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Sennheiser HD650 Impressions Thread - Page 325

post #4861 of 36844

I'm planning on getting the HD650 and Micro Amp in a couple weeks for all the reasons you mentioned. I've exchanged several emails with Jorge at HeadRoom and he's very responsive and helpful and his service alone has pretty much sold me on trying any of their products. I'm very happy with the carrying case/bag I ordered from them earlier this year. I'm also excited to try the crossfeed as I listen to some old jazz recordings that I bet could benefit.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by colmustard View Post

 



From my experience I'm a fan of headroom. I recently upgraded from my fiio e7/e9 to a headroom desktop amp + power supply for roughly a grand. Was it worth the upgrade? With the hd650s, you betcha. With my pro 900s though I can barely hear a difference.

 

Overall their products are a little expensive, but with that expense you get fantastic build quality, unbelievable support, a 30 day trial money back guarantee, and that warm fuzzy feeling of supporting an American business that's just doing things right. I had actually originally ordered the micor dac & amp combo but decided to cancel it and go for the desktop.

 

My 2cents.



 

post #4862 of 36844

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyD View Post

I'm planning on getting the HD650 and Micro Amp in a couple weeks for all the reasons you mentioned. I've exchanged several emails with Jorge at HeadRoom and he's very responsive and helpful and his service alone has pretty much sold me on trying any of their products. I'm very happy with the carrying case/bag I ordered from them earlier this year. I'm also excited to try the crossfeed as I listen to some old jazz recordings that I bet could benefit.
 



 



I'm not a big fan of the crossfeed with the 650s.

post #4863 of 36844


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwillia2 View Post




Thanks Austin.  I had not seen that one.  

 

 

 



Any day.

 

post #4864 of 36844

Well I really want to try it regardless. Seen some others say they really like it, including in this review: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/headroom2/desktop.html (granted that's not the micro amp).

post #4865 of 36844

I've only owned them for a few hours, but I already have a really hard time understanding why some people find them either slow, veiled or muddy. They're not perfect for sure, at least with my subpar temporary setup, but I've got a Stax 2170 right next to them to compare.

 

The main difference in terms of details, to me, is that while the HD 650 is around the same level (maybe a bit less) of details than the Stax, those details aren't push forward at all. They're there, but you have to concentrate on them to care about them, while the Stax naturally make them jump at your face (which can be either good or bad). 

The only area where I hear a clear difference in terms of details would be up top, where I find the HD 650 (still, on my poor setup), quite confused. I think that's the only area where it may lack in speed in my opinion. I also feel it lacks the super-black background of the Stax (the feeling that sound comes from nowhere, at least not from a driver inches from your ears). I even read somewhere somebody saying that he thought his P5 were more detailed than his HD 650. Good lord that's something I really do not get. I also don't understand why some call them "warm". I find them quite flat, with a tiny bit of forwardness in the "mid midrange", pretty much what one can see on Tyll Hetsen's graph. Very full bodied and "big" sounding though, which may give the impression that they're warm (in the same way some find the Z1000 warm, while they're clearly not in measurable terms).

 

I'm quite satisfied with it right now, and it's a pleasure to use the shuffle feature on iTunes again (I wouldn't listen to bad recording on the Stax setup, it sounded horrible). It makes everything sound better than it deserves. Hopefully the purchase of a more appropriate amp / dac should partially correct what I don't like much about the sound right now (lack of a black background, grain / confusion in the upper range, lack of texture in the bass, not open enough).

post #4866 of 36844

I got my HD650s free from a giveaway here on Headfi http://www.head-fi.org/t/536124/sennheiser-hd650 :) and i must say after 10 months with it, it does feel a little slow, at least compared to my RE0s, which have held up very well in terms of detail and speed but in terms of pure music appreciation, it is a joy, especially with tubes. Who knows, might have to upgrade to a good solid state soon?

post #4867 of 36844

Don't know, I'm not experienced enough to say anything about HD 650 amping. The TTVJ Slim is quite an articulated amp, so that might be why I don't think the HD 650 is slower than the other dynamic headphones I've tried so far. The only dynamics I tried which I found could reach the HD 650 speed were the DT 1350.

 

An example would be Juno Reactor's track "Conquistador II". It's a very fast paced percussion / beat / world instruments frenetic / hysterical trance music, and I find the HD 650 to be great with it and plenty articulated. More so than the Z1000, HD-25, ES10, etc. Only the DT 1350 gives me a roughly similar sense of speed (but otherwise it obviously is a much worse headphone, being closed and supra-aural).

