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Sennheiser HD650 Impressions Thread - Page 521

post #7801 of 36844

one of the best solid stage under 2k for hd 650 to my ears along with the phonitor, v200. It offers really great dynamic, instrument separation and punchy bass probably the punchiest bass I have ever heard from hd 650. However it trades off some of the smoothness which I desire. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amuro_Rey View Post

Do you think a combination of Burson Soloist and HD650 can be a good choice ?
Tks
post #7802 of 36844
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post

Does the HD-650 really have less upper bass emphasis than the HD-600? Seems impossible..maybe i'm more bothered by upper bass than mid-bass humps.

Something about the HD-600 holds it back for me. On my likes and dislikes list, the 600 and 650 are split for me on issues i've had with them. I'm just too picky and a semi treble head perhaps.

Strangely I did prefer the HD-650 over the HD-600 for most of my music, especially female vocals.

 

When I sell my house i'm getting another HD-650. Maybe Sennheiser will get rid of this MAP nonsense by Christmas so I can get a pair for around $350. normal_smile%20.gif

 

Still can't figure out why the HD-650 on some graphs seems to measure flatter than the HD-600 in the bass/mids range.

You're a big AKG 70x fan.  You'd have to be a treble head! biggrin.gif (Not that I dislike my K702, mind you....)

 

What are you driving the HD650 with?  If you say the Micro, I'll slap you tongue_smile.gif

post #7803 of 36844

Here you are, my favourite writer. I thought you decide to take a break with the hd 650 in flavour of the he-6 rolleyes.gif

Can you give please some of your opinions regard of this question?

Quote:

Originally Posted by xzobinx View Post

interesting point, Mr Crazy biggrin.gif

I remember someone mentioned before that the he-6 responds so well with eq to the point that with the right tweaking you can have it mimic the sig of Grado or he 400/500. 

I haven't had a chance to listen to fully powered he-6 or eq it a lot. Have you successful tried to eq it mimic the sound of he400 and hd 650 ? 

The hd 650 responds well with amp changing but not so much with eq and I don't like the idea to own several headphones since no matter how much I love them I only have a pair of ears and a small wallet frown.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post

You're a big AKG 70x fan.  You'd have to be a treble head! biggrin.gif (Not that I dislike my K702, mind you....)

 

What are you driving the HD650 with?  If you say the Micro, I'll slap you tongue_smile.gif

post #7804 of 36844
Quote:
Originally Posted by xzobinx View Post

one of the best solid stage under 2k for hd 650 to my ears along with the phonitor, v200. It offers really great dynamic, instrument separation and punchy bass probably the punchiest bass I have ever heard from hd 650. However it trades off some of the smoothness which I desire. 

 

 

I'll take my 4-channel fully balanced B22 over the phonitor and the V200 any day (heard them both).  I have not heard the soloist yet but I did have the 160D.  The B22 take the 650s to a new level.

post #7805 of 36844
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post

You're a big AKG 70x fan.  You'd have to be a treble head! biggrin.gif (Not that I dislike my K702, mind you....)

 

What are you driving the HD650 with?  If you say the Micro, I'll slap you tongue_smile.gif

 

I'm not a big K702 fan and have always preferred the K601. The Q701 really IMO is not for treble heads. It doesn't have tons of treble.

The only time the treble is bothersome is when I'm listening to very poor recordings, where it sounds like the treble and upper mids were cranked up in the studio.

 

I think it's very obvious that the versions of the Micro Amp we have are total opposites. The one I have is the most transparent and uncolored amp i've ever heard. You know recently I was complaining how bad it was with the HD-598 and HD-600 and how it had such a small soundstage with the Q701. Well you know what? I was describing my HRT DAC. Doh! Was 100% NOT the amp. I've come to the conclusion that the amp i'm using is basically adding zero coloration to the sound of any of my headphones. If so, it's so small I can't tell any difference. I wish I could say the same about the Asgard. Now that's a nice amp for the HD-600, but not for the AKGs.

