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Sennheiser HD650 Impressions Thread - Page 457

post #6841 of 36851
Quote:
Originally Posted by franklyshankly View Post

Anyone know the best place to find these new or used at a good price? I know JRs has deals occasionally, how about any eBay vendors? Is it possible to find them new for $350-$375? Thanks!

 

Once upon a time that was that was the normal street price.  By once upon a time, I mean for the past 5+ years until January.  It did spike up again when HD800 came out, then settled back down, but now they have their MAP enforcement, which is utterly stupid on many levels.  However, whether they'll relax pricing again is unknown.  Since the HD700 just came out they could be doing the same temporary elevation they did when HD800 was released.  Or not.  We'll see.

 

I'm sure from some ebay dealer you could find them...they'd be gray market, no warranty etc. But when was the last time anyone heard of a 650 failing due to defect?  But the MAP enforcement has bumped even gray market pricing up.

post #6842 of 36851

I've said it before, but I think the relationship between clamp effect and comfort I think has to do more with the how the oval pads line up to your jaw. Most HD650 like oval pads line up right against my jawbones and even a slight clamp in that area for a extended period of time results in discomfort and headaches for me.  I don't think that clamp itself is too firm for me or anything. HD800, which is stated by Sennheiser to have actually more clamping pressure, feels very comfortable to me as it distributes pressure over a larger area.  I also find my LCD-2 rev 1 clamping force comfortable enough, even though they have just as much, if not more clamping pressure than the HD650's.  

 

It's really unfortunate as I otherwise love everything else about the HD650's. Would have loved to keep it even with the HD800 and LCD-2's around.

post #6843 of 36851
Quote:
Originally Posted by K_19 View Post

I've said it before, but I think the relationship between clamp effect and comfort I think has to do more with the how the oval pads line up to your jaw. Most HD650 like oval pads line up right against my jawbones and even a slight clamp in that area for a extended period of time results in discomfort and headaches for me.  I don't think that clamp itself is too firm for me or anything. HD800, which is stated by Sennheiser to have actually more clamping pressure, feels very comfortable to me as it distributes pressure over a larger area.  I also find my LCD-2 rev 1 clamping force comfortable enough, even though they have just as much, if not more clamping pressure than the HD650's.  

 

It's really unfortunate as I otherwise love everything else about the HD650's. Would have loved to keep it even with the HD800 and LCD-2's around.

You're 100% right about jaw pressure.  That's a big part of it.  With some headphones it's also temple pressure. D5k has that issue for me, and the pleather HiFiMan pads did, but the velour do not.

 

However one thing about the jaw pressure on HD650 is, if I open the band more and tilt the headband a bit more forward on my head, it no longer clamps the jaw like that.  For years I had the headband forward like that, never had comfort issues.  Then I started paying attention to placement more, put the headband back more...it made more sense and made a wider soundstage at that angle.  It required shortening the band a bit.  But the jaw clamping in that angle was unbearable, and some sounds were coming from behind (HRTF issues.)  I've recently opened the band more than ever, tilted it more forward on my head, and the comfort is golden (bongo drummer stopped standing behind me, coincidentally...)

 

I had thought such forward band positioning as "wrong" but my acuqisition of D5k showed me that in their case they really WANT that band to be forward, the frame is set up for it. So I tried it, and it worked.

 

But you're entirely right about the jaw clamping being a huge issue.  But depending on head shape it's easy to move it so it's not pressing much on the jaw.  It's still there, but doesn't bother me like it was (that was just painful for a while.)

post #6844 of 36851

Higher HD650 appreciation...

I've been running my HD650's for the last year with a Matrix Mini-i DAC/AMP combo and it's been pretty nice.. went through the FiiO E7/E9, sold it shortly thereafter, the E10 and the E17.  While nice, I knew there was much more potential.

Well.. jut got the Schiit Lyr, loaded up some Amperex Holland tubes, took my PS Audio DLIII DAC from my main A/V system and all I can say is Holy Schiit!  It's taken the HD650's to a brand new level.  Loving them even more!!

