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Sennheiser HD650 Impressions Thread - Page 526

post #7876 of 36866
Quote:
Originally Posted by widdyjudas View Post


Exactly my thinking! I dont want to have too many cans, waste of money and not enough space.
I just want 1 can for gaming and music 50-50.
Since you are gaming with it, can you describe the soundsStage and detail imaging? For copetitive use? Fun use?

Detail is great across the board, but not harsh because of the signature/temperament of the HD650s. Staging probably isn't as big as some other cans, but it's plenty big enough to give solid positioning information. I was using it in ME3 multiplayer and finding myself turning towards sounds before I even realised what I was doing - very lifelike and realistic imaging.

 

I've found something interesting on Borderlands 2 though which is that sounds which should be in front seem to come from behnid (or vice versa - can't remember). Pretty sure this is in the game's 2 channel sound output so not an HD650 issue, but need to test with other cans to confirm.

 

Go with the HD650s - they're so perfect for music and really good for gaming, plus they're generally super comfortable and non-fatiguing no matter what you're doing.

post #7877 of 36866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loquah View Post

Detail is great across the board, but not harsh because of the signature/temperament of the HD650s. Staging probably isn't as big as some other cans, but it's plenty big enough to give solid positioning information. I was using it in ME3 multiplayer and finding myself turning towards sounds before I even realised what I was doing - very lifelike and realistic imaging.

 

I've found something interesting on Borderlands 2 though which is that sounds which should be in front seem to come from behnid (or vice versa - can't remember). Pretty sure this is in the game's 2 channel sound output so not an HD650 issue, but need to test with other cans to confirm.

 

Go with the HD650s - they're so perfect for music and really good for gaming, plus they're generally super comfortable and non-fatiguing no matter what you're doing.


Now that is the most helping reply I got for soundstage. However, now I just got the fiio e17 until I can spare some cash to buy better amp. Will it worsen the soundstage and imaging by a lot?

post #7878 of 36866

The e17 doesn't do a whole lot for soundstage particularly on the 650. But the e17 is pretty hot right now, throw it up for sale and get most of your money back!!

post #7879 of 36866
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTCG View Post

The e17 doesn't do a whole lot for soundstage particularly on the 650. But the e17 is pretty hot right now, throw it up for sale and get most of your money back!!

I'll keep the E17 for now. I can't get much from selling it, since its already cheap. I might be leaning towards 650 now. But we will see next month, after I test the beyer 990.


Edited by widdyjudas - 9/27/12 at 4:21am
post #7880 of 36866

Hey, best of luck. If you are worried about gaming with the hd650, don't be. 

 

1. I gamed for a few hours on the 650 and it's only beat by a small margin by the dt900.

 

2. The hd650 beats the dt990 by a clear margin with music. Not even close IMO

 

gL!!

post #7881 of 36866
Quote:
Originally Posted by widdyjudas View Post


so the 990 has more details then. How about soundstage compared to 990pros?

Not necessarilly more detail, but the detail is presented differently.  A lot more forward with the highs and a MUCH brighter presentation.

 

The problem with the DT990s for gaming is the midrange.  The atmospherics of the HD650 is more substantial.  A suprising amount of the sound in games occurs at the midrange, and that is the bread and butter of the HD650s.  The DT990 has a nice big sound stage, but the mids are recessed, which I think adversely affects how they sound for games.

 

I'm not a huge gamer, but I do still pick up a game or two every now and then, and I definitely plug in my HD650s for gaming.


Edited by Eargasmo - 9/27/12 at 5:32am
post #7882 of 36866
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTCG View Post

Hey, best of luck. If you are worried about gaming with the hd650, don't be. 

 

1. I gamed for a few hours on the 650 and it's only beat by a small margin by the dt900.

 

2. The hd650 beats the dt990 by a clear margin with music. Not even close IMO

 

gL!!


