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Sennheiser HD650 Impressions Thread - Page 506

post #7576 of 37411
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoEars View Post

But then tell me - In you graphs the HE-500 has less distorsion than the HE-400. Wouldn't this make it better at reproducing texture faithfully? Or am I missing something?

 

You are.  The HE-400 has less distortion than the HE-500 in the bass frequencies in the graph.  Most notably 3rd harmonic.

 

 

As for the two posts above: you guys are thinking amplifier sense.  Harmonic distortion and decay time can affect how deep a headphone can resolve into a recording.  Surely you don't think that a pair of apple buds, nearing 100% thd+N, has as clean and black of a background as a pair of Sennhesier HD800.

post #7577 of 37411
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

You're putting too much stock in the measurements.  It's not enough of a problem that anybody who's heard them stays away from them because of it.  


HE-500 does boast better measurements, but you really like your bass, so HE-400 might be the better option.  HE-400 actually has less bass distortion than the HE-500.

I couldn't stand them compared to the HD650
post #7578 of 37411
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

 

You are.  The HE-400 has less distortion than the HE-500 in the bass frequencies in the graph.  Most notably 3rd harmonic.

 

 

As for the two posts above: you guys are thinking amplifier sense.  Harmonic distortion and decay time can affect how deep a headphone can resolve into a recording.  Surely you don't think that a pair of apple buds, nearing 100% thd+N, has as clean and black of a background as a pair of Sennhesier HD800.

 

I'm not sure I can agree on that...

 

The distorsion for the harmonics on he HE-500 never gets above 1% and most of them are below 0,1% all the time.

 

The HE-400 has one harmonic that almost touches 10% at 500 Hz!

post #7579 of 37411
Quote:
Originally Posted by muad View Post

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HamilcarBarca View Post

 

THD is not noise floor.

 

+1

 

snr is a measure of noise floor

 

I don't quite agree. SNR is the signal-to-noise ratio (signal divided by noise). If the signal is zero, SNR is also, by definition, zero.

 

The noise a circuit produces without a signal is its "noise floor".

 

The minimum amount of noise a circuit produces, regardless of signal, is its "noise floor."


Edited by HamilcarBarca - 8/22/12 at 12:01pm
post #7580 of 37411
Quote:
Originally Posted by PelPix View Post


I couldn't stand them compared to the HD650

 

That's fair enough!  The HD650 do sound good, and they sound very clean in comparison to a lot of other headphones including HE-400.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoEars View Post

 

I'm not sure I can agree on that...

 

The distorsion for the harmonics on he HE-500 never gets above 1% and most of them are below 0,1% all the time.

 

The HE-400 has one harmonic that almost touches 10% at 500 Hz!

 

Bass frequencies are roughly 250hz and under give or take.

post #7581 of 37411

Has anyone in the UK ever tried ordering from EU countries to take advantage of the euro to GBP exchange rate with no import tax?

 

It seems like this is a way to basically get a 20% discount on any product as 1 euro = 0.79 GBP.. So that is a 21% discount on anything purchased from europe in the UK?

post #7582 of 37411
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

Bass frequencies are roughly 250hz and under give or take.

 

Well - I'm not a 100% convinced but at least I see what you're saying. Still think it seems like the HE-500 is the superior headphone all things considered, not that the HE-400 isn't good value for money. Thanks for the discussion none the less - learned a little about looking at frequency respone graphs.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post

Has anyone in the UK ever tried ordering from EU countries to take advantage of the euro to GBP exchange rate with no import tax?

 

It seems like this is a way to basically get a 20% discount on any product as 1 euro = 0.79 GBP.. So that is a 21% discount on anything purchased from europe in the UK?

 

Do it all the time, go for it. Only bloody good thing that came out of joining the EU.

post #7583 of 37411
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoEars View Post

 

Well - I'm not a 100% convinced but at least I see what you're saying. Still think it seems like the HE-500 is the superior headphone all things considered, not that the HE-400 isn't good value for money. Thanks for the discussion none the less - learned a little about looking at frequency respone graphs.

 

 

Well I never said the 500 wasn't the superior headphone overall.  smile.gif

post #7584 of 37411
Quote:
Originally Posted by HamilcarBarca View Post

 

I don't quite agree. SNR is the signal-to-noise ratio (signal divided by noise). If the signal is zero, SNR is also, by definition, zero.

 

The noise a circuit produces without a signal is its "noise floor".

 

The minimum amount of noise a circuit produces, regardless of signal, is its "noise floor."

