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Sennheiser HD650 Impressions Thread - Page 468

post #7006 of 18550
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtaylor991 View Post

Look through the grilles and if the thing (forgive me I don't know what it's called :P) shines silver on the inside it's the new version, if it's dark/black then it's the old

 

Most just call it a silk screen.

post #7007 of 18550
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus24 View Post

how can i tell if my HD650's are the new version?
 

 

As the others have described the material covering the baffles of the element housing is white, rather than black - you can easily see it through the grills from the outside.  But... I believe virtually all HD650's made since about 1/09 have been the new version.  So, if you're buying new phones from a large vendor (e.g. B&H, or J&R, or similar), you should be fine... and... they have a 30 day return policy, if they aren't.  

post #7008 of 18550
Quote:
Originally Posted by twizzleraddict View Post

 

This in a nutshell. There's no disparaging the fact that each of these HD offerings are voiced, built and suitable for different folks & genres. But you cannot say that one is really better than the other by a definition alone. It's all subjective. I had the HD800 and Beyer T1s in for over a month to listen against the HD650s. I MUCH prefer the sound signature of the HD650s. Why? It just sounds more "pleasing" to my ears and allows me to enjoy the music I listen to more so than the others. 

 

So, an appreciation for the things that the HD650 is what this thread really is about, regardless of folks bashing the HD650s. Doesn't matter what you say about them. *I* personally find the HD650s to be the standards by which to judge my cans against right now. Now maybe something else much more expensive will allow me to readjust this perception but, for now, I love my HD650s. smily_headphones1.gif


 

+1. Me too. And they are the most musical and "pleasing" to hear.

post #7009 of 18550
Quote:

Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post

 

Head-fiers may like to categorize things by levels of elitism based on their own extreme participation in a hobby that includes some very expensive exotic options, but the reality outside head-fi doesn't always match it. It's not an attempt to knock down the very well designed HD800.  It's an attempt to prevent the also well designed HD650 from not being unjustly or at least prematurely knocked out of a pedigree it well deserves

 

And that everyone is the true meaning of HD650 appreciation! beerchug.gif

 

That summarizes all your entire post. And I can't be more agree with you.

 

As I said few pages back, my current rig has little to envy to my last rig:

 

  • Current: Xonar STX (dac) + Burson HA-160 + "new" HD650 + cardas cable.
  • Before: Rega DAC + Burson HA-160 + Audeze LCD-2 rev2


Yes, a downgrade. But I am as happy as before. I enjoy the music the same way and now I have $1200 more in my pocket!

The LCD-2 are better, of course, but only by a bit. If there weren't diminishing returns then the LCD-2 price would be $550 at most, against the $450 of the HD650.

Most of the descriptions here in head-fi are mega-hyperboles only to justify the diminishing returns and the rise of the "hi-fi" tag to match their new >$1K flagship cans (by the way, a new trend that is very welcomed by the industry). It's only elitism.   

I don't mind what the people think about "mid-fi" or "hi-fi". I only mind what I hear. But if a guy say that the HD650 are only "mid-fi" then I will not trust any more in his opinions. I'll think that his descriptions are only hyperboles without taking in account the diminishing returns and without correctly describe the "actual" and small gap in performance, without exagerations.

post #7010 of 18550

The emperor can't be naked? Can he?  beyersmile.png

post #7011 of 18550
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kowalski74 View Post

 

That summarizes all your entire post. And I can't be more agree with you.

 

As I said few pages back, my current rig has little to envy to my last rig:

 

  • Current: Xonar STX (dac) + Burson HA-160 + "new" HD650 + cardas cable.
  • Before: Rega DAC + Burson HA-160 + Audeze LCD-2 rev2


Yes, a downgrade. But I am as happy as before. I enjoy the music the same way and now I have $1200 more in my pocket!

The LCD-2 are better, of course, but only by a bit. If there weren't diminishing returns then the LCD-2 price would be $550 at most, against the $450 of the HD650.

Most of the descriptions here in head-fi are mega-hyperboles only to justify the diminishing returns and the rise of the "hi-fi" tag to match their new >$1K flagship cans (by the way, a new trend that is very welcomed by the industry). It's only elitism.   

I don't mind what the people think about "mid-fi" or "hi-fi". I only mind what I hear. But if a guy say that the HD650 are only "mid-fi" then I will not trust any more in his opinions. I'll think that his descriptions are only hyperboles without taking in account the diminishing returns and without correctly describe the "actual" and small gap in performance, without exagerations.

 

I have had the HD650's and currently have the LCD2.2's and I totally disagree with that statement.

The LCD's are easily worth 4 times the price of the HD650's. The LCD's need higher quality source/amp to do them justice just like all 'high end' phones. Give then what they want so they are not held back by source/amp and the gap between the two phones is enormous!!

post #7012 of 18550
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post

 

I have had the HD650's and currently have the LCD2.2's and I totally disagree with that statement.

