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Sennheiser HD650 Impressions Thread - Page 473

post #7081 of 19554

Hmm well to my ears the HD650 sound slow...

 

Fast paced music sounds like it is being played at 0.8x speed or something when compared to other headphones I have owned/own...

 

Don't get me wrong they are very good for some genres I just don't think they are suited to fast paced music especially electronic music.

 

Ideally I would own the HD650 for films and some genres and another pair for other genres but unfortunately I can only afford 1 pair of headphones at the moment.

post #7082 of 19554
Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedTea View Post

I wish I knew what you guys are talking about :(

 

My HD650s don't come till about another week...

 

And I do listen to EDM btw, but I like them just fine on my DT880s. I was thinking about the pro 9000, but getting one headphone for just one genre isn't practical for me. I might just get a xb500 or xb700 for EDM lol 

You will get some good ideas around here about different HP's for different genre's. The 650's are worth your wait. They are very versatile and work very well with a wide variety of music. I love these cans!

post #7083 of 19554
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post

Hmmmm seriously though the HD650 ARE slow! lol...

 

Compared to every other pair of headphones I have ever owned music is simply slower and has less intensity.

 

The quality of the transients etc. is excellent and the headphones are very good quality sound... But they ARE slow! If I ever try to listen to fast music such as Trance or Electronic music on the HD650 it sounds really slow and lacks attack and punch. When playing slow music such as dubstep or rock music or whatever they handle it fine.

 

This leads me to the conclusion that the HD650 are definately slow sounding headphones to my ears. Good headphones?.... Yes awesome quality soundstage and imaging?....Yes Pace, attack, punch and sub bass?..... No

 

If you are looking for relaxing headphones then these are excellent but if you are looking for  a fast punchy intense sound then these are not what you want. (I have the new version BTW)

Ahh the great psychoacoustic misperceptions of the HD650.  One of the things that makes them so neat.  HD650 is many things.  You are right that they lack "attack and punch" and sub-bass.  But speed and detail are two commonly misperceived things about HD650 due to their sound signature.  They're actually extremely fast and detailed (you didn't mention detail but that goes along with the speed fallacy normally.)   It's the rolloff at the upper frequencies and the 5kHz dip, the boosted midbass and the rolled off subbass that trick the mind into thinking it's hearing something slow and smoothed over.  If you were to compare it to a headphone that is "fast and detailed" and cut off the EQ ranges for the high and the low, leaving only the mids, you'd see they were similarly fast and detailed. 

 

So yes, the lack of that low-treble region and the sub-bass region does mean they lack punch/sparkle in context of EDM.  And it means they are always more laid back rather than forward like Beyers. But they're actually extremely fast despite the mind not readily perceiving it.  The actual impulse & transient response (what makes the actual speed) is very speedy, arguably moreso than some planars.   So what they actually are is a crazy-fast headphone that rolls off certain frequencies that give it a laid back slower vibe.  And that's part of what makes it so uniquely loved.  Laid back but fast is uncommon.

 

The reason I wouldn't use them as my primary electronic can isn't speed but sub-bass which definitively is lacking compared to Denons, HE-400, LCD-2 etc.  In acoustic music I never really notice a lack of bass, only electronic, since acoustic bass rarely deeps deep enough into the sub-bass to matter much. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

If you look at their spectral decay and impulse response, the HD650s are not slow at all.  You might be mistaking a good low bass and treble spike for punch and dynamism, because well, most of the dynamic spikes in recordings focus on those frequencies.  Ironically enough, Sennheiser's made a point to emphasize the 5khz range on the 800 and especially the 700 it seems, to really make for an aggressive and punchy experience.  A bump at 5khz definitely makes for some snappy sounding drums.

+1!  HD700...*shudder*

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedTea View Post

I wish I knew what you guys are talking about :(

 

My HD650s don't come till about another week...

