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Sennheiser HD650 Impressions Thread - Page 408

post #6106 of 36839

I sent a PayPal payment to another Head-Fi member who is going to sell me his used Cardas cable for my Sennheiser HD-650 headphones early this morning. Hopefully, he will package and ship it today via USPS Express mail and he will provide me with a tracking number today. I expect to receive them tomorrow. When I get them, I will post some listening impressions and that will be it. I am going to stop contributing to this community for awhile because I don't want to get the desire to upgrade my entire audio system by reading about new audio components designed for our community. It's not worth it. I have a lot of other priorities in my life that need my attention.

post #6107 of 36839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin Morrow View Post



You find the HD800 to be breathtakingly better in detail than the HD650? Hmm, IMO, I disagree on that. The recessed treble and laid back nature makes it seem less detailed. Put the HD650 on a good setup, it'll ooze detail.



LOL - I have both and the HD 800 pi**es all over the HD 650 in almost every way - I can't really listen to the HD 650 any more.

 

In both cases - the source was studio masters at 24/96 played through the Grace m902b and Grace m903.

post #6108 of 36839

Quote:
Originally Posted by SP Wild View Post
Disagreed.  It makes everything sound good because MUSIC is meant to sound good.  And with equalisation you can easily find out how the HD800s treble masks massive distortion in the subbass - which the LCD2s exhibit virtually none.  An EQ will prove it.


Don't know what you're talking about... I wasn't talking about bass at all. For one, I find the HD800 to sound vastly better in bass than the HD650, particularly sub-bass. Sorry, but that's what I hear. But I wasn't even talking about bass, I was talking about treble.

 

Many recordings don't sound good because they are FLAWED recordings, particularly revealed in the treble region (nevermind your silly anecdotes that "MUSIC is meant to sound good" - duh, that's a tautology). The point is that many recordings are bad. HD650 and LCD2 hides flawed by hiding a part of the recording. The question is, do you want part of the recording to be hidden at all? You may answer yes. To that I answer no, because I want to hear the whole music. The HD800 provides that beautifully.

 

Incidentally for many (not all) people here over 30 or 40 I suspect they have the more severe stage of upper range hearing loss and thus are physically incapable of appreciating the finer points of the HD800 except for the lower end. For such people, the LCD2 sounds better due to its superior bass presentation (although in some ways slower so it's not fully decided if it's 'superior').

 

You find the HD800 to be breathtakingly better in detail than the HD650? Hmm, IMO, I disagree on that. The recessed treble and laid back nature makes it seem less detailed. Put the HD650 on a good setup, it'll ooze detail.

 

I can only speak for the dac/amp I have, but my argument to you I will pose through a question: If the HD650 oozes detail, then why is it the HD800 oozes more detail than the HD650 by a mile (it's not subtle, it's almost the kind of difference between for example an HD202 and an HD650) from the exact same DAC/amp? You can't say it's because of the treble, because in these comparisons I use equalization to reduce the HD800 treble by 5-10db, and increase the HD650 by the same.


Edited by ac500 - 3/13/12 at 8:30am
post #6109 of 36839

I got my US Postal Service Express tracking number and a private message from another Head-Fi member with whom I bought my Cardas headphone replacement cable. I should receive delivery of my USPS Express mail package by 12:00 PM EST tomorrow.

 

I am not expecting a huge difference. I know that this is a headphone cable for my Sennheiser HD-650. It will not change the basic sound signature of these headphones. It will be a better match with my audio system since I have so much Cardas Golden Reference Power cords and Interconnects. I have heard the older Sennheiser HD-600 headphones with the older Cardas blue smurf cable years ago so I know what to expect compared to the stock cable. This is all about finding the right seasoning for my sound. Nothing more should be expected.

post #6110 of 36839
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post


You don't like the Micro Amp with the HD-650? Is it the portable or the desktop version you have? I bet it'd be a better match for the HD-600. I like that combination.

I actually had the Asgard last year and prefer the HD-650 with the Micro Amp. The Micro Amp also seems to play well with BOTH the HD-650 and K702 unlike the Asgard.

 

I think my favorite headphones for the Micro are the Q701, HD-600 and the K601. D2000 is pretty nice too, but I don't like it's signature.

 

If you don't mind, what did the Lyr improve for you with the HD-650 over the Micro Amp? I imagine there's going to be a larger soundstage, less forward sounding mids and possibly more treble? Tiny differences though.

