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Sennheiser HD650 Impressions Thread - Page 446

post #6676 of 36888

OK I think that's just the music and the movie because the bass line on this hip hop song works just fine up high in volume, no distortion.

post #6677 of 36888

Low quality recordings/encodings can have crackling distortion. Low bass in youtube songs is a prime example.

post #6678 of 36888
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post

I see where you're going, and I agree with you.  And unfortunately there's no real way to test that.   I had the perfect setup to try since I was having something of an "I got my 650's fixed party".  I had available two HD650s, two Lyrs (though even identical model amps aren't going to be identical) with identical model tubes.  It would have been almost easy to do a blind test.  Except given the difference in feel/stiffness between the stock cable and any thicker after-market cable, it's always easy to tell which cable you're wearing on your head, eyes closed or not.  A more fair test would be two supposedly different aftermarket cables that have a similar weight/stiffness since then you can't tell which cable you're wearing.

 

I may be able to do a more useful test of just that in the next week or so.  I decided to try a silver cable since I've long been curious, and I'm not interested in dumping $1500 on HD800 at present, it seemed like a fun thing to try.   I suspect that will be more similar in weight and stiffness to the Cardas so I should be able to compare the two of those in a genuine blind environment.

 

I know the audio science spiel....I've given it plenty of times myself wink.gif

 

Again it depends I think on the cables being compared.  AKG's cable for example is my poster child for what not to do in a cable.  It's not just "ohh I think it's too warm" it's a matter of being built like garbage and entirely unshielded.  There's no way the signal at the headphone could be clean on that thing.  Any boutique cable should handily beat it.  Any cheapie DIY cable should handily beat it.  It's worse than Radio Shack jumper wire....  HD650's cable is more of a mixed bag...it's not horribly bad in the AKG sense of the word, however I do suspect its the same exact type of "colored by defects" cable as many boutique cables.  It's at least shielded, unlike AKG.

 

I have my doubts as to what differences, if any, could be made between most boutique cables other than the ones going out of their way to add euophonic distortion, or an already good stock cable like the DIY-grade Canare Star Quad that comes with HiFiMan headphones ($15 to replace, cheaper than Senn and infinitely nicer), or the Denon cable that's of the same UP-OCC grade that most boutique cables are (meaning it's already a boutique cable in the box....hard to top that.)

 

In actuality I don't think there will ever be a close to the cable debate.  The amount of change is so miniscule so as to be below the margin of error in any test and easily written off by anyone looking at such data as being irrelevant in difference.  And yet audiophiles are all about OCD and small minute, barely measurable changes..  Unfortunately I think the measurements crowd and the cable crowd aren't so much in disagreement as to if there's a difference so much as to if the difference is of enough significance to matter.  The claim that there are no measurable differences is only half-true, there are no measurable differences above the margin of error.  Which means there are measurable differences but it has been determined to be insignificant to hearing and below the reliability of the measuring equipement to be accurate. The cable crowd feels it is significant to hearing.  Who's right?

 

An example of measurable difference in the extreme is silver cable.  One of the primary reasons for some silver cable designs was pro audio where it gave roughly a +3db boost to signal in some cases resulting from less loss/attenuation, allowing more headroom on the mixing boards.  To say there's no objective measurable difference between copper cable A and silver cable B in that situation would be a whole-hearted lie.  To say it has no alteration on frequency or impulse repsonse would then be more open to debate.  Perhaps it measures the same in relative terms.  Perhaps there is shift.  Obviously it would have to be level-matched to test etc.   Since the object of debate is miniscule hard to detect differences some feel they notice while experts claim they shouldn't, there will never be an end to it.

 

If two cables test at exactly the same resistance, capacitance, impedance, show identical voltage and current readings at the output given the same source at the same level, then they should indeed sound identical.  If there is difference, any difference at all, even within the margin of error (the part that is probably under real debate, but not in so many words, is where should the margin of error really be set) then it's believable that difference may be real.  That much I can agree on. 

