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Sennheiser HD650 Impressions Thread - Page 503

post #7531 of 37729
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post

Thats interesting because when I was demo'ing new amplifiers I tried the Marantz and the NAD A/B and personally preferred the NAD because it had more punchy bass through the headphone jack... The quality on both was good though but they just had different sound signatures....

 

It is interesting to hear that because it confirms what I was thinking, especially as you have had a lot of experience with various amplifiers.... I think I will try a dedicated amp at some point but I don't think the difference will be quite as massive as people make out unless maybe I switched from SS to tubes.

 

The headphone jack on the 326Bee has an impedance of 68ohms whereas the HD650 are 300ohms.... Do this sound about right? Isnt it supposed to be 10x the impedance?

 

Both NAD and Marantz, but especially Marantz is famed for its signature sound.  It's a very mids-centric sound, however compared to the more natural bass I'm accustomed to, the midbass hump of HD650 seems highly accentuated with the Marantz.  Not disturbingly so, but it felt unfamiliar.  NAD should be a little more linear, if not slightly bass tilted.  They also have something of a signature sound.   The Marantz is the closest I have found in an SS amp to the sound of Mullard tubes in the Lyr with the mid-emphasis.  HD650 sounds good on it, though. I still like my Lyr & tubes better for them wink.gif

 

Yeah, especially for HD650, if you're looking for different I'd suggest tubes.  A dedicated headphone amp won't be a huge upgrade from a really good stereo separates HP out.  Versus an AVR, that's a different matter entirely....the HP out is garbage on nearly all of them until you get up to the really pricy stuff, and even then, not always.  Consider your NAD costs as much as some of the pricier AVRs and you get a clearer picture of what goes into them wink.gif

 

HD650 and impedance matching is an interesting hobby of its own.  I think too much goes into it and too little specs are publsihed on the amp side to be of much use.  It seems impossible to "go by the numbers" because the numbers often don't include all the needed variables.  Going by sound or by known "good synergy" units seem to be the way to go.  It's not difficult (or expensive) to find things that pair well with HD650, but I think trial & error works more reliably than number crunching in this case.

post #7532 of 37729

I found that the Marantz is quite a bit more mids / treble and the treble is a bit brighter but also good quality... The NAD is maybe not quite as good in the treble but has more punchy bass.

 

Overall I am very impressed with the NAD 326bee... I thought it would be exactly the same as my old NAD 315bee with more power but I was actually suprised to find that the sound quality is significantly better as well.


Edited by nicholars - 8/20/12 at 9:33am
post #7533 of 37729
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post

I found that the Marantz is quite a bit more mids / treble and the treble is a bit brighter but also good quality... The NAD is maybe not quite as good in the treble but has more punchy bass.

 

Overall I am very impressed with the NAD 326bee... I thought it would be exactly the same as my old NAD 315bee with more power but I was actually suprised to find that the sound quality is significantly better as well.

 

Depends on the model.  Classically Marantz sound is very similar to HD650's own sound (so the two together are sort of an exaggeration of the HD650's own curve.  In that sense it can "overdo it" though IMO it sounds good that way.  Though I also like Mullard tubes with HD650.    Mostly a bumped up midrange, smooth mids, and slightly rolled down treble and tight, detailed, but reduced impact low-end.  If you want to see a treble happy amp try a Yamaha!  Those things have a very high damping factor and can be very sparkly and bright.  Some people love it, others hate it.  I could never get into it.  But I can see how some could.  And if it could work on anything, the dark HD650 might be it. 

 

NAD definitely is punchier in the bass, and I suspect has a more linear extension below 50Hz as well. 

 

With all the boutique exotics these days, the classic big hi-fi brands don't get as much love as they used to smily_headphones1.gif

post #7534 of 37729

It was the Marantz PM6004 vs the NAD 326bee that I tried.

post #7535 of 37729
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post

It was the Marantz PM6004 vs the NAD 326bee that I tried.

 

Yep, PM6004's the one I got! I'm really using the speaker amp section to drive HE-6, but I tested HD650 on the headphone section as well (it's replacing my O2 since there's no point keeping them both connected.)  I haven't tried the 326Bee, though.  Last NAD I tried was for a speaker rig...the synergy wasn't right, though, unfortunately.  It was a good deal on a used piece years ago biggrin.gif

 

 

And this timing works out well because I now get to make my 1000th post in the HD650 Appreciation thread.  This thread will always be my home here on Head-Fi.  Thanks for all the chatter and arguments, guys! Onward to 1000+ Head-Fi'er status! beerchug.gif

post #7536 of 37729
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post

 

Yep, PM6004's the one I got! I'm really using the speaker amp section to drive HE-6, but I tested HD650 on the headphone section as well (it's replacing my O2 since there's no point keeping them both connected.)  I haven't tried the 326Bee, though.  Last NAD I tried was for a speaker rig...the synergy wasn't right, though, unfortunately.  It was a good deal on a used piece years ago biggrin.gif

 

 

And this timing works out well because I now get to make my 1000th post in the HD650 Appreciation thread.  This thread will always be my home here on Head-Fi.  Thanks for all the chatter and arguments, guys! Onward to 1000+ Head-Fi'er status! beerchug.gif

 

What better thread to crack the 1000 mark.  Congrats.

