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Sennheiser HD650 Impressions Thread - Page 464

post #6946 of 19501
Quote:
Originally Posted by sphinxvc View Post

 

 

It's all relative.  We generally don't assess phones by tonal balance, but by driver speed and sensitivity.  In other words, resolution is usually what dictates better can, worse can--at least in this community.  So since 8 years ago, we have HD800s, Omega 2's, LCD-2s, the HE-series (some of which are really cheap), T1's, and so on.

 

Pretty much all of them are faster transducers than the HD650.  So the scale went up and hi-fi became $1K cans.  Cans with less resolution naturally fell to mid-fi, and the worst are lo-fi.  It just makes things easier to talk about.  It's nothing personal--though I'm not sure why anyone would include a can in their self-identity anyway.

 

Well one could argue that the Stax SR-009 are true hi-fi and the other cans like the LCD-2/3, HD800, HE-6/500 are really just upper mid-fi if all that matters is speed, resolution, etc.  Most agree that the 009 is on another level.

post #6947 of 19501
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenthumb View Post

 

Well one could argue that the Stax SR-009 are true hi-fi and the other cans like the LCD-2/3, HD800, HE-6/500 are really just upper mid-fi if all that matters is speed, resolution, etc.  Most agree that the 009 is on another level.

 

They are, but again, they're all just names.  Calling the $1K cans hi-fi just makes it easier to talk about.  Back in the day no one called R10's or Qualias Hi-fi and HD650's Mid-fi.  The word hi-fi here seems to take into account some sense of affordability/accessibility and resolution.  Does that make perfect sense?  No.  But It's language.  It's always going to be subject to consensus rather than logic.

post #6948 of 19501

On a different note, sphinxvc which do you think is a better upgrade path of owners who love the HD650?  The LCD-2 or HD800?  I'm trying to decide between the two at the moment.  I really liked the HE-500 but it wasn't as big an upgrade as I thought it was going to be.  It was better but not by much.

post #6949 of 19501
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post

 

Ah right so the HD650 which was a flagship initially and many amps have been built around these headphones etc.... Are now suddenly "mid fi" because other more expensive headphones with different sound signatures have come out? I mean really the HD650 actual sound quality is still HIFI. It is not suddenly MIDFI because some other headphones with different sound signatures have come out. You could argue that the LCD3 is also MIDFI in that case because it has recessed treble. Under the same logic you could say the HD800 is also MIDFI because it is too bright and can sound harsh, same with the Beyerdynamic tesla. LOADS of people agree that the HD650 actual sound quality is still up there with more expensive headphones, just the more expensive headphones have different sound signatures.... Labelling them "mid fi" is silly IMO. They are clearly still upper tier headphones. I bet if the HD650 were priced at $800 people would not be spouting this sillyness about "mid fi". Also I bet if the LCD3 were $400 people would say they are "MIDFI" because they are lacking in the treble but have excellent bass etc.

 

+1

 

I had the LCD-2 and now I have the HD650 + cardas with the Burson HA-160. Well, the 650 has very little to envy to the LCD-2. In fact, there are things that the 650 can do better.

If more details is "hi-fi", then yes. Probably there are more detailed headphones and the 650 should be considered mid-fi. But to me the details are not the most important. As in TVs or photo cameras, more resolution is not necessary related with better image. For example, if I can see all the hairs in a face but the colors are awful then it is not a quality TV.

In audio all is more subjective, so everyone can say what they want. If his headphones cost 1K but has no highs, no soundstage, no musicality, no body, or has harsh trebles, to say something, then it doesn't matter. They must be "hi-fi" because they are more detailed and more whatever... and they cost 1K, of course. Then they have a pair of cheaper headphones ("mid-fi") for the "less exigent" moments, "only" to have fun or enjoy the music (¿¿¡¡!!??).

I think that an actual 1K headphone must be the one that be really an all-rounder, excellent for almost every genre. That thing doesn't exist, so to me above $300 all are almost the same, a bit better or a bit worse, but all in near tiers (all hi-fi).

 

The exaggerations to describe the improvements in a headphone above other are directly proportional to the difference in price. While the actual improvement is only a fraction. Diminishing returns.

For example:

Headphones A: $ 300
Headphones B: $ 1200

The positive reviews of B have a 400% hyperbole. They seem like gods. In reality the improvement may be between 4% and 16%. Even less if they are not properly amped, of course.

