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Sennheiser HD650 Impressions Thread - Page 522

post #7816 of 36848
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericfarrell85 View Post

High end for their ability to scale the ladder. Using a Zana Deux as preamp into a B22 and I'm stunned by the speed and tactility of this headphone. It may even be too quick for Wes Montgomery's guitar! Just got my 007mk1, my last attempt to dethrone the HD650's for small ensemble jazz. If that doesn't do it then I'll give up completely. 

 

Hmm, I just can't seem to get what I want out of my HD650, particularly at the high end.  Am I not feeding it enough?  Losslesss from a PC through an AudioQuest Dragonfly DAC/amp ......  and THAT seems to sound better than if I put an Objective2 amp after the DF.

post #7817 of 36848
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobJS View Post

 

Hmm, I just can't seem to get what I want out of my HD650, particularly at the high end.  

That's because, quite possibly, you want the HD600. 

post #7818 of 36848

SIGNED!!!

 

These are a pair of headphones that anyone can enjoy listening to any type of music.  Just sit back and enjoy.  Their greatest strengths are their greatest weaknesses, but that is what my Beyers are for, to fill the niche left empty by the HD650s.

post #7819 of 36848
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericfarrell85 View Post

High end for their ability to scale the ladder. Using a Zana Deux as preamp into a B22 and I'm stunned by the speed and tactility of this headphone. It may even be too quick for Wes Montgomery's guitar! Just got my 007mk1, my last attempt to dethrone the HD650's for small ensemble jazz. If that doesn't do it then I'll give up completely. 

This is the secret of the HD650's! Nothing scales up to quality signal like they do.

post #7820 of 36848

I agree with this of course. As good as the B22 is, on its own or fed through a preamp, I still believe the Zana Deux represents the apogee of HD650 performance. There is no other headphone/amp (besides possibly AD2000/Zana) combination that I own or have heard that synergizes so perfectly. I would like to hear the CSP2+ though, particularly as preamp with my Taboo. 

post #7821 of 36848
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post

 

I don't think Tyll designed this latest one, but maybe had a small role in making it. Not sure. Does yours have the OPA2134? This one does..7 of them and not sure why. It has the same opamp as the Fiio E9 and Matrix M-Stage and I bet they couldn't sound any more different. It'd be interesting to know if the Micro I have sounds identical or close to the M-Stage. Maybe the M-Stage is far better, but I bought the Micro over it due to preferring US built amps and DACs. What's weird about the E9 is it sounds totally different than the Micro when using the HRT MSII. When I used the ODAC it's closer. My idea was that the Micro is just much more revealing of what's connected to it.

 

One thing i've noticed with this Micro and the stock power supply is that if I connect it to my Belkin home theater surge protector (with noise filtering etc) it severely degrades the sound. I could only detect the differences with my DJ100 and HD-580. It actually bloats the bass. I wonder how long it took me to realize this? I don't want to know. I read up on this and with a higher quality power supply (The Astrodyne) this might not occur. Right now I use it straight from the wall.

 

If there's any coloration at all, it may be very slightly warm. I don't think so though. I actually think the Airhead is probably more "musical" (think it has VERY slightly forward mids), but even then doesn't change any of my headphones. Even the HD-650 and 580 sounded good from it. I'm trying to figure out why the HRT MSII I had was such a bad match with my HD-600. Maybe it's too warm or dark. People have said this before and at first I didn't agree with it. Seemed to make my 580 too warm and yep, congested. Problem fixed with the ODAC though.

 

I've read a review recently claiming the Micro had a small soundstage. Maybe it is small compared to some other amps. I found it smaller than the E9 with MSII. I always had this weird belief that the E9 magically made the soundstage of my headphones larger than they should be. I don't know how this is possible, but it even increased the size of my KRK's soundstage. If I use my ODAC with both amps, it's quite similar. The soundstage of the Micro Amp varies with each source. Strangely enough the soundstage with the X-Fi Go Pro is huge with my Q701 and HD-598!

 

If the O2 makes the HD-650 boring and analytical, then i'd probably love it. For me to love the 650 I think that's what it will take. The ODAC didn't turn my Q701 into a snore fest, but I don't have the O2. I actually prefer the ODAC for the Q701 over the HRT MSII.

 

I'm quite a fan of the E9 (for the money). It doesn't seem to add much coloration to any of my headphones. I guess some may prefer a little more coloration. I have the E11 and really don't like it at all. Wish I had returned it. It's better than the E10 though. My problem with the E11 is that if I connect my HD-598 or DJ100 it makes the mids seem too laid back and more so than straight out of my Clip+. Seemed to suck the life right out of those headphones, but not as badly as the E10. The E9 actually loves the 598 and DJ100. Even despite the 10 ohm output. I really do wonder if the E9 is as uncolored as they say and as close to neutral as the O2. It's level of detail seems to be lacking a tad and doesn't seem all that revealing. I actually think the E9 is fine with the HD-650, but people seem to think this is just a bad idea. Not sure why...maybe it's the whole idea of driving a $500 headphone with a $120 amp! Doesn't bother me any, but I do think the Q701 and HD-650 deserve a very good amp.

