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Sennheiser HD650 Impressions Thread - Page 488

post #7306 of 36885
Quote:

Originally Posted by muscular View Post

 

Have you not thought that headphones manufacturers like sennheiser doesn't wish to overprice their headphones because of using expensive silver cables?


Most cables are copper, with some having less purity, they are less conductive than silver.

 

Headphone manufacturers use copper wire because using silver provides no electrical or audible benefit. Fancy wires are for the bling crowd.

post #7307 of 36885
I'll let you know my cable is 10 ft LONG. Oh yeah baby.

(I buy cables for bling. Any benefit I get I'll take. Yes there can sometimes be a small benefit. I even tried power cables once because some came up for sale in my country. I sold them on. They were like a garden hose and weighed 5kgs. I would have kept them if they bent.... PS Audio Statement).

Anyway, keep the cable debate to the sound forum.
post #7308 of 36885
Quote:
Originally Posted by MomijiTMO View Post

I'll let you know my cable is 10 ft LONG. Oh yeah baby.

 

There's a saying in a DIY cable forum elsewhere: Go thick or go home!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MomijiTMO View Post

I buy cables for bling. Any benefit I get I'll take.

 

I often do, too, or to get a connector design I like better.

post #7309 of 36885
Quote:
Originally Posted by HamilcarBarca View Post

 

Headphone manufacturers use copper wire because using silver provides no electrical or audible benefit. Fancy wires are for the bling crowd.

Except on the HD800 where they use silver...

post #7310 of 36885

Not trying to get into a cable debate, but i've been doing DIY recables (for myself only) for the last 2 years. Not for any major signature changes, but just as a fun project. I learned to solder this way and wanted to upgrade my HD-650 with a nicer cable.

I've yet to have a cable sound 100% identical to stock. The closest i've come is Mogami. Wonder why? I kept telling myself than my ears were hearing things and I kept my HD-650 recabled for a week with Canare, but just couldn't take it anymore.

 

I've always found that low capacitance wire sounded brighter and clearer. This is probably ALO SXC, Cat 6E (no outer covering), Belden 1192A and other wiring. I think the only reason it sounds different to me is that they have lower capacitance.

I think the ALO SXC and Cat6 must have an ultra low capacitance. Not sure if this is true, but they sound thinner in the mids of any headphone are just not as full sounding. Quite bizarre. SXC is silver plated copper. On my Q701, the SXC made everything sound crystal clear, but very distant. Less full mids. I even experienced this with silver on my KSC75 (don't ask).

 

If I wanted to make a headphone warmer sounding, I'd get a wire with a higher capacitance. Something like Mogami or Canare starquad. There's some people on all the studio forums that claim these wires due to the high capacitance negatively affect the highs. Canare does seem to slightly take the edge off my Q701's treble. It's ok for the Q701, but terrible with the HD-650. Canare turns the HD-650 into a muffled mess. Just try it.

 

I'm guessing that most people who've made DIY cables for the HD-650 use lower capacitance wire. Is the Double Helix wire low capacitance? It seems that most people love that wire and I think it's because it's not a high capacitance wire. Probably in the middle somewhere.

 

If you think silver won't sound different with the HD-650, try it for a week. Better yet, try it with the Q701 and see how bad that sounds. It should sound amazing with the HD-650, but NOT if you want to retain ALL it's warmth. Why is silver less warm "sounding" than copper? Not sure.

 

I'd love the HD-650 with Belden 1192A or any low capacitance wire. It won't add any warmth and might make it "sound" thinner. That's my guess. This is why I had an idea that Cat6 might be similar to this fancy DHC wire or any expensive SXC.

 

Right now i'm pretty convinced that the reason wire sounds different is due to capacitance. What makes it even worse is that I can rarely tell any wires apart without using a good computer DAC and very revealing amp. With a portable source it's almost impossible.

 

I've almost noticed that the lower capacitance wires need less volume from my sources. Very strange.