Thanks. I will post the picture of the cans later if I have decided it.

post #7883 of 36866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eargasmo View Post

Not necessarilly more detail, but the detail is presented differently.  A lot more forward with the highs and a MUCH brighter presentation.

 

The problem with the DT990s for gaming is the midrange.  The atmospherics of the HD650 is more substantial.  A suprising amount of the sound in games occurs at the midrange, and that is the bread and butter of the HD650s.  The DT990 has a nice big sound stage, but the mids are recessed, which I think adversely affects how they sound for games.

 

I'm not a huge gamer, but I do still pick up a game or two every now and then, and I definitely plug in my HD650s for gaming.


Since you have both cans, can you show me details for competitive gaming like CS? Soundstage in particular...

post #7884 of 36866
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwusoccer View Post

I don't think the 990 would have more details than the 650. In terms of micro details, the 650 is actually very good. It just has recessed highs compared to the beyers.. However, i thought the hd650 was as good for gaming as the hd598. If you read mad lust envy's gaming headphone guide, the 598s actually scored higher than the dt 990. Also, i think the 650s are more enjoyable for gaming because they have a bit more bass than the 598s, so in my eyes its an improved gaming headphone. I never actually had them side to side to a/b them so don't take my word for it. And for the soundstage, i'm really not sure since i haven't heard the dt990s, sorry. One more thing, if you decide to go with the beyers, make sure you get the premium version because i've heard its a lot better for gaming than the pro version. If you need any more help or options head over to mad lust envy's gaming guide. He's tried a huge selection, and made an amazing thread specifically dedicated to reviewing headphones for gaming.

 

+1.  The HD650 often gets wrongly panned for lacking details.  This is not the case, it's an incredibly detailed headphone.  But what many people perceive to be detail at least in A/B comparisons is boosted treble.  This is because a lot of the fine harmonics that make up micro details in acoustic music happen to occur up in the 8-10kHz range.  Spiking the levels at that range then creates the impression, during brief listening comparisons that much more detail is being presented, when in fact all that's been done is boosting the volume specifically at the frequencies where a lot of fine detail exists. 

 

HD650 does quite the opposite and starts rolling off the treble before there, so the frequencies where a lot of those fine details exist are actually played quieter than the rest of the sounds.  To many this gives the impression that it's presenting less details, which is untrue.  All the detail is still there, just at a lower volume.  The advantage is that the 8-10kHz range also happens to be the source of most fatigue.  So the more you artifically boost the detail frequencies, you're also boosting the fatigue factor, which is the downfall of Beyer in the eyes of many HD650 fans.  Incidentally it's also the downfall of HD800 in the eyes of many HD650 fans.

 

The fun test if you have an EQ handy for "comparing detail" is to shunt off everything below 50Hz and everything about 4 kHz or so and compare the two headphones....you'll see that there's no detail lacking, it's just the presentation that may make it appear that way at first listen.

 

FWIW, Beyer does not spike those frequencies just for audiophile appeal and trickery, it does so because the DT880/990 is intended as a studio mixing can and a professional tool, and spiking those detail frequencies makes it easier to detect flaws in the mix while doing the editing.  A useful feature in a tool being used to identify flaws in a recording.  Audiophiles just happen to also easily buy into the "more detail" stream of thought.  rolleyes.gif

post #7885 of 36866
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post

 

+1.  The HD650 often gets wrongly panned for lacking details.  This is not the case, it's an incredibly detailed headphone.  But what many people perceive to be detail at least in A/B comparisons is boosted treble.  This is because a lot of the fine harmonics that make up micro details in acoustic music happen to occur up in the 8-10kHz range.  Spiking the levels at that range then creates the impression, during brief listening comparisons that much more detail is being presented, when in fact all that's been done is boosting the volume specifically at the frequencies where a lot of fine detail exists. 