I think it's been said before that the soundstage from the Micro Amp isn't massive, which is a plus for me. I do love the bass of the Micro Amp. Seems to do something special for the Q701. Doesn't bloat the bass though or anything.

 

Actually, I too have found that ALL my big headphones sound much different when changing amps. I think the Micro Amp is the only amp I liked the HD-650 with. Haven't tried the Lyr or M-Stage yet though.

 

Lyr has been on my radar, but I just wasn't a fan of the Asgard at all. My Micro Amp never seems to dislike many headphones.

 

 

 


I totally lost track of this thread before I replied to this....it's grown quite a bit, no wonder I couldn't find the reply again!

 

Mine is the desktop version, though keep in mind it's the old original generation desktop circa 2005-2006, not the newer editions.  I definitely dislike the HD650's with it.  All the things I thought I disliked about the HD650 were actually things I disliked about the Micro + HD650, not the 650's themselves.   I seriously can tell little difference between the Micro and either my Onkyo 5xx and Denon 23xx AVRs.  I really don't think the Micro's a bad amp, but I think it just doesn't play to the HD650's strengths, presumably due to a limited voltage swing.  I agree that it doesn't have a massive soundstage (I've commented here that "right between your ears" is an apt slogan....because that's right where the sound is.) but it's been said that Lyr doesn't have a massive soundstage either.  I found that the Micro delivered far less bass than the Lyr, though it bloated the midbass much more.  All the characteristics of insufficient voltage.

 

I've still been too lazy to try the K702 on the Micro.  Someday, I'll get around to it...  Also, did your Micro have the stock power brick (mine does) or the "second chassis" power supply? That probably makes a difference. 

 

I definitely wouldn't classify the Micro to Lyr transition as "tiny" in terms of changes.  I know you're a fan of cables, and I'll say the difference is dramatically less subtle than cabling wink.gif  You got it right with the larger soundstage, and the less forward mids, and a brighter treble, but that's only part of it.  There was much more clarity and tonal balance to the whole thing.  The Micro was extremely congested by comparison and that congestion gave way to clarity and overall balance with the Lyr.  At least the old model Micro, to me, is just a terrible match to the HD650 to the point that I don't understand why they still show the 650 in the images of the micro.  It's a well made amp, and I'll bet it performs well....with low impedance cans.   If you like yours though, that's what counts!  I also find it interesting that you like the Micro much more than the Asgard.  I would have thought they'd actually be very similar in terms of voltage/current ratio for the HD650s.  

 

It will be interesting to see you opinions if you do get a Lyr.   I followed your Q701 discussion and are a good part of the reason I got the K702!  (If there's merit to the warmth of the Q, I wanted to go the cold, bright, analytical route to have something polar opposite the HD650 for my collection biggrin.gif

 


Edited by IEMCrazy - 3/13/12 at 12:45pm
post #6111 of 36839
^ ^ ^
Insufficient voltage swing has far more dramatic results than what you describe. It doesn't change frequency response, but rather introduces gobs of distortion and even clipping.
If the voltage swing isn't high enough I'd be surprised you'd even be able to listen to the cans without cowering away in fear of the dreadful sound.
post #6112 of 36839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tilpo View Post

^ ^ ^
Insufficient voltage swing has far more dramatic results than what you describe. It doesn't change frequency response, but rather introduces gobs of distortion and even clipping.
If the voltage swing isn't high enough I'd be surprised you'd even be able to listen to the cans without cowering away in fear of the dreadful sound.


"Congested/bloated" very likely comes from minor distortion, though I can't say anything about clipping.  I didn't quite cower away in fear of the dreadful sound, but I was ready to splurge on new cans and did give up the big cans for a while in favor of IEMs.  But the sound wasn't HORRIBLE...either.  Though now that I've heard the 650's opened up I strongly doubt I could go back either.   If it gives you an idea of how muddled they were though, the thing that convinced me to not buy new cans and to buy a new amp instead was discovering that the Fiio E11 made my 650's sound better than my Micro did. 

 

Not the kind of horrible you described though, they were still better on the Micro than, say, my sibilant (but very crisp) closed back Sony MDR-7406's straight out of a PC soundcard.  But not close to the hi-fi experience they can really be, either.

 

If voltage wasn't the issue, I'm not sure what was.  Dirty power, impedance, I don't know.  It didn't sound defective either.

 

 

post #6113 of 36839

I just purchased the HD 650 from razordog on ebay at a 22% discount and I was told by other forum members that I could have bought them for even cheaper.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by peanuthead View Post

HD800 has high resolution, not based on "brighness" but based on its ability to present detail and information at all registers...
In any case, this is a HD650 appreciation thread, and I am a fan of HD650.  It was a big mistake to sell it...just can't move myself to buy it again at the current going price...