The LCD's are easily worth 4 times the price of the HD650's. The LCD's need higher quality source/amp to do them justice just like all 'high end' phones. Give then what they want so they are not held back by source/amp and the gap between the two phones is enormous!!

 

Worth 4 times the price? The Rega DAC ($800) and the Burson HA-160 ($600) aren't enough to do justice to the LCD-2? Crazy. Just another example of the hyperbolic arguments around here, the justification of the money spent and the exhibition of the wallet size. One can be willing to pay 4 times the price, but he is not going to get 4 times the quality, only a 20% more at the most.

But if you have lots of money and don't mind to spend big amounts of money to get better sound, then yes. The LCD-2 worth 4, 5, 6, 7 or even 10 times the price of the HD650. With diminishing returns, something a little better could have any price. Someone will be willing to pay for it, and to be "proud" for having it and to rave about it. Elitism.

In absolute terms, taking into acount the value for money, the LCD-2 don't worth 4 times the price of the HD650 in anyway.

And I had the LCD-2, and sold them. I know what I am saying. And I have the money to buy another LCD-2 and I'm not going to do it. I prefer to stick with my HD650, RS-1, my new D5000 (to replace the D2000) and a big amount of others "mid-fi" cans (K701, 325, HFI780,...).

For me it is more important the value for money than to pay 4 times more for diminishing returns, to have something better because I worth it and I have the money.

And why the hell someone who thinks that his headphones worth 4 times the price of the HD650 comes into an appreciation thread of the HD650 to say that? wink.gif

post #7013 of 18550
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kowalski74 View Post

 

Worth 4 times the price? The Rega DAC ($800) and the Burson HA-160 ($600) aren't enough to do justice to the LCD-2? Crazy. Just another example of the hyperbolic arguments around here, the justification of the money spent and the exhibition of the wallet size. One can be willing to pay 4 times the price, but he is not going to get 4 times the quality, only a 20% more at the most.

But if you have lots of money and don't mind to spend big amounts of money to get better sound, then yes. The LCD-2 worth 4, 5, 6, 7 or even 10 times the price of the HD650. With diminishing returns, something a little better could have any price. Someone will be willing to pay for it, and to be "proud" for having it and to rave about it. Elitism.

In absolute terms, taking into acount the value for money, the LCD-2 don't worth 4 times the price of the HD650 in anyway.

And I had the LCD-2, and sold them. I know what I am saying. And I have the money to buy another LCD-2 and I'm not going to do it. I prefer to stick with my HD650, RS-1, my new D5000 (to replace the D2000) and a big amount of others "mid-fi" cans (K701, 325, HFI780,...).

For me it is more important the value for money than to pay 4 times more for diminishing returns, to have something better because I worth it and I have the money.

And why the hell someone who thinks that his headphones worth 4 times the price of the HD650 comes into an appreciation thread of the HD650 to say that? wink.gif

 

I have listened to the HD650's on the Audio-gd Roc, Woo6se, 3 board B22, GS Solo SRG, Burson HA-160 , Naim Headline 2, Darkvoice 337 and probably a couple more that I can't even remember and its never approached the quality of the LCD2's on my Woo6se and don't get me started on what the LCD's sound like on the Master-6 balanced.

I have heard the LCD's with the Burson as well and I did not think it was anything special although it was not an extended listen.

Worth 4 times the cost well to me YES. Knowing what I know now having had both phones given the choice between buying the HD650's for $250 or the LCD2.2 for $1000 I would absolutely buy the LCD in a heartbeat.

 

I can understand you saying you prefer the HD650's that's fair enough, I can also understand if you don't feel the LCD's are worth the cost that's fair enough as well but my issue is with people saying that the HD650's are as good or better than the LCD's because quite simply they are not in same class and having had both I feel that I am perfectly entitled to my opinion. Far too many people on this site have strongly preferred the LCD's to the HD650's so I am not the only person, in fact I am probably in the vast majority, who see's the LCD's as clearly superior.

 

Just because you did not like the LCD's with the Rega/Burson does not mean it is inferior to the HD650's

 

 And I had the LCD-2, and sold them. I know what I am saying.

I had the HD650's twice and sold them so I also know what I am saying!!

 

 

And why the hell someone who thinks that his headphones worth 4 times the price of the HD650 comes into an appreciation thread of the HD650 to say that? wink.gif

Because I have a habit of responding to stupid comments meant to misguide and to fool people into thinking the HD650's are better than they are.

post #7014 of 18550

Sometimes you pay 4 times the price and get -20% the performance...

post #7015 of 18550

Technicality hunters in the headphone hobby tend to have it the most easy, since that's the one aspect in headphones that is at least somewhat consistently correlational to the price.

post #7016 of 18550
Quote:

Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post

 

... but my issue is with people saying that the HD650's are as good or better than the LCD's because quite simply they are not in same class.