 

BTW what this thread needs is more comments about good CHEAP DIY cables for their HD-650. The connectors are $20, but the wire is only $1 foot. You don't need any fancy $6/foot wire. I'm really baffled when I see $300 3" mp3 player cables.

 

If you don't believe wires make even a tiny bit of difference, trying recabling a KSC75 with the HD-650 cable. I recabled my 598 once with an HD-650 cable. Wow, was that ever weird...

 

NOTE: I bet if two different brands of wire had the same capacitance, they MIGHT sound identical. Not likely you can find two that are the same. Canare does sound similar to the stock HD-650 cable.

 

Also..I can barely tell the difference with interconnect cables. Seems like it's 5x harder, which is a GOOD thing!

 

If you're weird like me and love to do silly experiments..make an interconnect cable for the HD-650 for $5 using Monoprice Cat6. Your jaw will drop. It's so good it sounds like a $10 cable! If you don't think a silly cable can affect soundstage size of the HD-650, try that. I'd love for some science guru to figure out what causes this. They'll probably say i'm hearing things and won't actually try it.


Edited by tdockweiler - 8/5/12 at 5:51pm
post #7311 of 36885
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post
If you're weird like me and love to do silly experiments..make an interconnect cable for the HD-650 for $5 using Monoprice Cat6. Your jaw will drop. It's so good it sounds like a $10 cable! If you don't think a silly cable can affect soundstage size of the HD-650, try that. I'd love for some science guru to figure out what causes this. They'll probably say i'm hearing things and won't actually try it.

Cat6 cable? You mean a LAN-cable? Like in you took a LAN-cable and soldered all the wires onto the the connector?

 

Would you like to ellaborate on exactly how you did it? Did you use all the wires? I'm not arguing that it can sound good - copper is copper. But I'm curious - might want to try it myself.

 

Also - know any good place to buy good quality connectors?

post #7312 of 36885
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoEars View Post

Cat6 cable? You mean a LAN-cable? Like in you took a LAN-cable and soldered all the wires onto the the connector?

 

Would you like to ellaborate on exactly how you did it? Did you use all the wires? I'm not arguing that it can sound good - copper is copper. But I'm curious - might want to try it myself.

 

Also - know any good place to buy good quality connectors?


Yeah, plain old Cat 6 ethernet cable. I know it sounds crazy! I bought it from Monoprice because it was the cheapest source.

I've always read these weird old articles about how some sound engineer uses extension cables or lamp cords. I was going to try that but figured Cat6 would be worth a shot.

There's this article online and supposedly Cat6 copper was the best wire to use. Wish I could find the link..not based on sound or anything.

 

The problem is that it's hard to work with and solder. For my RCA to Mini cable I used 2 blue wires for Tip/Left, 2 orange for Ring/Right and the rest (green) for ground(sleeve). The Cat6 has 6 total wires.

 

I got my connectors from Radioshack since I was lazy. They're junk, but got the job done. I usually buy from Markertek or Redco.

 

Sometime I want to try this cheap copper wire out and make an actual HD-650 cable, but it's so annoying to work with and I'd need to re-sleeve it.

 

Some probably wonder..why not use 50 cents a foot wire, but it doesn't seem as good. Cat6 with the Q701 is pretty good too.

 

I think Monoprice Cat6 could be some serious competition for silver plated copper biggrin.gif

 

BTW making speaker cables out of extension cords is stupid. Why would you want to use such a stiff cable..I did that once. I felt like a moron for about a week.

Making cables out of Cat6 isn't that much better..

 

Someday I want to hear impressions of a Cat 6 HD-650 cable vs a $500 fancy-pants cable.

 

Here's a nice review i've seen:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/cables/diy-speaker-cable-faceoff/diy-cable-faceoff-results-and-conclusion

 

For speaker cables I myself would just go with Mogami and save myself the trouble.