 

I'm still not a believer in most of the snake oil being sold, and am no way a "cable evangelist"...the differences are indeed miniscule, but I can no longer objectively state that I believe there is no audible difference between cables, at least those using radically different gauges, common-drain vs 4 conductor configuration, shielded vs unshielded (both cable and conductor), and different base metals/alloys.  Those are very simple and electrically identifiable sources for differences that all things equal should have an effect on conduction.  The snake oil behind a certain magic braiding changing the skin effect....that's a different mess entirely.... rolleyes.gif

 

 

Thanks for your very well-written answer. An interesting read indeed and I can totally respect your stance.

If the difference between cables are very small changes in the sound signature, wouldn't it be easier and a lot more cost effective to just use an EQ to produce these changes? or is it believed that the drivers actually somehow become better with different cables attached?

post #6679 of 36888
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post

Hmmm maybe it is not worth even bothering with then... I was considering replacing my Cambridge audio interconnect with something like QED basic copper interconnect.... TBH I think I may well be wasting my money and better spending it on something else instead. Does length hve any measuarable effect?

 

It depends on how much money you're spending and what other upgrades you wish for.  If you don't desire headphone upgrades and just want to play with making your 650's the best 650s you can make them, there's no harm on spending some money on some experiments.  If you're looking at upgrading sources/amps down along the line, you're probably much better off saving your money for those upgrades which will do a lot more for the sound than any cable changes.  Cables are for fine-tune tweaking after the rest of the system is in place.
  Those are enough of a "designer" cable line that they may well sound different.  So it really depends on where you intend to go with your audio budget over what timeframe as to if it is worthwhile. 

 

Under 15ft, length should have no effect.  Under 25ft, length should have little to no effect provided a suitable heavy gauge is used. Over 25ft things start to get messy, and that's where you start getting into very thick cables and balanced cables (where the signal is sent twice, once 180deg out of phase, and then differenced back together in the analog domain on the receiving side.) Contrary to amp maker mythology, balanced is all about run length, and over 25ft becomes almost mandatory for near-flawless signaling without the use of repeaters.)

 

The part that's funny is that headphones have this surge of available balanced configurations, while home audio, where people are often using 25+ft runs where it would help, tend not to come in balanced flavors as readily.  The biggest advantage, in reality, of balanced amps is probably the elimination of the stereo TRS jack and moving it to two separate jacks.   Unbalanced RCA, banana taps, or twin mono-TS plug connectors on headphones would probably accomplish most of the same potential for improvement.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by trimer1 View Post

I am new to this forum but I have been in the audio hobby for at least 7 years. I know cables are a huge debate and that everyone has a different experience and opinion, and I respect that. My experience is that after some gauge or material there is no measurable difference. Last year I sneak up in one of the school signal labs and tested some of my headphone cables with a TDR, The impedance differences of the cable at audible frequencies where not significant at all. Skin effect start getting really bad until MHz frequencies. The cables I tested were the original HD650 cable, Zu mobius and Moon Audio Blue Dragon. Again this is just my opinion, I think cables DO make a difference, but getting cables that are worth as much or twice the value of the headphones is too much.

 

The first line I think is one of the most important, and is the type of statement that I formerly had never read carefully enough to appreciate.  The differences may not be significant at all, but they do exist within the margin of error.  Many people will read that and read "see, there's no measured difference" when what you really said was that there was no significant difference, but there was a measured difference determined to be insignificant.   Which returns us to the real idea behind the cable debate is just how much difference enters the realm of significance to someone who is critically listening for said difference, versus the amount of difference that's genuinely below audibility.  The other part of the debate that doesn't get mentioned often is, much much of "insignificant" means "can't be heard" versus "the mind will adjust quickly and won't notice any difference after a few moments, thus is insignificant."  For most people there's no difference between those two conditions, but for obsessive audio hobbyists, there's a world of difference between those two phrases.