 



 

post #6114 of 36839
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWbirdseye View Post

I just purchased the HD 650 from razordog on ebay at a 22% discount and I was told by other forum members that I could have bought them for even cheaper.

 



 



I paid 350.00 shipped from razordog.

post #6115 of 36839
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post


I totally lost track of this thread before I replied to this....it's grown quite a bit, no wonder I couldn't find the reply again!

 

Mine is the desktop version, though keep in mind it's the old original generation desktop circa 2005-2006, not the newer editions.  I definitely dislike the HD650's with it.  All the things I thought I disliked about the HD650 were actually things I disliked about the Micro + HD650, not the 650's themselves.   I seriously can tell little difference between the Micro and either my Onkyo 5xx and Denon 23xx AVRs.  I really don't think the Micro's a bad amp, but I think it just doesn't play to the HD650's strengths, presumably due to a limited voltage swing.  I agree that it doesn't have a massive soundstage (I've commented here that "right between your ears" is an apt slogan....because that's right where the sound is.) but it's been said that Lyr doesn't have a massive soundstage either.  I found that the Micro delivered far less bass than the Lyr, though it bloated the midbass much more.  All the characteristics of insufficient voltage.

 

I've still been too lazy to try the K702 on the Micro.  Someday, I'll get around to it...  Also, did your Micro have the stock power brick (mine does) or the "second chassis" power supply? That probably makes a difference. 

 

I definitely wouldn't classify the Micro to Lyr transition as "tiny" in terms of changes.  I know you're a fan of cables, and I'll say the difference is dramatically less subtle than cabling wink.gif  You got it right with the larger soundstage, and the less forward mids, and a brighter treble, but that's only part of it.  There was much more clarity and tonal balance to the whole thing.  The Micro was extremely congested by comparison and that congestion gave way to clarity and overall balance with the Lyr.  At least the old model Micro, to me, is just a terrible match to the HD650 to the point that I don't understand why they still show the 650 in the images of the micro.  It's a well made amp, and I'll bet it performs well....with low impedance cans.   If you like yours though, that's what counts!  I also find it interesting that you like the Micro much more than the Asgard.  I would have thought they'd actually be very similar in terms of voltage/current ratio for the HD650s.  

 

It will be interesting to see you opinions if you do get a Lyr.   I followed your Q701 discussion and are a good part of the reason I got the K702!  (If there's merit to the warmth of the Q, I wanted to go the cold, bright, analytical route to have something polar opposite the HD650 for my collection biggrin.gif

 


I got my Micro Amp in summer of 2011. It's the version with this massive power brick outside the amp that's even larger than the amp itself. It seems very powerful to me and luckily has driven everything i've thrown at it, including the K400 and K501. Even 600 ohm headphones. The DT-770 600 was pretty impressive with it. I will say it's the best amp i've ever heard with the Q701. I remember comparing the HD-650 with the E9, Asgard and Micro Amp and preferred the Micro Amp by far. I'd say the Asgard and the Micro Amp for the HD-600 were probably tied. This Micro Amp makes the Asgard seem like a weakling in terms of power, but from my understanding, the Asgard is meant for the easier to drive stuff and not the 600 ohm monsters. I've never found the HD-650/600 too hard to drive.

 

Strangely enough, the only amp I loved the HD-650 with was the Micro. Chances are it will get even better with the Lyr, but maybe not. The slightly smaller soundstage of the Micro Amp doesn't do the hD-650 any favors. When comparing amps it's not that big of a difference in soundstage size. Unlike the Asgard, i've yet to heard a headphone sound bad from the Micro Amp.

 

I wonder if the HD-650 is decent with the Matrix M-Stage? My Micro uses 7 of the op-amps found in the M-Stage, so there is a chance they may have a similar signature or sound. I doubt anyone here has tried both..let alone the HD-650 with the M-Stage. Maybe the M-Stage is too dark for the HD-650.

 

Lyr and the M-Stage have been on my radar for awhile now. I wasn't a fan of the Asgard at all (loved it for the HD-600/D2000 though), so hopefully the Lyr can sound good with BOTH the HD-650 and K702/Q701.

 

post #6116 of 36839


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ac500 View Post


Don't know what you're talking about... I wasn't talking about bass at all. For one, I find the HD800 to sound vastly better in bass than the HD650, particularly sub-bass. Sorry, but that's what I hear. But I wasn't even talking about bass, I was talking about treble.