 

 

Edit.. 5 hours later.. can't stop listening to the Lyr/DLIII/HD650 combo.. it's simply amazing!!!


Edited by MickeyVee - 6/1/12 at 9:33pm
post #6845 of 36851

I stumbled upon a combination of the Luxman P-1u headphone amp and the HD650.  Surreal, luscious.  Warmish and forgiving, but no detail is missing.  And this was while thinking I'd prefer a Woo WA5 or WA6SE with the 650.  They were great, but . . .

 

When you find an amp that drives them just so . . . or the right tubes in the right tube amp . . . the HD650 is as good as any "flagship".  Maybe better.  I've tried the HD800 three times, and just can't get into them.  And I prefer the 650/Luxman combo to the 007TII/O2Mk.II that I had before this.  Amazing.  

post #6846 of 36851
Quote:
Originally Posted by greggf View Post

I stumbled upon a combination of the Luxman P-1u headphone amp and the HD650.  Surreal, luscious.  Warmish and forgiving, but no detail is missing.  And this was while thinking I'd prefer a Woo WA5 or WA6SE with the 650.  They were great, but . . .

 

When you find an amp that drives them just so . . . or the right tubes in the right tube amp . . . the HD650 is as good as any "flagship".  Maybe better.  I've tried the HD800 three times, and just can't get into them.  And I prefer the 650/Luxman combo to the 007TII/O2Mk.II that I had before this.  Amazing.  


what does that amp cost? (the luxman)

post #6847 of 36851
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleudeciel16 View Post


what does that amp cost? (the luxman)

Here it is from a quick Google search

 

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-893-luxman-p-1u-class-a-headphone-amp.aspx

post #6848 of 36851
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtaylor991 View Post

Here it is from a quick Google search

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-893-luxman-p-1u-class-a-headphone-amp.aspx

Well I did a google search and found one at $2k and wanted to make sure I could trust my eyes. For $3k, I hope it sounds good lol.
post #6849 of 36851
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleudeciel16 View Post


Well I did a google search and found one at $2k and wanted to make sure I could trust my eyes. For $3k, I hope it sounds good lol.

Yeah I saw one for like $2.5k on ebay plus shipping ($215).

post #6850 of 36851

On their website, it says it is warm but detailed, and I don't like the idea of pairing warm with 650s, but I'd love to hear one to try.

post #6851 of 36851

Well rendered warmth in a chain makes for a lively presentation with the HD650. It's a misconception that this type of coloration dulls them. Perhaps if a warm component in the chain lacked texture and dynamics, smeared the lower frequencies and masked details. With Amperex Orange Globes in the Lyr and with the neutral and detailed signature of the the Bifrost behind it, the HD650 had great body, dynamics and tone. Bass was deep but well defined. Guitars had crunch and bite. It had palpable drive and authority, dense but coherent. Reminded me of the Alessandro/Grado sound, smoother but on steroids and with a less constrained presentation.

post #6852 of 36851
Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post

Well rendered warmth in a chain makes for a lively presentation with the HD650. It's a misconception that this type of coloration dulls them. Perhaps if a warm component in the chain lacked texture and dynamics, smeared the lower frequencies and masked details. With Amperex Orange Globes in the Lyr and with the neutral and detailed signature of the the Bifrost behind it, the HD650 had great body, dynamics and tone. Bass was deep but well defined. Guitars had crunch and bite. It had palpable drive and authority, dense but coherent. Reminded me of the Alessandro/Grado sound, smoother but on steroids and with a less constrained presentation.

Oh..I had a Darkvoice 337 and upgrading to the DLIII DAC (which seems to be fairly energetic and musical) helped immensely but the 650s still sounded incredibly dull compared to my current setup, and my current amp is so much lesser in price than the DV337, and it even has an internal DAC to make it a combo (Audio-gd Compass). The soundstage is actually existent (but that's the dual volume knob style to blame, not the tubes), and highs actually come out clear rather than strangled and compressed down into oblivious warmth.