 

What's interesting is that on my E9 it was harder to "hear" the MSII I had. With the Micro it's stupid easy. I replaced the MSII with the ODAC and all my "synergy" problems with the HD-598/600 went away. The sound of my Micro varies with what's connected to it. If I connect a Clip+ to it, it sounds like a Clip+..obviously with some slight improvements. I've found that the MSII is great for the Q701, but it seems too warm for my 598/600. Sounds like poop with my DJ100 and I never thought about blaming my DAC for this, but blamed my amp for a few months. Man was I ever wrong!

 

It makes sense now why I loved the HD-650 the most from the Micro Amp. I'm willing to bet money that the Micro Amp and O2 would be quite similar. I've only considered the O2 just to replace the E9 and to compare it to the Micro Amp.

 

The Headroom Micro and ODAC is pretty impressive. Even better is the AKG Q701 on this setup. Strangely it doesn't make it any thinner or analytical. I mean basically everything on it sounds like it's supposed to sound.

 

The last time I used the HD-650 I was only using full sized CD players. There's not a massive difference between a good one and a computer DAC, but that may have held back the HD-650 somewhat. I still don't know if the HD-650 is my type of sound, but it's worth a try. By the time i'll get it i'll be able to compare my Micro to the O2. Maybe do a review and compare them normal_smile%20.gif

 

Note: this Micro can basically drive anything. K400, K501, HD-800 and anything I can throw at it. Even the DT-880 600ohm with ease. The DT-700 600 ohm (I had the dead neutral version!!) was especially good. With my setup I'm no longer worried about synergy. It all sounds good. If I don't like the sound, it's the headphone I don't like.

 

When I last tried the HD-650 I was using the Asgard. Didn't like it with the 650, but loved it with the HD-600. I upgraded the Asgard to the Micro for the 650 and found that with that amp I liked it even more. I think with the 650 I'd probably prefer it out of the E9 rather than the Asgard. I imagine the E9 is much more neutral, but maybe not? If I ever love the 650 it will have to be out of a very neutral setup.


Edited by tdockweiler - 9/17/12 at 11:28am
post #7806 of 36844

If two people who bought a new pair of HD650 and have different impression about burn in,taking all variable in consideration,the subjectiveness in any person different hearing still valid for both of them.

Then superficially speaking ,if burn in really exist taking in account the only basic reason of the drivers needing obviously some time to accomodate itself,there should be not reason an amp or dac should influencing burn in,as long the headphone itself is being fed by any source.

post #7807 of 36844
Quote:
Originally Posted by antberg View Post

If two people who bought a new pair of HD650 and have different impression about burn in,taking all variable in consideration,the subjectiveness in any person different hearing still valid for both of them.

Then superficially speaking ,if burn in really exist taking in account the only basic reason of the drivers needing obviously some time to accomodate itself,there should be not reason an amp or dac should influencing burn in,as long the headphone itself is being fed by any source.

 

Burn in?? 

 

I'm not sure how I feel on this.  Each company of either headphones or DACs / AMPs has their own burn in process - correct?  I mean, the have the DACs/ AMPs on the beach for hours on in burning in.  Same with Headphones.

 

How much burning in do we "THINK" we are really doing?

post #7808 of 36844
Quote:
Originally Posted by xzobinx View Post

Here you are, my favourite writer. I thought you decide to take a break with the hd 650 in flavour of the he-6 rolleyes.gif

Can you give please some of your opinions regard of this question?

Quote:

Originally Posted by xzobinx View Post

interesting point, Mr Crazy biggrin.gif

I remember someone mentioned before that the he-6 responds so well with eq to the point that with the right tweaking you can have it mimic the sig of Grado or he 400/500. 

I haven't had a chance to listen to fully powered he-6 or eq it a lot. Have you successful tried to eq it mimic the sound of he400 and hd 650 ? 