My Stax setup isn't very fun with this track, but I feel it's still a bit faster in the upper registers (not so in the bass).

 

But agin, my impression may come from the fact that 1) it's a brand new version and 2) the TTVJ Slim is quite speedy and articulated.

post #4868 of 36844


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MayaTlab View Post

I've only owned them for a few hours, but I already have a really hard time understanding why some people find them either slow, veiled or muddy. They're not perfect for sure, at least with my subpar temporary setup, but I've got a Stax 2170 right next to them to compare.

 

The main difference in terms of details, to me, is that while the HD 650 is around the same level (maybe a bit less) of details than the Stax, those details aren't push forward at all. They're there, but you have to concentrate on them to care about them, while the Stax naturally make them jump at your face (which can be either good or bad). 

The only area where I hear a clear difference in terms of details would be up top, where I find the HD 650 (still, on my poor setup), quite confused. I think that's the only area where it may lack in speed in my opinion. I also feel it lacks the super-black background of the Stax (the feeling that sound comes from nowhere, at least not from a driver inches from your ears). I even read somewhere somebody saying that he thought his P5 were more detailed than his HD 650. Good lord that's something I really do not get. I also don't understand why some call them "warm". I find them quite flat, with a tiny bit of forwardness in the "mid midrange", pretty much what one can see on Tyll Hetsen's graph. Very full bodied and "big" sounding though, which may give the impression that they're warm (in the same way some find the Z1000 warm, while they're clearly not in measurable terms).

 

I'm quite satisfied with it right now, and it's a pleasure to use the shuffle feature on iTunes again (I wouldn't listen to bad recording on the Stax setup, it sounded horrible). It makes everything sound better than it deserves. Hopefully the purchase of a more appropriate amp / dac should partially correct what I don't like much about the sound right now (lack of a black background, grain / confusion in the upper range, lack of texture in the bass, not open enough).


I think veiled/not veiled has a lot to do with amplification type.  On my NFB-12 or Crack, some might say veiled, especially if comparing against a forward, ultra-detailed headphone reference point.  But on my hybrid amp, definitely not veiled.  

 

But on anything I've tried it on, definitely not overly bright either, so hard for me to identify with those few who find it an excessively bright listen.

 

 

post #4869 of 36844

I think it's more of the amp issue, since the HD650 is known to change sound signatures over a wide range of sources, it feels just a little bit cluttered on fast trance music on my setup.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MayaTlab View Post

Don't know, I'm not experienced enough to say anything about HD 650 amping. The TTVJ Slim is quite an articulated amp, so that might be why I don't think the HD 650 is slower than the other dynamic headphones I've tried so far. The only dynamics I tried which I found could reach the HD 650 speed were the DT 1350.

 

An example would be Juno Reactor's track "Conquistador II". It's a very fast paced percussion / beat / world instruments frenetic / hysterical trance music, and I find the HD 650 to be great with it and plenty articulated. More so than the Z1000, HD-25, ES10, etc. Only the DT 1350 gives me a roughly similar sense of speed (but otherwise it obviously is a much worse headphone, being closed and supra-aural).

My Stax setup isn't very fun with this track, but I feel it's still a bit faster in the upper registers (not so in the bass).

 

But agin, my impression may come from the fact that 1) it's a brand new version and 2) the TTVJ Slim is quite speedy and articulated.



 

post #4870 of 36844
I've owned the hd650 probably 4 different times. I kept selling it to try new things but now I'm pretty much done and unless I need the money, its going to stick around. Granted it doesn't get as much headtime as the t1, I still love the sound. I don't find it veiled either. Using the decware csp2+
post #4871 of 36844
Quote:
Originally Posted by caracara08 View Post

I've owned the hd650 probably 4 different times. I kept selling it to try new things but now I'm pretty much done and unless I need the money, its going to stick around. Granted it doesn't get as much headtime as the t1, I still love the sound. I don't find it veiled either. Using the decware csp2+


 

I owned it about 3 times. I think I tried to like the HD-650 more than any other headphone. I spent time making new cables and even bought an amp for it. I think it's one that I just don't like as much as other people, but only due to preferences. I generally hate very warm sounding headphones. I do like the HD-650 a LOT, but it took a new amp to really like it (Micro Amp). Wasn't a huge fan of it with the E9 and Asgard.