I see, that makes sense

post #7585 of 37411
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoEars View Post

Come on, give the man some credit. I thought his post was very well written and informative and all you can say is "nope".

 

I'm not even sure your graphs prove your point. Since when did distorsion equal texture?

 

Thanks for the rescue, but no worries,  Raven and I prod each other on a daily basis, particularly when it comes to HD650 and various FR graphs beerchug.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

Since when does distortion equal texture?  Can you describe to me what texture is in the first place?  I feel it's one of those audiophile terms people throw around that's very wrong half the time it's used to begin with.  At its purest form, the less harmonic distortion a bass has means the less muddy it will be.  It's a big reason why D2000 has a muddy bass in comparison to the headphones we're talking about in this thread.  All too often on head-fi, the term 'bass texture' gets thrown around when a headphone has quantitively less bass, more bass distortion and more apparent midrange-treble components that go along with traditional bass instruments.  People confuse hearing more of those higher frequency harmonics of the instruments as additional texture to the bass.  What bass texture really should be?  The simple ability to discern pure bass notes from another, especially in complex passages where multiple bass might be playing in unison. 

 

I've always understood "texture" to mean detail in the bass range and the rendering of the subtle pitch shifts at low frequency that are very difficult to reproduce, both on small diaphragms, and large (speaker/sub) diaphragms.  Often the headphones with lower quantity tend to produce superior texture (eg. K70x), and only a few rare golden headphones master quantity and texture (Audeze, HE-6, HD800 after a fashion if set up right and Jupiter is aligned with Venus. ....)   I think that's pretty much the commonly understood definition.  Outside Denon threads, anyway rolleyes.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PelPix View Post


I couldn't stand them compared to the HD650

 

Certainly fair.  They're both extremely different.  There's a lot to love about HD650, and they scale amazingly well.  It's been my favorite for many years, and few measure up.  HE-400 is one of the few headphones that I can see as a true equal to them in different aspects, ironically.  Even in the presence of mighty HE-6, HD650 isn't going anywhere wink_face.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoEars View Post

 

Well - I'm not a 100% convinced but at least I see what you're saying. Still think it seems like the HE-500 is the superior headphone all things considered, not that the HE-400 isn't good value for money. Thanks for the discussion none the less - learned a little about looking at frequency respone graphs.

 

 

Do it all the time, go for it. Only bloody good thing that came out of joining the EU.

 

It almost certainly is superior, if only slightly technically superior in most areas.  However I think Raven's point is that HE-400's bass is superior, overall, however the rest of HE-500 may be superior.   For someone craving good bass, though, HE-400 needs to be on the table.  Especially when the word "Denon" appears in their "like" list tongue.gif

post #7586 of 37411

Can the AKG be EQ'd to have good bass quantity and less treble harshness or are they always a bit low on bass and bright treble?

post #7587 of 37411
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post

Can the AKG be EQ'd to have good bass quantity and less treble harshness or are they always a bit low on bass and bright treble?
Yes.
They don't actually have bad bass; they have punchy, very deep bass. It's just that the treble is so peaky that you never turn it up loud enough to hear it.
If you EQ out the treble peaks, the bass will come on its own. You don't have to do anything else.
post #7588 of 37411
Quote:
Originally Posted by PelPix View Post


Yes.
They don't actually have bad bass; they have punchy, very deep bass. It's just that the treble is so peaky that you never turn it up loud enough to hear it.
If you EQ out the treble peaks, the bass will come on its own. You don't have to do anything else.


Interesting - I've always avoided the AKG's since I hate peaky treble and found them very thin sounding in the shop.

 

But I've always thought that the AKGs were one of the most stylish headphones around!

post #7589 of 37411
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoEars View Post


Interesting - I've always avoided the AKG's since I hate peaky treble and found them very thin sounding in the shop.

 

But I've always thought that the AKGs were one of the most stylish headphones around!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PelPix View Post


Yes.
They don't actually have bad bass; they have punchy, very deep bass. It's just that the treble is so peaky that you never turn it up loud enough to hear it.
If you EQ out the treble peaks, the bass will come on its own. You don't have to do anything else.

 

Are we talking about the K701/2s? And also, is there a sonic difference between the two, or is it just paint job and stand vs. not, cable etc.?

post #7590 of 37411

Still I really dont think that the AKG701/2 are going to be great in terms of bass frankly...

 

More of a high quality tight bass that you listen too rather then feel it vibrating your head like Denon, ultrasone etc.

 

Anyway I have ordered some Phillips fidelio L1... Maybe these will satisfy my bass craving for a while until I can afford some HIFIMAN HE-500 or LCD2

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