Edited by tdockweiler - 8/5/12 at 10:18pm
post #7313 of 36885
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post


BTW making speaker cables out of extension cords is stupid. Why would you want to use such a stiff cable..I did that once. I felt like a moron for about a week.

Making cables out of Cat6 isn't that much better..

 

 

Maybe you could take out the 6 individual cables and braid them ala ALO-cables? biggrin.gif

 

No - but serioulsy this sounds interesting, I might try it on a rainy day. Thanks for the ideas! I'll just have to order som nice connectors and sleeving - should be possible to find online.

post #7314 of 36885
I read from an article once that Theoratically using internet lan is a good alternative for the speaker cables. I forgot the model but there is a speaker that usedls lan cable as default.
post #7315 of 36885

CAT5/6 is a great source of copper wire. I wouldn't use it for higher current applications like for speakers but for headphones they are quite good. Sure, the insulation isn't too temperature proof, but for price it's really good.

post #7316 of 36885
I'm getting ready to finally pull the trigger on some hd650s. Finally. But a quick question to the experts first. Everyone seems to be selling them for $499 right now, but buy.com has them for $399. They're not an authorized seller, but I was just wondering if anyone had experience with buying from an unauthorized seller, and how strict sennheiser is on warranty issues with it.
post #7317 of 36885
Quote:
Originally Posted by meeklo062704 View Post

I'm getting ready to finally pull the trigger on some hd650s. Finally. But a quick question to the experts first. Everyone seems to be selling them for $499 right now, but buy.com has them for $399. They're not an authorized seller, but I was just wondering if anyone had experience with buying from an unauthorized seller, and how strict sennheiser is on warranty issues with it.

 

Have you tried sending an email to Brian at Blarson@Razordogdeals? Anyways, i really wouldn't recommend buying an unauthorized pair. If you have any repair issues, you straight out have to pay for them as compared to a two year warranty. On the other hand, the HD650 is built really well and you never really hear about any quality issues. I would have no problem buying unauthorized for $300 (like Shoreline music's recent closeout sale) but not for $400. Just not worth the risk! 

post #7318 of 36885
Quote:
Originally Posted by imackler View Post

 

Have you tried sending an email to Brian at Blarson@Razordogdeals? Anyways, i really wouldn't recommend buying an unauthorized pair. If you have any repair issues, you straight out have to pay for them as compared to a two year warranty. On the other hand, the HD650 is built really well and you never really hear about any quality issues. I would have no problem buying unauthorized for $300 (like Shoreline music's recent closeout sale) but not for $400. Just not worth the risk! 

 

Few had issues with the headband crack. there are few threads on headfi.

But I dont experience any of that with my 650. So it could be for just few people who do not look after their heads.

post #7319 of 36885
Quote:
Originally Posted by imackler View Post

Have you tried sending an email to Brian at Blarson@Razordogdeals? Anyways, i really wouldn't recommend buying an unauthorized pair. If you have any repair issues, you straight out have to pay for them as compared to a two year warranty. On the other hand, the HD650 is built really well and you never really hear about any quality issues. I would have no problem buying unauthorized for $300 (like Shoreline music's recent closeout sale) but not for $400. Just not worth the risk! 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsan View Post

Few had issues with the headband crack. there are few threads on headfi.
But I dont experience any of that with my 650. So it could be for just few people who do not look after their heads.

I'm not that worried about breaking them through misuse. They would probably be either on my head, or in the box with the foam they come in. I highly doubt there would be any counterfeits, so i'm not too concerned about that. As far as the warranty through sennheiser that comes with buying from an authorized retailer, i'm just not too sure on the details. as high quality as they are, I doubt they would break easily and require warranty repair as often as those wack Bose ones I had. I was just trying to get some sort of confirmation that buying them cheaper was alright. $300 would be awesome though. how often does that happen?
post #7320 of 36885
Quote:
Originally Posted by meeklo062704 View Post
$300 would be awesome though. how often does that happen?

 

$300 is ridiculously rare. $350 from Razordogdeals I think is fairly common. 

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