 

I always believed the HD-650 kind of lost it's veil with a cable upgrade (DIY cheap ones!). Amp helped too. One reason I came to this conclusion is that I tried the HD-650 on an old favorite headphone and it actually made it less clear and detailed. Much smoother sounded, which the headphone did NOT need. I bet HD-650 would be amazing with Double Helix wire (DIY). I like Mogami for it.

 

Since switching sources and getting another amp, I'm tempted lately to give the HD-650 another try. I think the HRT Music Streamer might be a bad match for it, but maybe not. Seems to be a warm sounding DAC, so maybe that'll be bad for the HD-650.

 

 

post #4872 of 36844
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post


 

I owned it about 3 times. I think I tried to like the HD-650 more than any other headphone. I spent time making new cables and even bought an amp for it. I think it's one that I just don't like as much as other people, but only due to preferences. I generally hate very warm sounding headphones. I do like the HD-650 a LOT, but it took a new amp to really like it (Micro Amp). Wasn't a huge fan of it with the E9 and Asgard.

 

I always believed the HD-650 kind of lost it's veil with a cable upgrade (DIY cheap ones!). Amp helped too. One reason I came to this conclusion is that I tried the HD-650 on an old favorite headphone and it actually made it less clear and detailed. Much smoother sounded, which the headphone did NOT need. I bet HD-650 would be amazing with Double Helix wire (DIY). I like Mogami for it.

 

Since switching sources and getting another amp, I'm tempted lately to give the HD-650 another try. I think the HRT Music Streamer might be a bad match for it, but maybe not. Seems to be a warm sounding DAC, so maybe that'll be bad for the HD-650.

 

 


 

Did you have the silver driver HD650? I have that version running of the Valhalla. Not very warm, and certainly no veil to my ears.

post #4873 of 36844

.......


Edited by thelostMIDrange - 12/27/11 at 1:04pm
post #4874 of 36844
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelostMIDrange View Post

Recently joined the 650 club. Very enjoyable phones. I also am using the 600's, grado hf-2 and grado rs1i. Senns and grados couldn't be more different, but I love them equally for different moods.

 

For those debating trying the 600's vs 650's, I can offer my experience. They sound remarkably similar in terms of presentation, dynamics, and space. The only real difference is the 600 has a touch more upper mid clarity and clearer less dominating bass, as compared to thr 650's. The trade-off from that is that the 600's mids are a touch less full. Therefore the 650's overall come off as sounding a bit fuller, richer, and darker, as countless people have noticed. However I totally disagree that the 650 is 'better' simply because it has a higher number in its name and is more expensive. They are different shades of the same color that's all, and is nice to have that choice since different amps and sources would match up differently with each. I'd recommend the 600's for use with a nice full-mid tube amp and I bet they would sound near identical or even sweeter to a 650 through a clear ss amp. 

 

Now the grados are flat out on the opposite end of the spectrum. Senns are indeed a laid back sound perfect for a certain listening mood. But when it comes to cranking up some old 70's european classic rock ala zeppelim, thin lizzy, ufo et al, the grados are a total gas. In your face for sure but the two models I currently own do that with warmth and no harsh trebles. Senns are fun for classic rock too, don't get me wrong, but i get totally 'lost' with the grados. I feel like i'm right 'there'.  The senn 650 is an overall richer sound though, that that has an allure one can easily become addicted to.



I couldn't have said it better. smile.gif

post #4875 of 36844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin Morrow View Post


 

Did you have the silver driver HD650? I have that version running of the Valhalla. Not very warm, and certainly no veil to my ears.



Yeah I had the silver screened HD-650. Definitely sounded less veiled than my older HD-600 (without silver screen). I think I never really felt that this "veil" was the problem with not loving them. I just prefer a different and much brighter sound signature. Another thing I noticed about them is that they had a ton more detail with a cheap DIY recable. Even enough to pick up faint recording hiss. Always thought the HD-600 matched my preferences more, but felt the HD-650 was the better headphone. Weird, I know.

 

What's funny is that years and years ago I had the very old HD-650 and hated it. This was before Head-Fi and I didn't have a clue. Had the poor HD-650 plugged into my Total Airhead. Now it drives it quite well, but I think the HD-650 deserves a higher powered amp. For whatever reason, the newer HD-650 seems easier to drive (but still benefits from better amps). I connected it up to my Total Airhead and could crank it to very loud levels with the red over-voltage light going on.

 

Another strange thing is that in early 2010 I bought an HD-650 and it sounded very good. I had to return it due to a paint defect. The replacement sounded much worse. It makes no sense..

 

I think it's safe to say that the HD-650 really needs a very neutral source to be at it's best.

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