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Sennheiser HD650 Impressions Thread - Page 448

post #6706 of 36851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tilpo View Post


I believe I found some in Narnia. You should check it out!
I'm personally not such a big fan of Schiit. Haven't heard any of their products, but from what I heard they do take some rather unconventional approaches in terms of engineering. This may result in a colored sound that many people seem to enjoy, but personally I seek transparency above coloration when it comes to source and amping.
My advice is to let the headphones and the recordings (and equalizers/ other DSP's) do the coloration. Far cheaper, and makes it easier for yourself to sleep at night, since you have to worry less about your DAC and amp.

 

Quite true, ALL the Schiit amps are voiced to sound warm.  Many such as myself like that, but for someone such as yourself seeking neutrality above all else, it's not the route to go.  Then again, neither is HD650...could I interest you in some lovely dead-neutral K702's? wink.gif

 

Regarding EQ/DSP, if you're using a PC as a source, that makes sense.  If you're not, any worthwhile parametric EQ or DSP I've seen cost quite a bit more than a Schiit DAC + amp combined.  And several times the cost of HD650. Even at the new inflated prices!  So colored amps can be the cheapest way to EQ to your liking, I suppose. Assuming you like the house sound of your preferred brand.  I dislike the coloration of Headroom for example. 

 

O2 is dead neutral.  You'd love it! biggrin.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sridhar3 View Post

 

Welcome to Head-Fi.  Here, EVERY thread eventually turns into the front line of the cable debate.

 

How true rolleyes.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sphinxvc View Post

 

Cable Nazi.  wink.gif

 

LOL atsmile.gif

post #6707 of 36851
I'm now using a schiit Valhalla with the hd650 and am loving the results. It's a great combo IMO.
post #6708 of 36851
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post

Quite true, ALL the Schiit amps are voiced to sound warm.  Many such as myself like that, but for someone such as yourself seeking neutrality above all else, it's not the route to go.  Then again, neither is HD650...could I interest you in some lovely dead-neutral K702's? wink.gif

Regarding EQ/DSP, if you're using a PC as a source, that makes sense.  If you're not, any worthwhile parametric EQ or DSP I've seen cost quite a bit more than a Schiit DAC + amp combined.  And several times the cost of HD650. Even at the new inflated prices!  So colored amps can be the cheapest way to EQ to your liking, I suppose. Assuming you like the house sound of your preferred brand.  I dislike the coloration of Headroom for example. 
Imo the HD650's are actually fairly neutral. Not perfect, but that's true for every headphone.

I'm starting on my Stax journey in a week or so, I hope they get me to the right sound signature. I'll definitely write a detailed comparison to the SR-202 and the HD650, which should be interesting since the SR-202 is actually cheaper than the HD650.

Also one important thing, not really pointed to anyone specific: A lot of people say they like a certain amp, and love the sound. But often these people have never compared it directly to other amps, or only made comparisons to it being driven unamped. This is a huge problem, since such reviews only tell you if there is something seriously wrong with the unit or not. To get good information you need to have comparative reviews, which are unfortunately relatively rare.
Edited by Tilpo - 5/18/12 at 1:32pm
post #6709 of 36851

Umm. there is no such thing as listening unamped.  Even if you plug the HD650 into a laptop or iPod, there is still some sort of amp.. though the amp may be worth $2.

There is no such thing as dead neutral unless you're listing to a live unplugged session.

The reason we love HeadFi so much is that we can read about other people's impressions and then draw our own conclusions.  Not everyone can audition headphones and especially amps unless there's a local HeadFi meet and even then, choice may be limited. Reading about other people's experiences/reviews and getting and idea of what our own preferences are at least points us in the right direction.  That's why there's HeadFi and review sites.

Given that, I seriously got into the hobby just over a year ago and went through the Grado SR60i, 80i, iBasso D10, FiiO E7, E9, E10, NuForce uDac, Matrix Mini-i, HD600 & HD650, AKG K240 HiFiMAN HE-400, Etymotic, B&W plus I spent a lot of time auditioning other headphones such as Denon, more Grado, AKG and others. Whew.. 

I finally decided that I like a warmer sound with good bass and midrange detail and hate sibilance. Would I have gotten to what works for me without HeadFi and the review sites? Probably not.  Bring it on, all of it, the good, bad and ugly.  In the end, I'll draw my own conclusions.  (Can't way to order my Schiit Lyr :)

Everyone has their own tastes but we have one common end, listening to and appreciating music.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tilpo View Post


Also one important thing, not really pointed to anyone specific: A lot of people say they like a certain amp, and love the sound. But often these people have never compared it directly to other amps, or only made comparisons to it being driven unamped. This is a huge problem, since such reviews only tell you if there is something seriously wrong with the unit or not. To get good information you need to have comparative reviews, which are unfortunately relatively rare.

Edited by MickeyVee - 5/18/12 at 5:24pm
post #6710 of 36851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tilpo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post


Consensus?  From audiophiles?  What is this reality you speak of and where can I find it? tongue.gif
I believe I found some in Narnia. You should check it out!
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post

There are a great many HD650 fans here, and probabably only 20% share any common source hardware.  I'm personally fond of my Schiit Lyr + Schiit Bifrost, however that pair will run you over the $600 limit, and my Bifrost was not purchased with the USB option.  Schiit Asgard & Bifrost would fit the budget though, minus shipping to FR unless there's an EU dealer available.  Schiit is a little US-centric for the moment.