 

The cable debate is a decades-long debate where most of the debaters can't even agree upon what they're actually debating, what they agree upon, and what the actual meanings of the terminology used to describe tests are rolleyes.gif

 

I also agree with you on the crazy cables costing as much as headphones.  Senn helped that along with the price increase though. I could never justify silver cable before because it cost almost as much as I paid for the headphones.  Now that the cans are pushed back to $500, the cable seems reasonable for them tongue.gif   It does seem that most of the price of cables is the manual labor for hand assembling them and the special tools and the like for producing them in batches.  I wish I were more handy with a soldering iron, I'd be trying more experiments with it.  A 5ft Blue Dragon (the cable you tested) runs ~$200 with the connectors etc.  But if you just buy the parts it can be made for $80 or so, a perfectly reasonable price for stuff made in relatively small batches including proprietary headphone connectors.  I can understand with labor and special tools and the small customer base how a cable could run $200 and pull in enough money to pay the bills as a business.  If it were mass-produced on an automated line in Sennheiser quantities it would probably sell for $50.  But the cables running for $300+ (excluding silver up to $300 or so, just because the market price on precious metals is through the roof right now and you are, effectively, buying similar quantities of precious metal as some jewelry) are insane. 

 

Denon's a great example of what these cables really are worth, since they include a similar grade cable in the box. Then again they had MSRPs of $500, 700, and 1,000 on their three headphones with said cable...)  Even if you include $200 for the cable, they're still expensive headphones wink.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtaylor991 View Post

OK I think that's just the music and the movie because the bass line on this hip hop song works just fine up high in volume, no distortion.

 

Glad to hear it.  Damaged drivers tend to buzz very badly.  I know....  However the volume of noise that would be needed to damage said drivers would be enough to have caused either hearing damage or severe concern about hearing damage had they been damaged while they were on your ears.  My drivers were damaged by an amp malfunction while, thankfully, they were not on my head.  The loud pop from 3ft away was surprising.  Had it been on my head, I would probably have some measure of hearing loss. Once can't mistake the sound of a damaged HD650 driver.  My one side lost all bass response (it was just gone) and picked up severe buzzing/vibration at elevated volume.  The other side fared better but also had buzzing/heavy distortion at higher volumes. 

 

But it takes a much bigger hit than just watching movies to do that kind of damage, and is unrelated to frequency, only to amplitude (volume.)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellygoose View Post

 

 

Thanks for your very well-written answer. An interesting read indeed and I can totally respect your stance.

If the difference between cables are very small changes in the sound signature, wouldn't it be easier and a lot more cost effective to just use an EQ to produce these changes? or is it believed that the drivers actually somehow become better with different cables attached?

 

Thanks! 

 

The trouble with EQ, is all that can do is change the levels at different parts of the FR curve, and thus alter the tonal balance.  The kind of analog distortions that would be caused by cables, tubes, etc, are more integrated into the signal than just FR level change as it would change timbre, the "attack" (decay, leading/trailing edge emphasis, etc) of each impulse potentially more or less at different frequencies, and potentially lead to a modified perception of "speed" and "detail" (impulse response rate over decay) as a result.  Many of the same things that DAC differences affect.  It also can't do things like frequency compression which a forgiving/warm/smooth/non-fatiguing cable or tube may do. (Incidentally, this is also what I believe the HD650 driver itself does which is one of the things that makes the driver so anti-fatiguing with the rolloffs yet still detailed.  I suspect by design it has some very slight compression type shift of higher and lower frequency impulses into more centric frequencies near the edges, thus preserving the detail while keeping it from fatiguing and as a result slightly warm/dark/smooth.  It is probably also one of the reasons some accuse it of not being very dynamic and contributes to it being one of the most loved yet misunderstood headphones.  It's just a suspicion from listening, not a fact based on knowledge of its design.)

 

Ultimately analog type distortions are virtually impossible to replicate in the digital domain, but if one were to try, to do the types of changes that tubes and cables do, should one subscribe to the cable point of view, you wouldn't need an EQ but a DSP.  An average DSP does far more harm than good in most cases, and a good studio-grade DSP will cost many times the price of the most exotic cables and tubes and still provides a less "chaotically natural" manipulation of signal.  There are cheap/free software DSP solutions, but that assumes PC-as-a-source, and most of those DSPs are more about "effects" or special processing like crossfade, not the more complex programmable DSP type options for offering simulated analogue distortion used at the studio/theater/venue level.

