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Sennheiser HD650 Impressions Thread - Page 27

post #391 of 36831
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post #392 of 36831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradofan2 View Post
I don't know...

But... mine sound identical.

Either my "new" HD650s have the "new" HD580/600 drivers, or my "new" HD580/600s have the "new" HD650 drivers... but... they sound identical - they must have identical drivers.

I do think my "new" HD580/600s bass is stronger than my "old" HD580/600s was... and... my "new" HD650s bass is less visceral than my "old" HD650s bass was. My "old" HD650s bass actually caused the phones to bounce on my head - major movement - my "new" HD650s bass is very strong, but they don't bounce on my head like my "old" HD650s did.

Whatever... I much prefer the sound of my "new" HD580/600/650s to my "old" versions.

As I suggested before... I suspect... the folks at the factory... just used what they had available to complete their production runs - whether HD580/600 drivers went into the HD650s, or vice versa.

I suspect something is weird is going on with the drivers or your particular sets of phones. The "new" HD650 is clearly superior to the "new" HD600. The sound is more refined and the bass is more articulated and the soundstage is broader. I don't see how anyone could confuse them unless the drivers had in fact been mixed up. For your sake, I hope the 600s have the 650 drivers and not the other way around.
I am convinced that in your case they do in fact sound the same. Strange. But as you alude, boys will be boys in ye old Senn factory.
post #393 of 36831
Quote:
Originally Posted by wsoxfan View Post
I suspect something is weird is going on with the drivers or your particular sets of phones. The "new" HD650 is clearly superior to the "new" HD600. The sound is more refined and the bass is more articulated and the soundstage is broader. I don't see how anyone could confuse them unless the drivers had in fact been mixed up. For your sake, I hope the 600s have the 650 drivers and not the other way around.
I am convinced that in your case they do in fact sound the same. Strange. But as you alude, boys will be boys in ye old Senn factory.
Are they a "union" shop? My new 650s are on that big brown truck as I speak, can't wait. I don't have any way to compare them to the 600s so I think I'll just be enjoying them by tonight and not worrying if they are the same. Team---Union!!!!
post #394 of 36831
Quote:
Originally Posted by inthecup View Post
Are they a "union" shop? My new 650s are on that big brown truck as I speak, can't wait. I don't have any way to compare them to the 600s so I think I'll just be enjoying them by tonight and not worrying if they are the same. Team---Union!!!!
Unfortunately, I think they are a "right to work" country.
I have had my new HD650s for about 1 week and I can't get them off my head. Sometimes I forget they are even there and think I am listening to my very good speakers. I was a little hesitant about getting them because of the mixed reviews that they have received. I think the "old" versus "new" version issue may explain some of that. There is absolutely no veil of any kind obscuring the musical presentation of the 650s. Overall, easily the best phones for the money available.

The Wooblies will return!!!!
post #395 of 36831
Those of you who might think the driver is identical might want to read the following:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/3312763-post419.html
post #396 of 36831

Yes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wsoxfan View Post
I suspect something is weird is going on with the drivers or your particular sets of phones. The "new" HD650 is clearly superior to the "new" HD600. The sound is more refined and the bass is more articulated and the soundstage is broader. I don't see how anyone could confuse them unless the drivers had in fact been mixed up. For your sake, I hope the 600s have the 650 drivers and not the other way around.
I am convinced that in your case they do in fact sound the same. Strange. But as you alude, boys will be boys in ye old Senn factory.
Yes... whatever they are... both... are superb!

I can't imagine any "version" could be better than the ones I have... unless... they actually had Stax' resolution, and clarity.

So... those of you, who are about to receive yours, are going to quite pleased!

By the way... do your "new" HD650s actually bounce on your head with strong, sharp bass notes? I mean... do they actually "jump" noticeably... not just vibrate a slight amount.
post #397 of 36831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradofan2 View Post
Yes... whatever they are... both... are superb!

I can't imagine any "version" could be better than the ones I have... unless... they actually had Stax' resolution, and clarity.

So... those of you, who are about to receive yours, are going to quite pleased!