 

HD650 does quite the opposite and starts rolling off the treble before there, so the frequencies where a lot of those fine details exist are actually played quieter than the rest of the sounds.  To many this gives the impression that it's presenting less details, which is untrue.  All the detail is still there, just at a lower volume.  The advantage is that the 8-10kHz range also happens to be the source of most fatigue.  So the more you artifically boost the detail frequencies, you're also boosting the fatigue factor, which is the downfall of Beyer in the eyes of many HD650 fans.  Incidentally it's also the downfall of HD800 in the eyes of many HD650 fans.

 

The fun test if you have an EQ handy for "comparing detail" is to shunt off everything below 50Hz and everything about 4 kHz or so and compare the two headphones....you'll see that there's no detail lacking, it's just the presentation that may make it appear that way at first listen.

 

FWIW, Beyer does not spike those frequencies just for audiophile appeal and trickery, it does so because the DT880/990 is intended as a studio mixing can and a professional tool, and spiking those detail frequencies makes it easier to detect flaws in the mix while doing the editing.  A useful feature in a tool being used to identify flaws in a recording.  Audiophiles just happen to also easily buy into the "more detail" stream of thought.  rolleyes.gif

 

This post accurately describes for me the transformation I've gone through having orignally hated my new HD650 vs the HD600 that I loved.  Having had a chance to sufficiently acclimate I now actually enjoy both headphones.  The 650 DOES indeed contain detail, but is extremely forgiving for less than stellar reproductions (whose flaws would be more apparent through the HD600).  I still do find, however, that the HD600's brightness gives it a noticeably wider (and airy-er) soundstage than the 650.  But, contrary to my previous posts, I'd be hard pressed to decide which of the two to part with.

post #7886 of 36866
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobJS View Post

 

This post accurately describes for me the transformation I've gone through having orignally hated my new HD650 vs the HD600 that I loved.  Having had a chance to sufficiently acclimate I now actually enjoy both headphones.  The 650 DOES indeed contain detail, but is extremely forgiving for less than stellar reproductions (whose flaws would be more apparent through the HD600).  I still do find, however, that the HD600's brightness gives it a noticeably wider (and airy-er) soundstage than the 650.  But, contrary to my previous posts, I'd be hard pressed to decide which of the two to part with.


So with the 650 over beyer 990, I will sacrifice soundstage over details. Gaming need is ok, since I rarely played competitive games. But for music need, I had enough crammed music with the M50. I hope that the issue is not that bad with M50...

post #7887 of 36866
Quote:
Originally Posted by widdyjudas View Post


 I rarely played competitive games.

Has nothing to do with competitive advantage, it's just how the mid-range and sound effects are delt with in games that makes the 650 a top-pick.

post #7888 of 36866
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post

HD650 does quite the opposite and starts rolling off the treble before there, so the frequencies where a lot of those fine details exist are actually played quieter than the rest of the sounds.  To many this gives the impression that it's presenting less details, which is untrue.  All the detail is still there, just at a lower volume.  The advantage is that the 8-10kHz range also happens to be the source of most fatigue.  So the more you artifically boost the detail frequencies, you're also boosting the fatigue factor, which is the downfall of Beyer in the eyes of many HD650 fans.  Incidentally it's also the downfall of HD800 in the eyes of many HD650 fans.

 

Not that I have a problem at all with the sound of the HD650, its my favorite headphone to date. My brother in law is always complaining about the lack of upper end. Would you say boosting it a little around the 8-10kHz range would help this problem for him or is it either a love it or hate type sound with the HD650?

post #7889 of 36866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heathen999 View Post

 

Not that I have a problem at all with the sound of the HD650, its my favorite headphone to date. My brother in law is always complaining about the lack of upper end. Would you say boosting it a little around the 8-10kHz range would help this problem for him or is it either a love it or hate type sound with the HD650?


Seriously. Tell him to get a HD600. I bet he'd love it if he likes the HD650. 

post #7890 of 36866

recabled 650s are pretty great. mogami quad did a great job of smoothening out the presentation at high vols. 

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