 

I recognize that it could have been my tubes, so I'd be up for trying another tube amp as to not be ignorant but I think SS is my direction if the rule of thumb is more accuracy, detail, and transparency with SS and desired coloration for tubes. I'd love to try a not-overly-warm, accurate, detailed, and well-staged (good soundstage) tube amp with the 650s some time. I'm looking at trying transparent/neutral though. I'm gonna start with an O2 and if I like it I'm looking into the SPL Auditor.

post #6853 of 36851

Yeah, the Luxman P-1u is $3,000, and, believe me, I wish it didn't sound as good as it does.  I agree with the statement that well-crafted warmth does NOT smother the HD650.  

post #6854 of 36851

Referring to some earlier post - I have a HD650 and never believed in cable.

 

Until sometimes ago...

 

my friend and I came around a famous cable shop in my area, which seems that they really know what they are doing. I asked, "my hearing is not trained nor great, can I actually hear difference with cables?" Cable guy confidently said, "c'mon, give yourselves a try." We didn't have the leisure to do blind test with each other (yes the shop has HD650, HD800, LCD2, HiFiMan and other cans for you to play with), but by switching the cable in sighted comparison, stock vs custom "rectangular occ copper" - the difference was quite noticeable. Since we are DIYers with electronics background, we had been very skeptical about cable effect, but if we both could hear difference while trying to convince each other that there is none at all, that just sparked much interest in us and I decided to switch some cables for fun.

 

I started out on Sommercable Peacock, the cable my beloved T1 used. The difference is in fact noticeable. Our theory was that because the stock cable was horribly thin (>28awg - anyone bother to cut the stock cable open for measurement?) that damped the headphone in a whole, which is a trick manufacturers can use to save cost and achieve certain sonic signature while compromising the details on replay.

 

(On the cost: people argue how much one can save from using crap cables, actually that's a huge lot. Long story short - you know McDonalds counted their sesames on the bun?)

 

1024x682-Jim_HD650_Sommer.jpg

 

So then the HD650 Sommercable "peacock" was made. I was happy with the result, but from my memory the difference wasn't quite as dramatic as I thought. That is noticeable, but not as spectacular as comparing to my faded and subjective memory. The sound got clearer, the bass are less bloated.

 

Then I sourced some audiophile grade 18 awg occ cable. Heck I can get a bottle of Cannubi Boschis with the material cost! No wonder why people would think those making after market cable are making big bucks out of nowhere. It's the craftsmanship and sourcing which are expensive. 60 strandings into a 18awg, that's probably the best according to audiophiles' comment.

 

Even more unbelievable was that it claimed directional. We thought that was BS. My mate accidentally drop the label indicating the direction, we didn't give much care. But curiousity called - after measuring the cable from "front to back" and "back to front" the value was different. The test was did with precise equipment. I will be ordering more and try to repeat the test with video recording in the hope that the test was really, really screwed up.

7460612_bbcbf5049f4e16fab8b78f991569e027.jpg

(Side note: This custom Neutrik plug is plain awesome.)

 

So the cable was made yesterday. Sound got much, much richer. Mids and bass got much richer, soundstage widened, while the high got much detailed. With stock cable, Sommer Peacock and 18awg occ in hand, will be conducting blinded test later when I can get an extra pair of HD650.

 

I still need time to investigate theories on this. But now I agree that my T1 need recabling. Which is not good to my heart and wallet. My mate want to make it with silvergold (not with Mund0rf).

 

For those who are interested, stay tuned.

 

724x1024-poster-small.jpg

(T1 & HD650)

 

P.S. - While doing sighted test or blinded, we could tell difference which are huge, but cannot write like a cable connoisseur. Forgive our lack of literacy or creativity.

post #6855 of 36851

Sounds interesting...I'm a bit intrigued. I've been neutral on the subject of cables since I've never tried it (but I don't believe an upgraded USB (or other digital) cable can make a difference beyond better insulation from the wire that provides electricity to charge stuff etc. since it's only digital 1s and 0s) but I'm in line to get a loaner from somebody in July or something.

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