The hd 650 responds well with amp changing but not so much with eq and I don't like the idea to own several headphones since no matter how much I love them I only have a pair of ears and a small wallet frown.gif

 

LOL, thanks! Eh, a short break, yes.  The HD650's haven't gone anywhere, and are likely to get a DAC upgrade courtesy of the HE-6 rig, as a result biggrin.gif   In the long-term the HE-400 will likely take a back seat more than he HD650s....I like the HD650s basically as much as the HE-6 for different reasons.  The HE-6 may win for overall head-time now, but I'm not letting HD650 far from my headphone stand any time soon despite that wink_face.gif

 

HD650 responds fairly OK to EQ IMO, as long as you stay away from anything below 40Hz and above 8kHz.  It responds less in those areas where the frequency dropoffs are part of the diaphragm design and not just voicing.  HE-6 of course responds fantastically to EQ. I haven't played with trying to mimic other headphone's responses though....that was Magick Man's project and he didn't give me his parametric EQ settings he used to imitate any other cans.  I tried! biggrin.gif

 

Technicaly HD650 should be easy to do since it's pretty flat...a steep rolloff at the edges, a hump at the midbass and a good sized upside down smile along the mids should get mostly there.  I played with tone controls on my amp with HE-6 and did get a pseudo-HD650 effect, but it wasn't well dialed.  Not to metion HD650 has fairly unique snappy transients for that dynamic driver "air" effect that is not native to planars.  IMO you can imitate HD650 FR, but duplicating it's attack would be impossible.

post #7809 of 36844

The 650's simply scale up with the quality of signal they are given. They are a great set of cans because as you upgrade everything around them they can move up as well. I love my HD650's!

post #7810 of 36844
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

Burn in?? 

I'm not sure how I feel on this.  Each company of either headphones or DACs / AMPs has their own burn in process - correct?  I mean, the have the DACs/ AMPs on the beach for hours on in burning in.  Same with Headphones.

How much burning in do we "THINK" we are really doing?
Depends on the company your buying from. Sennheiser claims their headphones require zero "break in" while Ultrasone will tell you 150 hours are needed. I've heard as much as 1500 being needed for the Ed 10s which is ridiculous.
I myself believe some "break in" is necessary only as a settling in process. But to just allow my equipment to run without me listening? I don't get it.
Also using white noise, brown noise, etc...? I'd rather my equipment settles in to what I enjoy listening to.
I prefer to think of my gear as a new car. You gotta take it easy for a while before you start ripping on the gear.
I usually work my way up to full listening sessions when I get new headphones. This is just my opinion though.
post #7811 of 36844
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post

 

I'm not a big K702 fan and have always preferred the K601. The Q701 really IMO is not for treble heads. It doesn't have tons of treble.

The only time the treble is bothersome is when I'm listening to very poor recordings, where it sounds like the treble and upper mids were cranked up in the studio.

 

I think it's very obvious that the versions of the Micro Amp we have are total opposites. The one I have is the most transparent and uncolored amp i've ever heard. You know recently I was complaining how bad it was with the HD-598 and HD-600 and how it had such a small soundstage with the Q701. Well you know what? I was describing my HRT DAC. Doh! Was 100% NOT the amp. I've come to the conclusion that the amp i'm using is basically adding zero coloration to the sound of any of my headphones. If so, it's so small I can't tell any difference. I wish I could say the same about the Asgard. Now that's a nice amp for the HD-600, but not for the AKGs.

 

What's interesting is that on my E9 it was harder to "hear" the MSII I had. With the Micro it's stupid easy. I replaced the MSII with the ODAC and all my "synergy" problems with the HD-598/600 went away. The sound of my Micro varies with what's connected to it. If I connect a Clip+ to it, it sounds like a Clip+..obviously with some slight improvements. I've found that the MSII is great for the Q701, but it seems too warm for my 598/600. Sounds like poop with my DJ100 and I never thought about blaming my DAC for this, but blamed my amp for a few months. Man was I ever wrong!