 

I still have quite a ways to go till I hit 1000.  It would be funny to try and correlate number of posts to money spent....because hanging out around here always makes me want to spend more biggrin.gif

post #7537 of 37729

I've heard the 650s on many tube amps including the Lyr.  For me the 650s need something that can take control of it's bass.  Tube amps just don't do it.  A good SS amp does the trick every time.  Especially amps like the GS-1 and the BHA-1 and I'm guessing the Mjolnir as well.  Now the no so nuetral B22 does it great with it as well.  It's a slightly darker sound but a much more fun sound. 

 

Now for the HD800 I'll go tubes, But for 650s. and LCD-2 solid State all the way.

post #7538 of 37729
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

I've heard the 650s on many tube amps including the Lyr.  For me the 650s need something that can take control of it's bass.  Tube amps just don't do it.  A good SS amp does the trick every time.  Especially amps like the GS-1 and the BHA-1 and I'm guessing the Mjolnir as well.  Now the no so nuetral B22 does it great with it as well.  It's a slightly darker sound but a much more fun sound. 

 

Now for the HD800 I'll go tubes, But for 650s. and LCD-2 solid State all the way.

 

You're certainly not the first person to feel that way.  It's all preference.   For me, I've tried HD650 on tons of amps.  The most unweildy bass came from the Marantz SS simply because they both have a slightly warm midbass. Though it has quite a bit of bass slam for an HD650 on that amp!  For me, personally, with the right tubes, the Lyr has excellent control over the bass and the whole range.  With the right tubes, of course. The stock tubes are "ok" but don't do as much justice to HD650 as others wink.gif

post #7539 of 37729
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post

 

You're certainly not the first person to feel that way.  It's all preference.   For me, I've tried HD650 on tons of amps.  The most unweildy bass came from the Marantz SS simply because they both have a slightly warm midbass. Though it has quite a bit of bass slam for an HD650 on that amp!  For me, personally, with the right tubes, the Lyr has excellent control over the bass and the whole range.  With the right tubes, of course. The stock tubes are "ok" but don't do as much justice to HD650 as others wink.gif



Again this is probably all about music genre preferences etc. For example on bass heavy electronic music the HD650 sounds ok even with large amounts of bass EQ but on classical music or rock music the mid bass area and anything other than a small amount of EQ sounds boomy and the bass leaks into the midrange.

post #7540 of 37729
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post



Again this is probably all about music genre preferences etc. For example on bass heavy electronic music the HD650 sounds ok even with large amounts of bass EQ but on classical music or rock music the mid bass area and anything other than a small amount of EQ sounds boomy and the bass leaks into the midrange.

 

Yes, that's very true, the nature of a relatively small diaphragm dynamic driver is that it has distortion at the low end if you push the bass too high.  No way around that short of increasing the diaphragm size, and the same would be true of HD800, though it extends better due to a larger diaphragm.  I kind of cringe when anyone talks about the "great bass" of HD650 since bass is virtually it's only true shortcoming.  I cringe more when everyone talks about the great bass of HD700 which is a virtually identical diaphragm and there's only so much air you can move with the same size and design of diaphragm without just pushing it into distortion rolleyes.gif

 

IMO bumping the bass EQ up sounds equally awful with any genre of music, but you do get some leeway depending on how bass lean your source is.

 

I was shocked by how controlled the extended midbass boom was with the Marantz.  It actually still sounded tight, though if I were using that as my main HD650 amp, I would be toning the bass down a bit. 

post #7541 of 37729

The bass quality is alright its just that it doesnt go below about 40hz at all.... The bass is a bit boomy though between 40-150hz...

 

I am thinking of trying the Sennheiser IE80 as a replacement to the HD650.. Maybe a bit more sub bass and slightly more exciting sound.

post #7542 of 37729

Why havn't you tried the HE-400s yet?  I was in the same boat as you.  I wanted an HD650 with adequate sub-bass, and the HE-400 provided that.

post #7543 of 37729
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post

The bass quality is alright its just that it doesnt go below about 40hz at all.... The bass is a bit boomy though between 40-150hz...

 

I am thinking of trying the Sennheiser IE80 as a replacement to the HD650.. Maybe a bit more sub bass and slightly more exciting sound.

 

For most acoustic instruments the HD650 bass is perfectly good.  For non-acoustic instruments (electric bass, and synth stuff for electronic) the HD650 bass simply lacks the required extension for what many are looking for.  That is the one true flaw of the HD650, which is ironically the least harped-on "problem" with HD650 with people not amping it right and whining about it being "veiled" and "dark" and "boring, slow, not detailed" and whatever else folks always complain about that isn't quite true.  And nobody includes "HD650 lacks sub-bass" which is a legitimate complaint biggrin.gif

 

For acoustic genres, though, it really is impossible to beat for less than double or triple the price wink.gif   I agree with you about classical though, there's something that never rubbed me right about classical on HD650's voicing.  HD600 was always the classical lead from Senn (it was built explicitly for classical mastering.) I do like HE-400 for classical...though recently getting HE-6 changes that.  HD650 is still my prime choice for world music and female vocals, however! It's a darn good jazz & laid back rock can too.

post #7544 of 37729

I would like the HE400 but I cannot afford them at the moment :(

post #7545 of 37729

You don't even have to buy the HE-400s.  Just order them from head-direct and take advantage of their 30 day return policy.

 

I never really liked the HD650's rendition of double bass either, as well as a couple other instruments, so it fails for me on acoustical at points too.

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