By the way... do your "new" HD650s actually bounce on your head with strong, sharp bass notes? I mean... do they actually "jump" noticeably... not just vibrate a slight amount.
My new 650s have the best articulated bass I have heard in any headphone. The bass is clearly always very much present without being in the slightest bit booming. With headphones that try to "pump" up the bass, you often get the same tradeoff as you get with a big bass woofer in your car system. Some "boom" is added to max the physical effect of the bass. A lot of the "bass feel" that you get with really good bass from a really good sub woofer is from the physical impact of frequencies that are actually too low for the ear to articulate. We can sort of "hear" them but not totally resolve them. They is why it can be difficult to follow bass notes at times. For bass to be complete you have to have the full body effect. That is simply impossible with headphones period. The phones are attached to your head. There is no way for the lower bass sound waves to impact you entire body.
All that being said, I am never looking for the kind of bass coming from phones that would bounce the phones on my head. Without hyping the bass in the lower ranges, I just do not see how it would be possible. At least not without sacrificing sound quality in the mid and upper ranges. Because of the longer wave lenght of bass sound waves they can sometimes tend to dominate the sound stage if too dominant.
In summary, my HD650s give me pretty much everything that I can imagine getting out of bass in a phone without screwing up the sound somewhere else.
I have not tried playing around with my equalizer on some class Stanley Clarke bass solos though. If anything is going to get them hopping, that will be it. I will try that and let you know.
post #398 of 36831
Quote:
Originally Posted by wsoxfan View Post
I think the "old" versus "new" version issue may explain some of that. There is absolutely no veil of any kind obscuring the musical presentation of the 650s. Overall, easily the best phones for the money available.
I dunno about the "old" one as I have the "new" version as well. But the veil's definitely there....and it's not some sort of obscuring thing. I just find that a certain frequency, the bass has a darkish/warm sound to it.

I honestly actually don't notice it at all when I'm listening normally, but it's definitely there when I A/B it with a Denon D5000.

Regardless, the HD650 does seem to give me the best combo of bass/treble that I want though. Pretty incredibly phones.
post #399 of 36831
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmht View Post
I dunno about the "old" one as I have the "new" version as well. But the veil's definitely there....and it's not some sort of obscuring thing. I just find that a certain frequency, the bass has a darkish/warm sound to it.

I honestly actually don't notice it at all when I'm listening normally, but it's definitely there when I A/B it with a Denon D5000.
I think that some of the difference of opinion on the HD650s musical presentation especially concening the way the bass comes across is more a question of differenct people hearing music differently and looking for different things when we evaluate our phones. I don't think there is really a "right" and a "wrong" way to look at the HD650s relative to other phones.
I think your take on the nature of the bass coming out of the HD650s is a case in point. In my sonic universe, superb bass inherently is "darkish" and has a aspect of built in warmth. The opposite is the case with superb hights with shimmer with light and could freeze your very soul.
It is mostly a question of sonic perspective probably something to do with quantum mechanics since everything else seems to.
post #400 of 36831
Wow, this thread just keeps on going. It seems that there are many people who disagree with my findings, that's fine. But I know what I heard.

I can't rule out the possibility of something being wrong with my old pair of HD650's. I still don't think that it was the case. I take extreme care of my headphones and so it was with my HD650 also. They were hanging on my headphone hanger when they weren't in use. Earpads were also in very good shape on both headphones we tested. I can't seem to find any difference between them than the manufacturing date and hours of use. Both of us heard the huge difference between the two HD650's.
post #401 of 36831

Perhaps You Missed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wsoxfan View Post
My new 650s have the best articulated bass I have heard in any headphone. The bass is clearly always very much present without being in the slightest bit booming. With headphones that try to "pump" up the bass, you often get the same tradeoff as you get with a big bass woofer in your car system. Some "boom" is added to max the physical effect of the bass. A lot of the "bass feel" that you get with really good bass from a really good sub woofer is from the physical impact of frequencies that are actually too low for the ear to articulate. We can sort of "hear" them but not totally resolve them. They is why it can be difficult to follow bass notes at times. For bass to be complete you have to have the full body effect. That is simply impossible with headphones period. The phones are attached to your head. There is no way for the lower bass sound waves to impact you entire body.
All that being said, I am never looking for the kind of bass coming from phones that would bounce the phones on my head. Without hyping the bass in the lower ranges, I just do not see how it would be possible. At least not without sacrificing sound quality in the mid and upper ranges. Because of the longer wave lenght of bass sound waves they can sometimes tend to dominate the sound stage if too dominant.
In summary, my HD650s give me pretty much everything that I can imagine getting out of bass in a phone without screwing up the sound somewhere else.
I have not tried playing around with my equalizer on some class Stanley Clarke bass solos though. If anything is going to get them hopping, that will be it. I will try that and let you know.
Perhaps you missed my prior comment, or the point of my question.

