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Sennheiser HD650 Impressions Thread - Page 444

post #6646 of 36831

IEMCrazy, it's spelled "Lyr" (for the guy asking's sake)

 

And I had a Darkvoice 337 tube amp with the 650s, and I like my Audio-gd Compass, a solid-state $300 amp/dac/preamp combo (vs. $600 DV337) worlds better, but it could have been just that amp or just that setr of tubes specifically, but I still think it's safe to say solid State/SS is probably better for 650s. The highs/treble are a lot more prominent, as in less warm, and the highs just really shine. Don't take that as too much highs/bright, I'm just talking relative to tubes (I would have if I were reading this not having said that at least).

post #6647 of 36831

It's wrong to generalise tubes as all warmth. I've heard smoother and more refined treble from some of my tube pairs compared to the solid state Audio-GD amps I've owned in the past.

post #6648 of 36831
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtaylor991 View Post

IEMCrazy, it's spelled "Lyr" (for the guy asking's sake)

 

And I had a Darkvoice 337 tube amp with the 650s, and I like my Audio-gd Compass, a solid-state $300 amp/dac/preamp combo (vs. $600 DV337) worlds better, but it could have been just that amp or just that setr of tubes specifically, but I still think it's safe to say solid State/SS is probably better for 650s. The highs/treble are a lot more prominent, as in less warm, and the highs just really shine. Don't take that as too much highs/bright, I'm just talking relative to tubes (I would have if I were reading this not having said that at least).

Sorry for the mental typo....I had to type it off-screen, and somehow that's how it ended up turning out :)

 

I still say it's all prefereance, and it's not overly safe to say SS is "better."  It can be better depending on what one wants.  Specifically with  HD650 there are fans solidly comitted to tubes with them, and those solidly committed to SS.  My personal preferance for both HD650 and HE-400 are for the hybrid before the SS, but I can seee how a preference for SS can be held easily enough.  Your importance on the highs and reduced warmth would be consistent with that.  For me the warmth of the hybrid without much tube effect on detail is idea.  For others the creamy all tube sound is better.   

 

Ultimately there is no "better" and a better understanding of what type of result is desired is what's important.

 

(I apologize in advance for typos...I hate typing in this forum onn this computer, it forces me to type off screen and won't let me edit!)

post #6649 of 36831

IMO I prefer tubes so far from bravo to woo but since my ultimate goal is sweet sound, tubes has their advantages rolleyes.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post

I would say that the HD650 is probably better with solid state amps....

 

Admittedly I have no experiece of actually using one lol but if people say that tubes are quite soft sounding and not as dynamic, fast etc. as solid state then I would say that solid state is probably a better choice as the HD650 are already very smooth and slightly slow.

 

Maybe best way is to try it though... I admit I am talking purely from what I have read with no actual testing of a HD650 + tubes! also depends what genres you like.

post #6650 of 36831
Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post

It's wrong to generalise tubes as all warmth. I've heard smoother and more refined treble from some of my tube pairs compared to the solid state Audio-GD amps I've owned in the past.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post

Sorry for the mental typo....I had to type it off-screen, and somehow that's how it ended up turning out :)

 

I still say it's all prefereance, and it's not overly safe to say SS is "better."  It can be better depending on what one wants.  Specifically with  HD650 there are fans solidly comitted to tubes with them, and those solidly committed to SS.  My personal preferance for both HD650 and HE-400 are for the hybrid before the SS, but I can seee how a preference for SS can be held easily enough.  Your importance on the highs and reduced warmth would be consistent with that.  For me the warmth of the hybrid without much tube effect on detail is idea.  For others the creamy all tube sound is better.   

 

Ultimately there is no "better" and a better understanding of what type of result is desired is what's important.

 

(I apologize in advance for typos...I hate typing in this forum onn this computer, it forces me to type off screen and won't let me edit!)