 

I think too many people look to cables as a means of equalization, the ability to change the tonal balance of a headphone.  And one of the reasons I believe cables are mentioned so often with HD650 versus other headphones is because of the volume of people who bought HD650 but misunderstood its sound, or have a poorly matched impedance or voltage on their amplifier and want to try to "fix" it by livening it up with a cable in hopes of changing the signature.  I don't believe cables will ever change a headphone's signature or truly affect the tonal balance or "equalize." 

 

Other than eliminating small distortions caused by the crosstalk interferance in common-drain (3 conductor) designs (again, AKG as the reference, the headphone is a "reference" for audio, the cable is a "reference" for poor egnineering rolleyes.gif, I believe the 650 cable is 4-conductor), eliminating interference/"leakage"/attenuation from improperly shielded designs (AKG runs unshielded, 650 sheilds the cable itself, but not the conductors I believe so crosstalk is possible, not between channels, but between signal and return), the biggest thing that cables change isn't so much on the tonal-balance scale (though a different conductor such as silver may bias the balance toward treble somewhat as a side-effect) and for the most part I'm not even sure they "improve detail" (though they will if any of the above flaws, or specific metaerials impurities affected conduction in the cable it is replacing). I think the main minor differences that cable fans probably hear (specifically between one boutique cable of the same material to another, that supposedly has a difference) is probably differences in impulse response as well as intentional attenuation, or lack of, of high frequency.  The infamous "PRaT" effectively meaning minimal distortion from peak to peak of how centered the crest of the peak remains by the time it gets to the coil. 

 

To better visualize my theory think of a graph of the sine wave, and think of it much more exaggerated than the reality of what we're talking about with a cable: The cable that "sounds the most detailed"  would be the one that maintains perfectly centered crests on each impulse peak with the sharpest edge to the curve, meaning minimum bloom of the crest (caused by a little lost energy of the crest, and dissipation of that energy partially into the rest of the peak below it (using only terminology from the graph of the waveform) thus rounding the edge of the measured peak slightly.  The "warmest" cable or "smoothest" cable would be the one with the roundest peaks, and possibly additional HF attenuation, or some attenuation/distortion rounding out the lower frequencies. One that "sounds the most open/airy" would likely have a shift of the crest a little back to the right on the impulse so there is a longer buildup or more "air" to the impulse crest followed by a rapid, abrupt decay (keeping in mind HD650 aready has very fast decay in terms of diaphragm snap leading to its natural airy sound.)

 

Obviously, assuming all good conducors, the differences would be very trivial to hear or look at graphs of.  But if one were to assign a graphed effect that is electrically realistic to what various cable claims suggest, that is, in my opinion, what the cable effect is, would measure as, and why it's very different from what equalizers do. 

 

Incidentally, I don't subscribe to the "cable differences can't be measured by equipment, only the ear" point of view.  My line of thought is on the lines of "they're both right."  Aside from the whole issue of the differences being exceptionally minor, and aside from the idea that the brain will adapt quickly so it doesn't matter.  If we assume that the audiophiles that hear the differences really are hearing genuine differences, and that it does matter for their brains, I believe it would also be safe to assume that the difference is indeed repeatably measurable and that the current flaws in measurement involve a combination of not testing all the relevant variables and setting the margin of error too high compared to what patterns may be visible between tests within that margin based on a flawed assumption of what should be detectable to humans versus what is detectable to humans.