 

It makes sense now why I loved the HD-650 the most from the Micro Amp. I'm willing to bet money that the Micro Amp and O2 would be quite similar. I've only considered the O2 just to replace the E9 and to compare it to the Micro Amp.

 

The Headroom Micro and ODAC is pretty impressive. Even better is the AKG Q701 on this setup. Strangely it doesn't make it any thinner or analytical. I mean basically everything on it sounds like it's supposed to sound.

 

The last time I used the HD-650 I was only using full sized CD players. There's not a massive difference between a good one and a computer DAC, but that may have held back the HD-650 somewhat. I still don't know if the HD-650 is my type of sound, but it's worth a try. By the time i'll get it i'll be able to compare my Micro to the O2. Maybe do a review and compare them normal_smile%20.gif

 

Note: this Micro can basically drive anything. K400, K501, HD-800 and anything I can throw at it. Even the DT-880 600ohm with ease. The DT-700 600 ohm (I had the dead neutral version!!) was especially good. With my setup I'm no longer worried about synergy. It all sounds good. If I don't like the sound, it's the headphone I don't like.

 

When I last tried the HD-650 I was using the Asgard. Didn't like it with the 650, but loved it with the HD-600. I upgraded the Asgard to the Micro for the 650 and found that with that amp I liked it even more. I think with the 650 I'd probably prefer it out of the E9 rather than the Asgard. I imagine the E9 is much more neutral, but maybe not? If I ever love the 650 it will have to be out of a very neutral setup.

 

 

The thing that surprises me is that my Micro, the older one, is one of the Tyll designs.  I feel kind of guilty being down on it.  Though I think most of it has to do with power filtering...the wall wart just doesn't cut it and I never did get the external power supply.  But for the money, it should have had a better supply built in. All that said, I do feel it's a very fine amplifier, the coloration of those older models was just not suited to my tastes specifically with HD650, and I think beyond my tastes it just matched very poorly resulting in midrange congestion.  Part of that is due to the Headroom closed-in soundstage which the HD650 needs none of.  I also was using a Cardas (gray) cable at the time,  so it may have been warm+warm+warm+warm.

 

IMO, the O2 sounds better than the old Micro with HD650, but it makes the HD650 s horribly boringly analytical so as to be unpleasant.  It impresses me that it canbe so analytical, it's a testament to the accuracy of the HD650.  but I'd like a bit more coloration than that for my listening.  Don't get me wrong, the performance is good, but it's just the flavor there that doesn't suit me.  You may like it though. So far my two favorite HD650 amps are Lyr and the headphone out of my Marantz PM6004, though that does make it a bit midbass-heavy without toning the bass down. My Denon 2310ci output I rank as "decent but not preferred."  I have a feeling the Asgard and the OLD Micro may have a lot in common.  Tyll and Jason come from the same School of Amp Design.  If it is true that old Micro is similar to Asgard, and if it is true that E9 is similar to E11, then yes, I preferred E11 to old Micro, and you may also prefer E9 to Asgard with HD650.  For you, O2 may be a good bet too!

post #7812 of 36844
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post

 

 

The thing that surprises me is that my Micro, the older one, is one of the Tyll designs.  I feel kind of guilty being down on it.  Though I think most of it has to do with power filtering...the wall wart just doesn't cut it and I never did get the external power supply.  But for the money, it should have had a better supply built in. All that said, I do feel it's a very fine amplifier, the coloration of those older models was just not suited to my tastes specifically with HD650, and I think beyond my tastes it just matched very poorly resulting in midrange congestion.  Part of that is due to the Headroom closed-in soundstage which the HD650 needs none of.  I also was using a Cardas (gray) cable at the time,  so it may have been warm+warm+warm+warm.