 

Many recordings don't sound good because they are FLAWED recordings, particularly revealed in the treble region (nevermind your silly anecdotes that "MUSIC is meant to sound good" - duh, that's a tautology). The point is that many recordings are bad. HD650 and LCD2 hides flawed by hiding a part of the recording. The question is, do you want part of the recording to be hidden at all? You may answer yes. To that I answer no, because I want to hear the whole music. The HD800 provides that beautifully.

 

Incidentally for many (not all) people here over 30 or 40 I suspect they have the more severe stage of upper range hearing loss and thus are physically incapable of appreciating the finer points of the HD800 except for the lower end. For such people, the LCD2 sounds better due to its superior bass presentation (although in some ways slower so it's not fully decided if it's 'superior').

 

I am inclined to believe, as the passing of time renders myself better equiped with knowledge passed on from a place such as this...that perhaps one should ponder upon so called "flawed" recordings.  To what reason it is, that such recordings should be percieved as flawed.  I find myself questioning the capabilities and intentions of the men whom have created such artworks, and, as the years ravage my youthfulness, I start to believe that the sonic perceptions of these men could not be much inferior to mine, if at all.  The years may have decimated my strength, nevertheless, to the same same extent it has strengthend my resolve.  I am certain that all the common arguments for flawed music hold answers for which may well be elsewhere.

 

You find the HD800 to be breathtakingly better in detail than the HD650? Hmm, IMO, I disagree on that. The recessed treble and laid back nature makes it seem less detailed. Put the HD650 on a good setup, it'll ooze detail.

 

I can only speak for the dac/amp I have, but my argument to you I will pose through a question: If the HD650 oozes detail, then why is it the HD800 oozes more detail than the HD650 by a mile (it's not subtle, it's almost the kind of difference between for example an HD202 and an HD650) from the exact same DAC/amp? You can't say it's because of the treble, because in these comparisons I use equalization to reduce the HD800 treble by 5-10db, and increase the HD650 by the same.

 

It is strange to believe, that if I am so inclined to believe your suggestion that my elderly stature may have left me with hearing not so acute, that I should disagree with the above argument and stand with yourself in regards to the two instruments being discussed.  In due time, perhaps your point of view shall change...providing of course that time is more generous to your senses than it has mine.

 

I do hope perhaps one day, that you should realise that time itself could be advantageous to the virile and youthful.  This old man shall no longer engage in these pointless arguments and bid you good night.
 

 

post #6117 of 36839

I never got my Cardas headphone replacement cable for my Sennheiser HD-650 headphones yesterday even though it is an USPS Express mail package with a guaranteed delivery date of March 14th, 2012 by 12:00 PM. The last scan information from USPS.com indicates that it is in Boston, MA 02205. I am going to call the six US post offices in Boston, MA and I will talk with the postmasters to figure out what happened to my express mail package. This is the first USPS express mail package that I received in years and it failed to show up on time at all. I have to sell my Moon Audio Blue Dragon cable soon so I won't have an aftermarket cable for my Sennheiser HD-650 headphones by the end of this week.

 

Next time, go with UPS or FedEx. They are much more reliable. I never had any problems with FedEx or UPS in the past.

post #6118 of 36839

This is the USPS' fault. It is not the fault of the shipper who is a Head-Fi member here. He did everything right by me.

post #6119 of 36839

It made it into Kearny, NJ 07032. It is one of the primary USPS sort facilities in New Jersey. It hope that it will get delivered to my home today.

 

I used to trust USPS, but I have to reconsider that now. Thankfully, this is not critical to my graduate studies at Princeton University such as textbooks or research materials.

post #6120 of 36839
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoebeFairchild View Post

I never got my Cardas headphone replacement cable for my Sennheiser HD-650 headphones yesterday even though it is an USPS Express mail package with a guaranteed delivery date of March 14th, 2012 by 12:00 PM. The last scan information from USPS.com indicates that it is in Boston, MA 02205. I am going to call the six US post offices in Boston, MA and I will talk with the postmasters to figure out what happened to my express mail package. This is the first USPS express mail package that I received in years and it failed to show up on time at all. I have to sell my Moon Audio Blue Dragon cable soon so I won't have an aftermarket cable for my Sennheiser HD-650 headphones by the end of this week.

 

Next time, go with UPS or FedEx. They are much more reliable. I never had any problems with FedEx or UPS in the past.


 stock cable is excellent

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