 

I have an old Technics receiver I bought recently from 93. Has a 330 ohm(!) impedance output. It'll be amusing to see what that does to the HD-650 or my HD-580. I also just found out my Micro has an output impedance of 0.5 ohm. Sounds good to me! I don't know why, but not even my Q701 sounded dramatically different even when connected to this receiver. Yet people cry about the Q701 being used with a 10 ohm output amp. I also have a recent Onkyo I can try.

 

BTW I think Tyll is reviewing the Headroom Portable Micro Amp soon. I'd like to bribe him to review the non-portable version too. It'll be interesting to see his measurements and a possible comparison to the O2.

 

When I buy the HD-650 later this year i'll compare it with the Micro and ODAC to O2+ODAC. Maybe they'll sound identical biggrin.gif I know this sounds bad, but I kind of view the Micro as an E9 on steroids. Ok, yet half the size..

Both have been good for me with nearly every headphone. That's really what i'm looking for in an amp. It'll be weird comparing the O2 to the Micro Amp and E9. Kind of not very fair!

 

Yeah, it's the 2134, but I suspect the opamp isn't the key to the overall sound.  They definitely did a major redesign of it after the first generation, but I did have the desktop upgrade board.  But I would be surprised if the two sounded all that similar really.  I do dislike the closed in sound of Headroom at large...it's just the way they build it (or used to anyway) and it doesn't agree with me.  And the old ones definitely had warmth in the extreme....again, probably similar to Asgard in that sense, and I'm betting I don't like 650 + Micro for the same reasons you don't like 650 + Asgard.  I can't say the Micro is not revealing, even the old version, simply that it doesn't suit my tastes with HD650.  I actually found it far more pleasing for HE-400.  Interesting what you say about the surge protector....I have it on a Tripp Lite HT filter/protector...wonder if it could be a similar issue that affected the mids of the 650? That kind of thing almost makes me wonder if power cords do matter rolleyes.gif

 

I don't have ODAC, but I can say that the old Micro sounds in no way similar (at all) to the O2.  Whether the new Micro does or not, that will be interesting.  But otherwise, if you need neutral and analytical for HD650, O2's your ticket.  I'm consistently shocked at just how analytical HD650 can be on that thing...I wouldn't have thought so otherwise.

 

Micro half the size of an E9?  Aren't they roughly the same size, just proportioned differently? confused_face_2.gif

 

You're not in the minority for thinking the 650/701 needs a good amp...remember the days when half the folks around here had $10k rigs to power that combo? wink.gif

 

And yes, at least the prior generation of Headroom gear (the Tyll years) did have famously small soundstage.  I often commented that the "right between your ears" slogan was more like a statement.  It may change with source, but it was simply small.  I can not however comment on the newer redesigns, I haven't heard any of them. 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xzobinx View Post

Thanks for your input. One friend of mine after some experiment with phone the ath w3000 had concluded that the art of coloration is not just about bumping the FR but also lie in other factor such as decay. Maybe the romance of hd 650 is just hard to capture. How's about the he400 ? I think that's one should be the easier since they come from the same family 

 

I haven't had chance to listen to a well built 2-channel B22 let alone the 4 channel so I can't comment on that but compare the soloist to the 160D, the soloist is better in almost every aspects.I would like to listen to the b22 one day through. 

 

Definitely true....the attack, decay, (transient response) etc all goes into it.  And it would be very difficult to attempt reproducing that.  I think EQ'ing the FR to be 650-like is easy, but it still won't have the same attack and charm.  HD650 has an air that a planar couldn't imitate (and the inverse is also true.)  HD650 is just one of the more unique sounding sets out there.  It has a presentation all its own, and is polarizing for the same reason.

 

HE-400...yeah, I think that would be a lot easier to duplicate, though you'd need to do it parametrically.  A GEQ couldn't duplicate some of the more unusual spikes in the HE-400 signature.   There's a lot in common between the two out of the box.  A tilt toward a darker, slightly more v'd sound and it should get most of the way there.  HE-400 is special, but it's biggest brother can certainly duplicate it, and do so better, if configured to do so.  But there's no "dynamic driver air" to try to duplicate in the attack. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by longbowbbs View Post

This is the secret of the HD650's! Nothing scales up to quality signal like they do.