Audio-gd has some good ratings overall.  I prefer the warmth added by tubes, especially with HD650, but that's personal preference and others may disagree. HiFiMan makes a nice looking hybrid amp, the HF-5 that's worth a look, but I have no personal experience with it.   If you want to go on a really tight budget you can look at Objective 2 & ODAC USB.  It's a DIY kit, however I believe there's a vendor in the UK selling pre-assembled models.  O2+ODAC in one enclosure is going to be available in the next week or two by the store selling pre-assembled ones in the US, i'm sure they'll be available from the UK shortly as well.  O2 isn't the best feeling amp in the world, and it's a dead-neutral amp, so if you like a warmer sound, it may not suit you, but performance-wise it's a very solid performer including with HD650.
I'm personally not such a big fan of Schiit. Haven't heard any of their products, but from what I heard they do take some rather unconventional approaches in terms of engineering. This may result in a colored sound that many people seem to enjoy, but personally I seek transparency above coloration when it comes to source and amping.

My advice is to let the headphones and the recordings (and equalizers/ other DSP's) do the coloration. Far cheaper, and makes it easier for yourself to sleep at night, since you have to worry less about your DAC and amp.

 

Perhaps you're referring only to Schiit amps, but the Bifrost is less coloured to my ears and certainly more detailed and transparent than the Audio-GD components (FUN and NFB-10SE) I've owned in the past. The Bifrost is a very good foundation for an HD650 setup imo.

 

Also, if someone intended to drive power hungry cans in addition to the HD650, the Lyr is a good option. The level of colouration is determined by selection of tubes.

post #6711 of 36851
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
IMO I think that the Valhalla is voiced specifically to play to the HD650s strengths by bringing forward the midrange and lessening the bass whilst clearing up the highs. It now sounds like an open window to the sound and very addictive. Anything sounds good on them now - they are faster and less bassy. Add on a cable and you're in audio nirvana. You can get world class sound for under $1000.
Edited by bookaboo - 5/18/12 at 5:42pm
post #6712 of 36851
Quote:
Originally Posted by sphinxvc View Post
[...]

I have observed a curse on this thread, the conversation deviates back to cables 9/10 times. It's been happening for the last year, and probably since it's inception.

 

I remember when this thread was mainly about the enjoyment people derived from the HD650. The joy of new owners, the wisdom of weathered veterans and the occasional newbie about to experience a revelation. Now it seems like every second post is from someone peddling something...

 

btw, I have a DHC Molecule cable listed in the FS section if anyone is interested. wink.gif


Edited by olor1n - 5/18/12 at 6:54pm
post #6713 of 36851

I love my HD650.  beerchug.gif

post #6714 of 36851

Me too. With my HD650 and K501, there's no music of mine that doesn't sound absolutely spectacular.tongue.gif

post #6715 of 36851
Quote:
Originally Posted by peanuthead View Post

I love my HD650.  beerchug.gif

 

Same here. I'm planning on getting the HD800 in the future, but IMHO, the bass will never be as good as the HD650.

post #6716 of 36851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin Morrow View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by peanuthead View Post

I love my HD650.  beerchug.gif

 

Same here. I'm planning on getting the HD800 in the future, but IMHO, the bass will never be as good as the HD650.

 

fail.jpg

post #6717 of 36851
Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post

 

 

 

Sorry, I don't agree. Simple as that for me.

post #6718 of 36851
Quote:
Originally Posted by RudeWolf View Post

I wouldn't mess with the voicecoil wires. I once resoldered them on a HD25-II and let's just say- I was just a hair away from buying a new driver. Both ends are enameled so you would need to dip them into molten solder. That may mean that you need proper heatsinking to not destroy the driver by heat transfer. Also excessive heating may make the wire more brittle than it already is.

 

My advice- just don't. Even if you succeed you will end up attributing every future crackle and pop to your soldering job. Placebo works both ways.

 

Glad to hear that. I am not touching mine.

post #6719 of 36851
Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post

 

Perhaps you're referring only to Schiit amps, but the Bifrost is less coloured to my ears and certainly more detailed and transparent than the Audio-GD components (FUN and NFB-10SE) I've owned in the past. The Bifrost is a very good foundation for an HD650 setup imo.

 

Also, if someone intended to drive power hungry cans in addition to the HD650, the Lyr is a good option. The level of colouration is determined by selection of tubes.

 

That's right. Impressed with the SQ from Bifrost and Lyr when I listened to it everyday. I tweak the SQ and colouration by changing the RCA cable (between Bifrost and Lyr), HD650 custom cable and the tubes.

post #6720 of 36851
Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post

Perhaps you're referring only to Schiit amps, but the Bifrost is less coloured to my ears and certainly more detailed and transparent than the Audio-GD components (FUN and NFB-10SE) I've owned in the past. The Bifrost is a very good foundation for an HD650 setup imo.

Also, if someone intended to drive power hungry cans in addition to the HD650, the Lyr is a good option. The level of colouration is determined by selection of tubes.
I mainly was referring to Schiit amps indeed. I haven't read much literature on the Bifrost yet, so I don't know much about it's sound signature.

I do like my Audio-GD however, and for $200 I think the NFB-12 is an excellent amp/DAC. It is very neutral, and measures excellently as well. Don't see a reason to upgrade anytime soon, but I'm building a Beta22 and I might just try to implant an ODAC into the same case if I'm curious enough.

Overall I'm also of the opinion that amplification and DAC's don't have such a large impact on the overall sound. Back when I still had my Little Dot MKIV I would AB between the NFB-12 back and forth, and while there were some differences they weren't exactly huge.
In my opinion and experience the headphones/speakers have the greatest effect on sound signature, and I'd like to keep it that way. beyersmile.png
Edited by Tilpo - 5/19/12 at 1:36am
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