 

IMO, the O2 sounds better than the old Micro with HD650, but it makes the HD650 s horribly boringly analytical so as to be unpleasant.  It impresses me that it canbe so analytical, it's a testament to the accuracy of the HD650.  but I'd like a bit more coloration than that for my listening.  Don't get me wrong, the performance is good, but it's just the flavor there that doesn't suit me.  You may like it though. So far my two favorite HD650 amps are Lyr and the headphone out of my Marantz PM6004, though that does make it a bit midbass-heavy without toning the bass down. My Denon 2310ci output I rank as "decent but not preferred."  I have a feeling the Asgard and the OLD Micro may have a lot in common.  Tyll and Jason come from the same School of Amp Design.  If it is true that old Micro is similar to Asgard, and if it is true that E9 is similar to E11, then yes, I preferred E11 to old Micro, and you may also prefer E9 to Asgard with HD650.  For you, O2 may be a good bet too!

 

I don't think Tyll designed this latest one, but maybe had a small role in making it. Not sure. Does yours have the OPA2134? This one does..7 of them and not sure why. It has the same opamp as the Fiio E9 and Matrix M-Stage and I bet they couldn't sound any more different. It'd be interesting to know if the Micro I have sounds identical or close to the M-Stage. Maybe the M-Stage is far better, but I bought the Micro over it due to preferring US built amps and DACs. What's weird about the E9 is it sounds totally different than the Micro when using the HRT MSII. When I used the ODAC it's closer. My idea was that the Micro is just much more revealing of what's connected to it.

 

One thing i've noticed with this Micro and the stock power supply is that if I connect it to my Belkin home theater surge protector (with noise filtering etc) it severely degrades the sound. I could only detect the differences with my DJ100 and HD-580. It actually bloats the bass. I wonder how long it took me to realize this? I don't want to know. I read up on this and with a higher quality power supply (The Astrodyne) this might not occur. Right now I use it straight from the wall.

 

If there's any coloration at all, it may be very slightly warm. I don't think so though. I actually think the Airhead is probably more "musical" (think it has VERY slightly forward mids), but even then doesn't change any of my headphones. Even the HD-650 and 580 sounded good from it. I'm trying to figure out why the HRT MSII I had was such a bad match with my HD-600. Maybe it's too warm or dark. People have said this before and at first I didn't agree with it. Seemed to make my 580 too warm and yep, congested. Problem fixed with the ODAC though.

 

I've read a review recently claiming the Micro had a small soundstage. Maybe it is small compared to some other amps. I found it smaller than the E9 with MSII. I always had this weird belief that the E9 magically made the soundstage of my headphones larger than they should be. I don't know how this is possible, but it even increased the size of my KRK's soundstage. If I use my ODAC with both amps, it's quite similar. The soundstage of the Micro Amp varies with each source. Strangely enough the soundstage with the X-Fi Go Pro is huge with my Q701 and HD-598!

 

If the O2 makes the HD-650 boring and analytical, then i'd probably love it. For me to love the 650 I think that's what it will take. The ODAC didn't turn my Q701 into a snore fest, but I don't have the O2. I actually prefer the ODAC for the Q701 over the HRT MSII.

 

I'm quite a fan of the E9 (for the money). It doesn't seem to add much coloration to any of my headphones. I guess some may prefer a little more coloration. I have the E11 and really don't like it at all. Wish I had returned it. It's better than the E10 though. My problem with the E11 is that if I connect my HD-598 or DJ100 it makes the mids seem too laid back and more so than straight out of my Clip+. Seemed to suck the life right out of those headphones, but not as badly as the E10. The E9 actually loves the 598 and DJ100. Even despite the 10 ohm output. I really do wonder if the E9 is as uncolored as they say and as close to neutral as the O2. It's level of detail seems to be lacking a tad and doesn't seem all that revealing. I actually think the E9 is fine with the HD-650, but people seem to think this is just a bad idea. Not sure why...maybe it's the whole idea of driving a $500 headphone with a $120 amp! Doesn't bother me any, but I do think the Q701 and HD-650 deserve a very good amp.