 

Just because you did not like the LCD's with the Rega/Burson does not mean it is inferior to the HD650's


And why the hell someone who thinks that his headphones worth 4 times the price of the HD650 comes into an appreciation thread of the HD650 to say that? wink.gif

Because I have a habit of responding to stupid comments meant to misguide and to fool people into thinking the HD650's are better than they are.

 

I haven't said that the HD650 are as good or better than the LCD-2. I haven't said that I didn't like the LCD-2.

I did like the LCD-2 (more than HD650) and I have said that I think that the LCD-2 are better than the HD650. What are you talking about?

Perhaps you think I have said stupid comments. Ok. I'm only trying to put in the table the concept of diminishing returns. Do you know what is that? Are they better? Yes. 4 times better? No. You could be willing to pay $2000, $3000 or more for the LCD-2 and raving about them, but it does not make them 4 times better.

YES, the LCD-2 are better, I liked it more than the HD650. But I have the habit to respond to irresponsable comments meant to misguide and to fool people into thinking the HD650 are worse than they are and thinking that the LCD-2 are 4 times better, something like the Nirvana. Pushing people to pay their hard earned money without saying nothing about actual improvements and diminishing returns, only raving about the godness of some headphones.

And I have read tons of messages of people complaining about that the LCD-2 did not impressed them as they hoped, even more if they are coming from HD650. Then people like you say things like "you have to pay $2K more in an aftermarket cable, the correct amp and a proper DAC to make them justice", an so on.

post #7017 of 18550

Value is relative, guys.  Take it down a notch.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kowalski74 View Post

 

I'm only trying to put in the table the concept of diminishing returns. 

 

You have successfully put it deep inside the table.  Along with everyone else who has done the same over the past six pages.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

Technicality hunters in the headphone hobby tend to have it the most easy, since that's the one aspect in headphones that is at least somewhat consistently correlational to the price.

 

 

Theoretically, yes.  But I think everybody has a hard time since hardly anybody knows what they want.  

post #7018 of 18550
Quote:
Originally Posted by sphinxvc View Post

Value is relative, guys.  Take it down a notch.

 

 

You have successfully put it deep inside the table.  Along with everyone else who has done the same over the past six pages.

 

 

 

 

Theoretically, yes.  But I think everybody has a hard time since hardly anybody knows what they want.  

 

Mmm. I think I have wrote it wrong ("put on?"). bigsmile_face.gifbigsmile_face.gifbigsmile_face.gif

 

The problem is that there are people who think that talking about diminishing returns is the same that saying that the HD650 are better than others cans that are clearly better. wink.gif

post #7019 of 18550
I don't really have a problem saying the hd650 is a better listen than hd800. I also think he400 is better than hd650 too so lcd2 is probably a good bit better in my book.
post #7020 of 18550
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kowalski74 View Post

I haven't said that the HD650 are as good or better than the LCD-2. I haven't said that I didn't like the LCD-2.


I did like the LCD-2 (more than HD650) and I have said that I think that the LCD-2 are better than the HD650. What are you talking about?


Perhaps you think I have said stupid comments. Ok. I'm only trying to put in the table the concept of diminishing returns. Do you know what is that? Are they better? Yes. 4 times better? No. You could be willing to pay $2000, $3000 or more for the LCD-2 and raving about them, but it does not make them 4 times better.


YES, the LCD-2 are better, I liked it more than the HD650. But I have the habit to respond to irresponsable comments meant to misguide and to fool people into thinking the HD650 are worse than they are and thinking that the LCD-2 are 4 times better, something like the Nirvana. Pushing people to pay their hard earned money without saying nothing about actual improvements and diminishing returns, only raving about the godness of some headphones.


And I have read tons of messages of people complaining about that the LCD-2 did not impressed them as they hoped, even more if they are coming from HD650. Then people like you say things like "you have to pay $2K more in an aftermarket cable, the correct amp and a proper DAC to make them justice", an so on.

Whew!!!

You have to appreciate the passion of any hobbyist!

I am greatly enjoying my HD650's alongside both my DacMagic Plus and my meager NuForce uDac2. To me the point is not about cost and who paid more for what ( I'll never get that Ferrari!) but whether or not I get the satisfaction of enjoying my time with the music I love. The cans are on my head, is life good?

For me and many of us in this forum, the answer is YES! The Senn's are doing us proud and we are appreciating their delivery of our music.

Could we have better. I am sure we could, but as Yu have eloquently stated it is a function of diminishing return.

As a consumer, I can choose my own level of value and enjoy the quality it offers feeling like I have maximized my enjoyment value. While there is always a higher mountain, the air is still pretty clear from here, for me. As always...YMMV and that is quite alright. biggrin.gif
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