 

Truth!

post #7822 of 36848

Hi guys,

 

Im the kind of guy who enjoys a very exciting headphone, so I'm probably getting a grado. However, I really enjoy a smooth, relaxed, non fatiguing listen when I'm listening to music. To you think the HD650 is a good compliment to a grado? I listen to rock and metal, which I will use the grados for of course, and I also listen to a lot of pop and R&B. Do you think the HD650 would be good for pop (maroon 5, train, etc.) and R&B? One thing that I've read about the hd650 is that the mids and highs are overshadowed by the bass and other frequencies, so is are the mids recessed? Thats something I want to avoid, I hate recessed mids. What genres do you think the HD650 is best at? Do you think the HD600 would be a better can for me (I don't want recessed mids!)?

post #7823 of 36848

The mids are definitely not recessed with the hd650.

post #7824 of 36848
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarek99 View Post

The mids are definitely not recessed with the hd650.

thats good to hear, but why do people say they are overshadowed by other frequencies and that they don't shine?

post #7825 of 36848

I think the HD 650s are a great match for those styles.

post #7826 of 36848
Quote:
Originally Posted by olddtfan View Post

I think the HD 650s are a great match for those styles.

better for those styles than the hd600 (I you've heard it)?

 

Does anyone here know a place in New York that I could try out the HD650? 

post #7827 of 36848

@daniel521, you should seriously consider something like a Beyerdynamic 880. I have the 650, and they are a very nice headphone, but if you want an exciting sound, you may need to look past the 650. It is very personal of course, but I don't think many would describe the 650 as exciting. Engaging, relaxing, musical, easy to love are things many seem to say about the 650, but not often are they described as exciting. I'm a former Grado person, about three years with the Grado sound, and it certainly is exciting, but truthfully over time I found myself really needing a break from being on the musical edge so to speak. I owned a set of Grado HF2s and the DT 880s at the same time for about 6 months. In that time the 880s won me over as they offered much of the excitment of the Grado sound, but with what in my opinion is less edge and fatigue factor. I would say you would find the 880s to be a nice compliment with the 650s, I know I certainly do. Just a thought, good luck with your search.


Edited by Sonic Defender - 9/20/12 at 4:50pm
post #7828 of 36848
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericfarrell85 View Post

I agree with this of course. As good as the B22 is, on its own or fed through a preamp, I still believe the Zana Deux represents the apogee of HD650 performance. There is no other headphone/amp (besides possibly AD2000/Zana) combination that I own or have heard that synergizes so perfectly. I would like to hear the CSP2+ though, particularly as preamp with my Taboo. 

 

I sadly forget the head-fi members handle, but I know he is a very respected poster who is an industry representative of Headphones.com. I was reading a thread of his and eventually the HD 650 was brought up and this Headphones representative had been using the 650 for years and in his capacity as both an enthusiast, and a professional had listened to the 650s with many different amps and his personal choice was the SPL Auditor. Now of course this is just an opinion, like yours on the Zana Deux, and I'm sure others will have their own favorites as well. I wish I had a more varied experience with the 650s myself, but speaking from experience with the Auditor it is a stunning combination. I would love to hear another sound signature such as the Zana, or the B22. Perhaps I'll be so lucky eventually. Cheers.

post #7829 of 36848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Defender View Post

@daniel521, you should seriously consider something like a Beyerdynamic 880. I have the 650, and they are a very nice headphone, but if you want an exciting sound, you may need to look past the 650. It is very personal of course, but I don't think many would describe the 650 as exciting. Engaging, relaxing, musical, easy to love are things many seem to say about the 650, but not often are they described as exciting. I'm a former Grado person, about three years with the Grado sound, and it certainly is exciting, but truthfully over time I found myself really needing a break from being on the musical edge so to speak. I owned a set of Grado HF2s and the DT 880s at the same time for about 6 months. In that time the 880s won me over as they offered much of the excitment of the Grado sound, but with what in my opinion is less edge and fatigue factor. I would say you would find the 880s to be a nice compliment with the 650s, I know I certainly do. Just a thought, good luck with your search.

The problem is that I prefer I smoother sound, and the dt880 and grado's are know to have a harsh treble. I'm also looking at the alessandro models which are said to be an exciting but non fatiguing headphone. Thanks for the advice ;) 

post #7830 of 36848

I am quite sensitive to treble, and have little love for harsh treble and unless I have a very different definition of harsh, the 880 does not have harsh treble. The HF2 was considered to have some of the better portrayed highs for Grados, sounds like the MS1 which a fellow head-fier brought over to my home for a listening session. When he heard the HF2 he couldn't believe how similar to the MS1 it was. The 880 in my opinion has better treble than the HF2, detailed enough to be revealing, but not harsh. I listen to music quite loud, and if the treble is harsh, I can't bear it for long. The 880 is not soft of course, but in my view (and of course many other peoples view) it balances well the opposing goals of detail and listenability. Certainly hear some for yourself, don't just believe that they are harsh because others say they are. There are many posters here who think the 650s are not very good, and yet many would differ. Only your ears will know. If your in New York you are sure to find a store that carries both Beyerdynamic and Sennheiser, give them both a good listen with as many genres as you can.

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