 

Yes I recognize this, that's why I said "but it could have been just that amp or just that set of tubes specifically." I don't doubt that some tubes go nicely with the 650s, and maybe I could have been a bit more clear (pun intended biggrin.gif) on this by not saying the "better" part and leaving at that (my findings on the difference in the highs IMO).

post #6651 of 36831

At the end, I have decided to go for the Toxic Cables Cryo OCC SPC/Copper Cable for HD650 with 4 Pin Balanced Neutrik Gold Plated XLR termination. I figure that if I like the sounds of Better Cables Silver Serpent RCA cable (silver and copper) which has wider soundstage and more details, I should like the SPC/Copper Cable. I have already ordered one from Frank. I have also ordered an adapter using SPC/Copper cable with 4 Pin Female Balanced Neutrik Gold Plated XLR and 6.3mm Viablue jack so that I can connect HD650 to my Lyr.

post #6652 of 36831
Quote:
Originally Posted by weitn View Post

At the end, I have decided to go for the Toxic Cables Cryo OCC SPC/Copper Cable for HD650 with 4 Pin Balanced Neutrik Gold Plated XLR termination. I figure that if I like the sounds of Better Cables Silver Serpent RCA cable (silver and copper) which has wider soundstage and more details, I should like the SPC/Copper Cable. I have already ordered one from Frank. I have also ordered an adapter using SPC/Copper cable with 4 Pin Female Balanced Neutrik Gold Plated XLR and 6.3mm Viablue jack so that I can connect HD650 to my Lyr.


quite the budget there... so tell me: what cable do you intend to use to connect from the 2pin Sennheiserplugs on your HD650 to the driver itself?

post #6653 of 36831
Just pulled the trigger on a Sheer Audio HA-006+ to compliment my 650s. I'd been stressing over the tube vs SS choice for a few weeks. Hopefully I made the right choice.
post #6654 of 36831

Today I was testing som resampling. Never really liked it before cause its often makes sound thinner and more flat but I think that the HD650 really benefit from resampling to 96/24 ! Its open up the sound, making it airier and tames the midhump a little bit. The mids sounds more clear and less dull with this. 

post #6655 of 36831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post

Today I was testing som resampling. Never really liked it before cause its often makes sound thinner and more flat but I think that the HD650 really benefit from resampling to 96/24 ! Its open up the sound, making it airier and tames the midhump a little bit. The mids sounds more clear and less dull with this. 

 

I'm not sure headphones care about the sampling rate.  The DAC might however.

post #6656 of 36831
Quote:
Originally Posted by roBernd View Post


quite the budget there... so tell me: what cable do you intend to use to connect from the 2pin Sennheiserplugs on your HD650 to the driver itself?

 

hmm.... didn't think of that yet. For now just focusing on upgrading the headphone cable. Just taking one thing at a time. That could be my future project (probably 1 month from now after burned in the cable and enjoy it for a while and my heart gets itchy). Does it makes makes a difference upgrading the cable to the driver? If I want to do that, can I do it myself? 

post #6657 of 36831

I think he was pointing out that upgrading the cable outside the headphone is useless and can't change the sound if it is going through the same "last mile" (that's just the term I know, I can elaborate) bit of wire from the plugs to the driver on the inside of the headphone through sarcasm, and I can't disagree with the logic, although I've never tried it myself. Maybe someone can elaborate on how this works for me/us? I've seen that argument about that last bit of wire before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weitn View Post

 

hmm.... didn't think of that yet. For now just focusing on upgrading the headphone cable. Just taking one thing at a time. That could be my future project (probably 1 month from now after burned in the cable and enjoy it for a while and my heart gets itchy). Does it makes makes a difference upgrading the cable to the driver? If I want to do that, can I do it myself? 

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by weitn View Post

 

hmm.... didn't think of that yet. For now just focusing on upgrading the headphone cable. Just taking one thing at a time. That could be my future project (probably 1 month from now after burned in the cable and enjoy it for a while and my heart gets itchy). Does it makes makes a difference upgrading the cable to the driver? If I want to do that, can I do it myself? 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by roBernd View Post


quite the budget there... so tell me: what cable do you intend to use to connect from the 2pin Sennheiserplugs on your HD650 to the driver itself?

post #6658 of 36831

MAYBE it means that some audio can be lost before it gets to the inner cables...