 

And I do listen to EDM btw, but I like them just fine on my DT880s. I was thinking about the pro 9000, but getting one headphone for just one genre isn't practical for me. I might just get a xb500 or xb700 for EDM lol 

 

biggrin.gif  Basically the "speed" of a driver is how fast it will return to its idle position and complete a full excursion.  Transient response is how fast the diaphram makes a full excursion pushing air out, and how fast it makes a full excursion returning to its starting position.   Impulse response is how quickly it actually responds to the incoming soundwave and begins it's outward (air pushing) excursion.   Basically a "fast" headphone responds fast and travels fast.  (physically).  A slow headphone moves a little more slowly or responds to the soundwave more sluggishly but results in smoother sound.

 

HD650 is quite a fast driver.  But the brain can percieve it as slower than it is because the frequency response it's tuned to rolls off certain frequencies the brain usually uses to rate the speed of what it's hearing.  The "laid back sound" of HD650 can give the brain the impression of sort of a lazy stroll along the music because telltale frequencies in the 5kHz range are more subdued than it expects to hear. But physically it's a very fast driver.

 

DT880 is a "bright" or "forward/aggressive" headphone.  It has a bumped up FR around the 8.5kHz range.  This makes it seem more sparkly or detailed in the treble, more "forward" or "up-front", "aggressive", or "exciting."   HD650 has a dip at the 5kHz range (and elsewhere) and the presentation is of a smooth, warm, refined, lush, but laid back, or relaxing, lazy sound to it.  Thus the two are excellent compliments because they present the music very differently.  You may like hearing some albums differently on both of them, or you may perfer one or the other for certain albums or genres etc.

post #7084 of 19554

IEMcrazy I am sure that you are right with what you say.... But to my ears at least the HD650 still sound slow.... Maybe they are actually quite fast drivers etc. but at the end of the day what matters is what the user actually perceives and to me they sound a bit slow.

 

But yes as you say the main reason I am thinking of swapping them is because of the lack of sub bass... Whenever I EQ the bass to an amount that I like it cannot go loud enough without distorting and sounding boomy.... I am somewhat of a basshead though and I like a lot of bass so other people may not think this.

 

I wish I had more money so I could have more than 1 pair of good headphones :( I really like the "spacey" soundstage and the quality of the imaging on the HD650 but they need more sub bass! Anyway I will stop dis-respecting the HD650 because thisis the appreciation thread.... I was just giving my reccomendations to people looking at buying them... They are very good, but not for all tastes/genres.


Edited by nicholars - 7/13/12 at 11:52am
post #7085 of 19554
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post

IEMcrazy I am sure that you are right with what you say.... But to my ears at least the HD650 still sound slow.... Maybe they are actually quite fast drivers etc. but at the end of the day what matters is what the user actually perceives and to me they sound a bit slow.

 

But yes as you say the main reason I am thinking of swapping them is because of the lack of sub bass... Whenever I EQ the bass to an amount that I like it cannot go loud enough without distorting and sounding boomy.... I am somewhat of a basshead though and I like a lot of bass so other people may not think this.

 

I wish I had more money so I could have more than 1 pair of good headphones :( I really like the "spacey" soundstage and the quality of the imaging on the HD650 but they need more sub bass! Anyway I will stop dis-respecting the HD650 because thisis the appreciation thread.... I was just giving my reccomendations to people looking at buying them... They are very good, but not for all tastes/genres.

This is interesting reading your perceptions about the slowness of the 650's. I very appreciate that how we each perceive things is what is important. Having just listened to Trivium's The Crusade (Matt's guitar work is unbelievably fast!) I did not notice any type of lag from the 650's. What type of slowness are you experiencing? So often the genre can a big part of which headphones do the best job for the listener.

post #7086 of 19554

oooooh... I think I kinda get it now

 

Thanks IEM! 