 

Of course theorizing about these measurements is very different than finally getting to a point of having reliable measurements of them that everyone can agree on.  So the debate will rage on wink.gif  But there's hope.  Nwavguy's review of HD650 last year finally confirmed driver burn-in through admittedly minor, but measurable, differences pre and post burn-in.  As something of the king of measurements these days, his measuring of those differences was a significant event compared to the number of burn-in non-believers popcorn.gif

post #6680 of 36888
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtaylor991 View Post

I think he was pointing out that upgrading the cable outside the headphone is useless and can't change the sound if it is going through the same "last mile" (that's just the term I know, I can elaborate) bit of wire from the plugs to the driver on the inside of the headphone through sarcasm, and I can't disagree with the logic, although I've never tried it myself. Maybe someone can elaborate on how this works for me/us? I've seen that argument about that last bit of wire before.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post

 

I think he was joking due to your detailed every-step-of-the-way purchase list, unless you're a DIY ultra-warrior, Keeper of the Sacred Dremel. 

 

The wire running from the pins to the driver is about a half an inch or so and is a piece of copper literally about the thickness of a human hair.  I'm sure some people have modded it because they simply can, but I haven't encountered anyone who has done so.  There was a repair description somewhere with that hairline wire because early models had an issue with the spring clips on them.  The wire is soldered right onto the driver, and I doubt you want to mess with that wink.gif

 

Thanks for explanation. If it is only a copper wire about the thickness of human hair which connected to the driver, I am not going to mess with that. If I really want to change that cable, I will get an experienced/certified person to do it but I think the cost of get that done by experienced/certified person would be too expensive (delivery charges, wire and workmanship).

post #6681 of 36888

I found this.  It says it is from an HD600.

 

SennDriver.jpg

post #6682 of 36888
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenthumb View Post

I found this.  It says it is from an HD600.

 

SennDriver.jpg

what I was trying to convey in a nutshell/picture

post #6683 of 36888

Every other headphone seems to have a similar wire going to the driver. Not different, just shorter.

You'd think that a cable upgrade would make no difference but that hasn't been the case at all.

Just look at the Q701. Inside the shell you also have the stock wiring also. Many people don't know this. So basically you're attaching a $20-$2000 cable upgrade to a cheap wire.

 

I don't know how on earth you can still get a benefit from attaching a cable, but there is some. Less so than going straight to the drivers.

I can attach a silver plated copper wire to my Tony Bennett headphone and still hear a difference quite easily. It doesn't magically sound like the stock wiring despite what some may think.

 

I've tested dozens of various types of wires and it's always seemed like the higher capacitance wire sounded warmer and the lower capacitance stuff was brighter. Don't know why or how, but it's interesting.

The Mogami and Canare Starquad i've found are not a good match for the HD-650 IMO. Somehow high capacitance wire always seems to effect the treble of my headphones. I don't like it.

 

With my Double Helix cable there is basically very little improvement if I used it with just a portable device like an Ipod. I probably would never buy any fancy cable if I didn't have a good computer DAC and revealing amp.

That's another thing someone can figure out. I actually could often not tell the difference between cheap DIY cable upgrades until I got my HRT MSII. Bizarre.

 

I'm a huge believer that the wrong wiring can ruin a headphones sound signature. I've had this happen with the HD-598 and DHC or Belden 1192A and the HD-650 with Canare. There's also CA-0363 which makes my Q701 a little more harsh. I use Canare with the Q701 because it makes it even warmer, similar to the K601.

 

Sure wish all wire sounded the same to me, but none of it has. The saying "Copper is Copper" is the dumbest thing ever to me.

 

BTW I don't think any headphones has ever made more than a 10% improvement in sound for me. The only way I can stand the HD-600 is with DHC or some other similar wire. DHC is similar to Belden 1192A I think (both are low capacitance). Stock wiring on the HD-600 is just really bad to me. ANY $1.50/foot wire is going to be better.

 

I wonder how many of these cable haters have ever actually recabled a headphone for fun to test things out with their own ears? Probably ZERO. I'm sure theres a wire out that that will retain the stock signature of a headphone, but I haven't heard it yet. Closest match was Mogami, which I love. It's good and cheap. I do think it's a mistake to recable a headphone for more bass or more treble. The difference won't ever be that large to begin with.