The problem is that in the audiophile world there is also an elitist sentiment. Some audiophiles (not all, of course) have to feel themselves special and above the rest. If they can afford $1K headphones then the "hi-fi" level has to be in that price range and not in $300, as it was only 5 or 6 years ago. Mmmmm, and too many people can have $ 300 headphones, so they must be "mid-fi" (irony).

post #6950 of 19501
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenthumb View Post

On a different note, sphinxvc which do you think is a better upgrade path of owners who love the HD650?  The LCD-2 or HD800?  I'm trying to decide between the two at the moment.  I really liked the HE-500 but it wasn't as big an upgrade as I thought it was going to be.  It was better but not by much.

 

That's tough to say.  But if I had to push you in one direction and not feel guilty, I would pick the HD800.  It's the most technically capable phone of the bunch.  It's the one that can be tweaked to neutrality with relatively little effort.  And any quality OTL amplifier should do the trick for it, just like for the HD650.  

post #6951 of 19501

I forgot to add, it can be the most rewarding once the above is done.

post #6952 of 19501

i just ordered a pair of these phones and these would be my first pair of high quality cans apart from my Grado sr60. How much better are these compared to my grado sr60s? also are these the best cans for 500? thanks


Edited by Proteus24 - 6/20/12 at 4:49pm
post #6953 of 19501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus24 View Post

i just ordered a pair of these phones and these would be my first pair of high quality cans apart from my Grado sr60. How much better are these compared to my grado sr60s? also are these the best cans for 500? thanks

 

Well... do doubt you'll like them... but... just remember... they require a well matched amp with lots of voltage output to sound their best.  Comparing them to Grados without a well-matched set up to drive them... is not a fair comparison.

post #6954 of 19501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradofan2 View Post

 

Well... do doubt you'll like them... but... just remember... they require a well matched amp with lots of voltage output to sound their best.  Comparing them to Grados without a well-matched set up to drive them... is not a fair comparison.


which amp do you recommend that isnt too expensive?

post #6955 of 19501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus24 View Post


which amp do you recommend that isnt too expensive?

 

The O2 (Objective2) is wonderful if you can afford it (~$145 assembled, cheaper if you DIY). The Fiio E9 is a choice if you really need a cheap amp, but is definitely not as good. I actually occasionally use my E10 and still enjoy my HD650, although I wouldn't want to live with this combo.

post #6956 of 19501
Quote:
Originally Posted by sphinxvc View Post

 

That's tough to say.  But if I had to push you in one direction and not feel guilty, I would pick the HD800.  It's the most technically capable phone of the bunch.  It's the one that can be tweaked to neutrality with relatively little effort.  And any quality OTL amplifier should do the trick for it, just like for the HD650.  

 

Okay, thanks for your input.  Much appreciated.

post #6957 of 19501
Quote:
Originally Posted by juantendo8 View Post

 

The O2 (Objective2) is wonderful if you can afford it (~$145 assembled, cheaper if you DIY). The Fiio E9 is a choice if you really need a cheap amp, but is definitely not as good. I actually occasionally use my E10 and still enjoy my HD650, although I wouldn't want to live with this combo.


since im not an audiophile would i be able to notice the increase in performance with the O2? thanks

post #6958 of 19501

Tell us a little more. What's your source? DAP (iPod, iPhone, Android Phone) or a PC or Mac?

Are you looking at portability or a desktop solution?

What kind of price range?

 

For a PC or Mac you'll want a DAC/AMP combo.. The FiiO E17 will do nicely.  I'm playing around with an Audioengine D1 and am really liking it with the HD650.

For a straight portable amp out of an iPod or phone, a FiiO E11 would probably do nicely.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus24 View Post


which amp do you recommend that isnt too expensive?

post #6959 of 19501
Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeyVee View Post

Tell us a little more. What's your source? DAP (iPod, iPhone, Android Phone) or a PC or Mac?

Are you looking at portability or a desktop solution?

What kind of price range?

 

For a PC or Mac you'll want a DAC/AMP combo.. The FiiO E17 will do nicely.  I'm playing around with an Audioengine D1 and am really liking it with the HD650.

For a straight portable amp out of an iPod or phone, a FiiO E11 would probably do nicely.

 


damn that sucks since i use both my pc and an mp3 player at home so i will need two different amps correct?

post #6960 of 19501

Nope.. FiiO E17 will do the trick.  You will also need an LOD cable to hook up your MP3 player.  Check out FiiO's site and the FiiO E17 thread.  There's some great info there.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/3750#post_8473259 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus24 View Post


damn that sucks since i use both my pc and an mp3 player at home so i will need two different amps correct?

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