The "old" version of the HD650s had such strong, viceral bass notes, that the phones actually, quite literally, bounced on your head. Thats one way you know you have the "old" version.

My "new" version of the HD650s, have strong, tight, well defined bass, but the bass is not so strong it bounces on your head, as the "old" version did.

I just wanted to know, if your's did... because that would tell me... you have a different driver than the one in mine.
post #402 of 36831

In The "Old" Version Only...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmht View Post
I dunno about the "old" one as I have the "new" version as well. But the veil's definitely there....and it's not some sort of obscuring thing. I just find that a certain frequency, the bass has a darkish/warm sound to it.

I honestly actually don't notice it at all when I'm listening normally, but it's definitely there when I A/B it with a Denon D5000.

Regardless, the HD650 does seem to give me the best combo of bass/treble that I want though. Pretty incredibly phones.
The "veil" was there in the "old" versions only - its gone from the new versions. I've heard both at length... and believe me... its gone.

However, some phones are very slightly brighter, and clearer, or more "shimmery," than the "new" versions of the Senns - such as the D5000s, and possibly the AD2000s - the RS-1s are about the same.

You may perceive this slight difference as a "veil," but its most certainly not the "veil" of the "old" versions of the Senns. Not even close. And... to me... its not so much a "veil," as just a slightly brighter, or more "shimmery" sound of these other phones.

If yours do have a "veil" - then you've got the "old" version of the driver/acoustic elements, which you could have.
post #403 of 36831

That's Because...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patu View Post
Wow, this thread just keeps on going. It seems that there are many people who disagree with my findings, that's fine. But I know what I heard.

I can't rule out the possibility of something being wrong with my old pair of HD650's. I still don't think that it was the case. I take extreme care of my headphones and so it was with my HD650 also. They were hanging on my headphone hanger when they weren't in use. Earpads were also in very good shape on both headphones we tested. I can't seem to find any difference between them than the manufacturing date and hours of use. Both of us heard the huge difference between the two HD650's.
That's because... they were different... and sounded different.

There is no question the "old" versions sound much different than the "new" versions - that's a simple fact that I, as well as, others have established... no matter what some skeptics "feel" about it.

Again... "you're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts."

A variable, which will impact the sound of the Senns greatly, is your realtive set ups (source, amps, cables, etc.). Obviously, I have a great set up, which mates supremely well with Senns, and brings out their best sound. Not all set ups permit that. If you don't have an equivalent set up, you're not going to hear the "real Senns," or the same Senns that I'm hearing.
post #404 of 36831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradofan2 View Post
You may perceive this slight difference as a "veil," but its most certainly not the "veil" of the "old" versions of the Senns. Not even close. And... to me... its not so much a "veil," as just a slightly brighter, or more "shimmery" sound of these other phones.

If yours do have a "veil" - then you've got the "old" version of the driver/acoustic elements, which you could have.
Naw, I think it depends on what you define as neutral. I'd define neutral more towards the "brighter shimmery sound".

Of course, veil could just be a poor choice of words on my part. What I mean is that it's darker/warmer than all my other headphones.....but once again, I don't really notice it unless I'm A/B'ing them.
post #405 of 36831
The big brown truck has come and gone, don't know about new or old, veil or no veil, I do know about a BIG smile, I just love my 650s so far, I don't think I'll ever get rid of my 225s but I already feel that the 650s will get much more head time, the comfort is like heaven compared to my Grados, the sound very different, now I know what everyone says about them being so smooth and sweet. I'm using my laptop and boa with them, maybe not the best source and amp but we all know Christmas is coming........
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