 

Although I doubt that it makes any difference because I am somewhat of a cable critic... I doubt they make very much difference from my experience and research.

post #6659 of 36831
Quote:
Originally Posted by weitn View Post

 

hmm.... didn't think of that yet. For now just focusing on upgrading the headphone cable. Just taking one thing at a time. That could be my future project (probably 1 month from now after burned in the cable and enjoy it for a while and my heart gets itchy). Does it makes makes a difference upgrading the cable to the driver? If I want to do that, can I do it myself? 

 

I think he was joking due to your detailed every-step-of-the-way purchase list, unless you're a DIY ultra-warrior, Keeper of the Sacred Dremel. 

 

The wire running from the pins to the driver is about a half an inch or so and is a piece of copper literally about the thickness of a human hair.  I'm sure some people have modded it because they simply can, but I haven't encountered anyone who has done so.  There was a repair description somewhere with that hairline wire because early models had an issue with the spring clips on them.  The wire is soldered right onto the driver, and I doubt you want to mess with that wink.gif

post #6660 of 36831
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtaylor991 View Post

I think he was pointing out that upgrading the cable outside the headphone is useless and can't change the sound if it is going through the same "last mile" (that's just the term I know, I can elaborate) bit of wire from the plugs to the driver on the inside of the headphone through sarcasm, and I can't disagree with the logic, although I've never tried it myself. Maybe someone can elaborate on how this works for me/us? I've seen that argument about that last bit of wire before.

 

 

I've seen that before, and in a perfect world, eliminating that last bit of wire would be the ideal.  Like with any hardwired headphone.   In a slightly less perfect world, I think the way it works is that length is the killer in cables.  Even the worst cable isn't much liability at an inch, or even six.  It's as the runs get longer that it becomes more of an issue.  So (the cable theory, ignoring my stance for a moment), the idea is that the 5, 10, 15 foot run you have from the amp to the driver jack has far more effect on the sound than that last 1" will have.  If you can get a "perfect" signal to that last 1" there's not much that can go wrong from there.   Imagine tethering your headphones to your amp with a 1" cable.  Even AKG's nasty wires would be suitable.

 

It's for that reason that balanced was invented...because in pro audio the losses that start appearing after 25ft or so, and only after that length matter.  Under that length there wasn't a reason to balance it.

 

Also I think the two big things in cables (again going from the cable upgrade theory, ignoring agree/disagree stances, and especially for long runs, some of this is absolute fact) the biggest issues are about keeping the ground/return separate.  Really cheap wires (AKG!) don't even bother shielding the cable or the conductors and share a common drain wire which can introduce crosstalk.  The Senn cable at least keeps the drain wires separate, but for a 10 ft cable or so there's still plenty of room for crosstalk which better shielded cables can prevent.  Once you're up to that last 1" of wire in the driver mount, attached right into the voice coil, those wires are kept 1/4" apart from each other or so, far more spread out than in a cable jacket, so there's no real chance of crosstalk between signal and drain, and since they're on opposite sides of your head, zero chance at all for inter-channel crosstalk.

 

Whether you do or don't believe in boutique cables, those details can't be denied between cheap stuff and even $1.50/ft bulk wire like Belden and Canare, and the physical difference between a jacketed 10ft cable run carrying both channels versus the 1" of very visibly separated wire (not cable) in the driver are obvious.  There seriously is no real chance of anything going wrong at the plug, SQ wise.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post

MAYBE it means that some audio can be lost before it gets to the inner cables...

 

Although I doubt that it makes any difference because I am somewhat of a cable critic... I doubt they make very much difference from my experience and research.

 

One thing about being a cable critic like us....eventually you figure out you missed important pieces of the equation wink.gif  I laughed at the notion for years, having owned and used a Cardas, seeing no difference, and advising others the same.   Oops...I find the difference subtle but detectable now.  It's still, by far, a terrible value, and the least important part of the equation, but I can't now honestly say that I believe the idea to be myth either.  Since I'm at end-game on amp/dac and don't intend to ditch my HD650s ever, it's kind of fun playing with cables now and finding the differences.

 

Of course that's differences in good, properly made cables verus other good, properly made cables.  The bad example here is AKG's stock K70x cable.  That's an example of a truly poorly made cable, not well suited to the task.  The thing is running entirely unshielded for 8+ft.  I wouldn't accept that from a dollar store biggrin.gif

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