 

Then this idea that a wire has to have a measurable difference for there to be some sort of benefit is non-sense. So many headphones with similar graphs, but none of them could sound any more different.

 

If you don't believe in wires making a difference, try to recable an HD-650 with Monoprice Cat 6. Your jaw will drop. $20 on plugs and under $5 on everything else. I'm not yet convinced that any wire is really worth $100+..yet. I do think half of the cost of the pre-made cables is going into labor. Nothing new there. I do feel that ALO SXC wire is worth it in bulk. I'm also a huge fan of this $40 Cardas cable I bought recently. I use it with my Tony Bennett headphones or with my amps. Don't think i'd ever fork over $200 for their HD-650/Q701 cable, but maybe someday i'll try it out. I do think that with a little trial and error you can find a $1/foot wire that sounds similar to the stupid expensive bulk wire..I think Belden 1192A should be similar to the DHC wire.

 

Someone laughed at me once for claiming wire could effect soundstage. If you don't believe me, try that Cat 6 out. You'll be out of $6 for a little test.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenthumb View Post

I found this.  It says it is from an HD600.

 

SennDriver.jpg

post #6684 of 36888
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post

I wonder how many of these cable haters have ever actually recabled a headphone for fun to test things out with their own ears? Probably ZERO. I'm sure theres a wire out that that will retain the stock signature of a headphone, but I haven't heard it yet. Closest match was Mogami, which I love. It's good and cheap. I do think it's a mistake to recable a headphone for more bass or more treble. The difference won't ever be that large to begin with.

 

Then this idea that a wire has to have a measurable difference for there to be some sort of benefit is non-sense. So many headphones with similar graphs, but none of them could sound any more different.

 

If you don't believe in wires making a difference, try to recable an HD-650 with Monoprice Cat 6. Your jaw will drop. $20 on plugs and under $5 on everything else. I'm not yet convinced that any wire is really worth $100+..yet. I do think half of the cost of the pre-made cables is going into labor. Nothing new there. I do feel that ALO SXC wire is worth it in bulk. I'm also a huge fan of this $40 Cardas cable I bought recently. I use it with my Tony Bennett headphones or with my amps. Don't think i'd ever fork over $200 for their HD-650/Q701 cable, but maybe someday i'll try it out. I do think that with a little trial and error you can find a $1/foot wire that sounds similar to the stupid expensive bulk wire..I think Belden 1192A should be similar to the DHC wire.

 

Someone laughed at me once for claiming wire could effect soundstage. If you don't believe me, try that Cat 6 out. You'll be out of $6 for a little test.

 

 

The problem, as pointed out by me (and most likely others) before, is that unless you can make a proper blind test with the cables the test would serve no purpose. People are more or less guaranteed to hear differences even on two identical systems if they believe that there is one (i.e get told that one of the systems is something else); it's called listening bias / sighted listening and it is a very well documented phenomena. The set-up required to do a proper blind-test on cables on a headphone is very expensive: two headphones (although the time it would take to switch phone would invalidate the result, not to mention the inherent differences from headphone to headphone) or some kind of dual wired solution were you could with the click of a button switch between wires (hard to build, I guess ?).

 

But $6 you say.. do you have a link or anything ? If i could get my hands on it (or something equivalent) in my country for that cheap then I would definitely want to test it. If nothing else it wouldn't hurt to have a spare cable :-)


Edited by Jellygoose - 5/17/12 at 4:35pm
post #6685 of 36888
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellygoose View Post

 

The problem, as pointed out by me (and most likely others) before, is that unless you can make a proper blind test with the cables the test would serve no purpose. People are more or less guaranteed to hear differences even on two identical systems if they believe that there is one (i.e get told that one of the systems is something else); it's called listening bias / sighted listening and it is a very well documented phenomena. The set-up required to do a proper blind-test on cables on a headphone is very expensive: two headphones (although the time it would take to switch phone would invalidate the result, not to mention the inherent differences from headphone to headphone) or some kind of dual wired solution were you could with the click of a button switch between wires (hard to build, I guess ?).