 

now I really can't wait to hear the difference between the phones :) 

 

For movies/games which would you guys say is more ideal? the 650 or 880s?

post #7087 of 19554

I don't notice any slowness really on most genres except those with a fast bassline or midrange such as electronic music. I would describe it as the "inner" part of the sound is not slow but the attack and decay of a note seems slow. So the actual transient sounds are not slow as such but the overall beat and pace of the music on certain genres sounds slow. I guess this depends a lot on individual perception and the way that you listen to music. It seems like there is not a lot of definition on the edges of the music. It is hard to describe, but that is the best way I can describe the way in which the HD650 seem slow on some genres. Maybe it is not an actual limitation of the drivers but the way they are voiced makes them seem that way...

 

To answer that question I would say the HD650 are very good for films because they have silky smooth vocals and good soundstage.

post #7088 of 19554

hahaha I think a part of me is afraid of converting to the hd650 for everything

 

 

I don't want to neglect the DT880s :P 

post #7089 of 19554

This fixes most of the issues with HD650.   Makes them faster too, lol jecklinsmile.gif

 

50 Hz LP(12dB) +3.5 dB

390 Hz 2 oct BW -3.0 dB

5000 Hz HP(6dB) +3.5 dB

 

Thats all they need!  Make those beautiful mids come out.  Bring back some sparkle .  No more veil which is really just the (slight) upper bass hump and rolled off highs.  The boost in the sub bass brings it all home - although these open phones can only do so much sub bass (which is actually pretty decent).  Bass details are still lacking.  The phones still retain its warm signiture and is still forgiving of crappy recordings (which is what I really like about them).   I don't listen to Steely Dan and Diana Krall all day, lol!  Musical details are always there with these phones - they are just not thrown in your face!


Edited by Max F - 7/13/12 at 4:02pm
post #7090 of 19554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max F View Post

  I don't listen to Steely Dan and Diana Krall all day, lol!  

I literally just took the wrappings off 5 Steely Dan CD's! They just came in from Amazon....Too Funny  biggrin.gif

post #7091 of 19554
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post

 

Glad to see you're still with us in HD650 appreciation as hi-fi after you got your LCDs! wink.gif  You seemed in danger of selling them after during the 48 hour honeymoon time biggrin.gif

 

 

Yep, I almost made a hasty decision there.  redface.gif   Need to keep my wits about me when receiving new toys.

post #7092 of 19554
Quote:
Originally Posted by longbowbbs View Post

I literally just took the wrappings off 5 Steely Dan CD's! They just came in from Amazon....Too Funny  biggrin.gif

 

Nice!  Steely Dan is usually what I use to first listen to a new headphone.  I really like all the detail in those albums.

post #7093 of 19554

x 2 on the Steely Dan.  Listening to Aja right now.  My other 1st references are Dire Straits and the Supertramp.  All well recorded and simply a joy to listen to.  The are absolutely amazing on the HD650 (makes me wish I didn't sell mine).  Even though I don't have them anymore (for now), I'm definitely an HD650 appreciator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenthumb View Post

 

Nice!  Steely Dan is usually what I use to first listen to a new headphone.  I really like all the detail in those albums.

post #7094 of 19554
Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeyVee View Post

x 2 on the Steely Dan.  Listening to Aja right now.  My other 1st references are Dire Straits and the Supertramp.  All well recorded and simply a joy to listen to.  The are absolutely amazing on the HD650 (makes me wish I didn't sell mine).  Even though I don't have them anymore (for now), I'm definitely an HD650 appreciator.

MickeyVee, we could trade CD collections...Breakfast in America has been a favorite for 35 years!

post #7095 of 19554

In my top 10 are Breakfast in America (get Retrospectacle ~ Supertramp Anthology.. great collection and very well recorded), Aja, Love Over Gold and Enigma Remix Collection. All sound awesome on the HD650.

Actually saw Supertramp live for the Breakfast In America Tour.. glad to see there are some old timers like me on the forums wink_face.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by longbowbbs View Post

MickeyVee, we could trade CD collections...Breakfast in America has been a favorite for 35 years!

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