 

I have an old Technics receiver I bought recently from 93. Has a 330 ohm(!) impedance output. It'll be amusing to see what that does to the HD-650 or my HD-580. I also just found out my Micro has an output impedance of 0.5 ohm. Sounds good to me! I don't know why, but not even my Q701 sounded dramatically different even when connected to this receiver. Yet people cry about the Q701 being used with a 10 ohm output amp. I also have a recent Onkyo I can try.

 

BTW I think Tyll is reviewing the Headroom Portable Micro Amp soon. I'd like to bribe him to review the non-portable version too. It'll be interesting to see his measurements and a possible comparison to the O2.

 

When I buy the HD-650 later this year i'll compare it with the Micro and ODAC to O2+ODAC. Maybe they'll sound identical biggrin.gif I know this sounds bad, but I kind of view the Micro as an E9 on steroids. Ok, yet half the size..

Both have been good for me with nearly every headphone. That's really what i'm looking for in an amp. It'll be weird comparing the O2 to the Micro Amp and E9. Kind of not very fair!


Edited by tdockweiler - 9/18/12 at 12:24pm
post #7813 of 36844

Thanks for your input. One friend of mine after some experiment with phone the ath w3000 had concluded that the art of coloration is not just about bumping the FR but also lie in other factor such as decay. Maybe the romance of hd 650 is just hard to capture. How's about the he400 ? I think that's one should be the easier since they come from the same family 

Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

LOL, thanks! Eh, a short break, yes.  The HD650's haven't gone anywhere, and are likely to get a DAC upgrade courtesy of the HE-6 rig, as a result biggrin.gif   In the long-term the HE-400 will likely take a back seat more than he HD650s....I like the HD650s basically as much as the HE-6 for different reasons.  The HE-6 may win for overall head-time now, but I'm not letting HD650 far from my headphone stand any time soon despite that wink_face.gif

 

HD650 responds fairly OK to EQ IMO, as long as you stay away from anything below 40Hz and above 8kHz.  It responds less in those areas where the frequency dropoffs are part of the diaphragm design and not just voicing.  HE-6 of course responds fantastically to EQ. I haven't played with trying to mimic other headphone's responses though....that was Magick Man's project and he didn't give me his parametric EQ settings he used to imitate any other cans.  I tried! biggrin.gif

 

Technicaly HD650 should be easy to do since it's pretty flat...a steep rolloff at the edges, a hump at the midbass and a good sized upside down smile along the mids should get mostly there.  I played with tone controls on my amp with HE-6 and did get a pseudo-HD650 effect, but it wasn't well dialed.  Not to metion HD650 has fairly unique snappy transients for that dynamic driver "air" effect that is not native to planars.  IMO you can imitate HD650 FR, but duplicating it's attack would be impossible.

 

 

 

I haven't had chance to listen to a well built 2-channel B22 let alone the 4 channel so I can't comment on that but compare the soloist to the 160D, the soloist is better in almost every aspects.I would like to listen to the b22 one day through. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 

 

I'll take my 4-channel fully balanced B22 over the phonitor and the V200 any day (heard them both).  I have not heard the soloist yet but I did have the 160D.  The B22 take the 650s to a new level.

 

 


Edited by xzobinx - 9/19/12 at 9:20am
post #7814 of 36844

please friends help me,i have problem with hd650

http://www.head-fi.org/t/628152/sennheiser-hd650-problem-where-is-serial

post #7815 of 36844

High end for their ability to scale the ladder. Using a Zana Deux as preamp into a B22 and I'm stunned by the speed and tactility of this headphone. It may even be too quick for Wes Montgomery's guitar! Just got my 007mk1, my last attempt to dethrone the HD650's for small ensemble jazz. If that doesn't do it then I'll give up completely. 

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