 

But $6 you say.. do you have a link or anything ? If i could get my hands on it (or something equivalent) in my country for that cheap then I would definitely want to test it. If nothing else it wouldn't hurt to have a spare cable :-)


It's $1.65 at Monoprice for 7 feet:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10232&cs_id=1023207&p_id=2115&seq=1&format=2

 

The only negative is that Cat6 is a pain to work with and doesn't have very good shielding when you remove it from the plastic covering. All else that's needed is some cheap 1/8" plugs and a soldering iron. Cat 6 is amusing to use as an interconnect cable. Especially when using the HD-600 (or HD-650) for gaming. I actually think Cat 6 might have similar benefits as silver plated copper. I wonder why?

 

I love this hobby of making my own cables. Once I even tried making one out of lamp cord or whatever else I could find. Didn't turn out well since it's too hard to work with. Maybe for speaker wire it might be OK. For that I'm using whatever is cheap in the audio section of Wal-Mart. I actually don't think I could hear a difference with speaker wires on actual speakers. Maybe.

 

When I made the interconnect cable I used two wires for Left, Two for right and the rest were ground/shield. The problem with Cat6 is that it's not flexible at all and hard to make look nice without lots of experimenting.

 

HD-650 with Monoprice Cat6 would be amazing. Anyone want to take one for the team? Surely someone has some spare HD-650 plugs around right? People say to buy a new amp for the HD-650 to increase it's soundstage size. I say buy some $2 Cat 6 biggrin.gif From my understanding Cat 5 and Cat 6 are the same basically when it comes to the actual wires inside the plastic covering.

post #6686 of 36888

We are still arguing about cable matters in an HD650 Appreciation Thread? Let's not, let's enjoy the headphone and share our musings about the headphones and it's accessories, which includes cables. Not argue about sound quality different, myths, so on and so forth.

post #6687 of 36888
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenthumb View Post

I found this.  It says it is from an HD600.

 

SennDriver.jpg

 

The thin wire (thinner than a human hair) is not changeable.

 

It is actually only one wire and the two pieces are actually the start and finish of the same wire - it's the ends of the wire that form the voice-coil of the driver.

post #6688 of 36888

I wouldn't mess with the voicecoil wires. I once resoldered them on a HD25-II and let's just say- I was just a hair away from buying a new driver. Both ends are enameled so you would need to dip them into molten solder. That may mean that you need proper heatsinking to not destroy the driver by heat transfer. Also excessive heating may make the wire more brittle than it already is.

 

My advice- just don't. Even if you succeed you will end up attributing every future crackle and pop to your soldering job. Placebo works both ways.

post #6689 of 36888
Quote:
Originally Posted by RudeWolf View Post

I wouldn't mess with the voicecoil wires. I once resoldered them on a HD25-II and let's just say- I was just a hair away from buying a new driver. Both ends are enameled so you would need to dip them into molten solder. That may mean that you need proper heatsinking to not destroy the driver by heat transfer. Also excessive heating may make the wire more brittle than it already is.

My advice- just don't. Even if you succeed you will end up attributing every future crackle and pop to your soldering job. Placebo works both ways.

Good advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin Morrow View Post

We are still arguing about cable matters in an HD650 Appreciation Thread? Let's not, let's enjoy the headphone and share our musings about the headphones and it's accessories, which includes cables. Not argue about sound quality different, myths, so on and so forth.

I have observed a curse on this thread, the conversation deviates back to cables 9/10 times. It's been happening for the last year, and probably since it's inception.
post #6690 of 36888
Quote:
Originally Posted by RudeWolf View Post

I wouldn't mess with the voicecoil wires. I once resoldered them on a HD25-II and let's just say- I was just a hair away from buying a new driver. Both ends are enameled so you would need to dip them into molten solder. That may mean that you need proper heatsinking to not destroy the driver by heat transfer. Also excessive heating may make the wire more brittle than it already is.

My advice- just don't. Even if you succeed you will end up attributing every future crackle and pop to your soldering job. Placebo works both ways.
I know that feeling.
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