to pair with high impedance(120Ohms and up) headphones like Beyerdynamic's DT880 600Ohm or in this case the HD650.  Tube amps also seem to produce a better more 3D sound stage, helping to really showing off the spacial imaging and depth capabilities of the HD650. 

 

Now if you're after the clearest, most neutral as possible sound with the HD650 then a solid state amp is the way to go.  But if you want to hear what all the hype is about with the HD650 and tubes(which some say is the best way to listen to the HD650), by all means check 'em out.

I really like how you put that Digi!

 

Understanding that there are of course exceptions to the rule, but generally speaking, your above comments really hit the nail on the head.

post #8039 of 36885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital-Pride View Post

How about we post pics of each of our HD650 setup. Let's get some eye candy in this discussion thread.L3000.gif
post #8040 of 36885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital-Pride View Post

 

 

With the generally warm sound signature of tube amps, you'd think they wouldn't be good match for the already warm sounding HD650.  Right?  Well, it's quite the opposite.  Why?  You ask?  Tube amps, namely the ones without output transformers(OTLs), excel in producing voltage into high impedance loads(hybrid amps are good too).  That is one reason why you'll see many users recommend OTL tube amps to pair with high impedance(120Ohms and up) headphones like Beyerdynamic's DT880 600Ohm or in this case the HD650.  Tube amps also seem to produce a better more 3D sound stage, helping to really showing off the spacial imaging and depth capabilities of the HD650. 

 

Now if you're after the clearest, most neutral as possible sound with the HD650 then a solid state amp is the way to go.  But if you want to hear what all the hype is about with the HD650 and tubes(which some say is the best way to listen to the HD650), by all means check 'em out.

 

I'm not very knowledgeable of the this subject, but learning every day :)  Do the benefits of amping also apply to low volume listening?

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