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Sennheiser HD650 Impressions Thread - Page 243

post #3631 of 36844

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blisse View Post

I disagree with between the HD 650 and the AD2000. There is certainly a very appreciable difference between the two. Whether you like it or not is a different matter, but the difference is very noticeable. I wouldn't mind either as my main pair of headphones, but to say there's a subtle difference between the two is lying.


I have found that most people never hear the potential of their headphones, because they never find the source and amp that properly matches the electrical characteristics of each phone - sounds like you are one of those.  And... they fail to implement the "tweaks" needed to bring their phones to their potential.

 

Perhaps... you just need more experience with both phones and matching set ups.  When each is properly matched to their respective set ups, they sound very similar.  Though the AD2000's do have a wee bit more attack, and a wee bit brighter highs - though my AD2000's have the "phat pad" mod and have been fully burnt in - which makes a huge difference in the sound of the AD2000's.  These are somewhat subtle differences between the "new version" Senns and modified AD2000's. 

 

But... then... I also have the "new version" of the Senns, a RAL Cryo-silver cable, and have deveiled them.  These "tweaks" make a pretty significant improvement in their sound - more like the AD2000's, or Grados.  And... of course... the WA6 SEm, or the Millett MiniMax, and the Monarchy M24 match both phones extremely well. 

 

Of course, the "old version" of the Senns were a "night and day" difference from the AD2000's, or RS-1's - not so much with the "new version."

 

I should also note... that the drivers in my "new version" HD580s and my "new version" HD650's are / were identical... resulting in IDENTICAL sound between the two - which is very similar to my AD2000's and RS-1s.   

 

But... that wasn't really my point.  My point was... there is very little difference between the "new version" HD580/600/650's, when properly matched to their set up, and LCD2's, HE-6 / HE-500's, SR-507's, SR-007's, etc.   There are just not dramatic improvements in the sound as you move up to these "higher-end" phones - only subtle improvements, unless you're one who tends to focus on / overemphasize such "nuances" in the sound.  Certainly, the differences are not anywhere near proportionate to the substantial increase in their cost.  You must focus very closely on A:B comparisons to discern the differences in many of these phones compared to the Senns, or AD2000's.  That's just way to "compulsive" for me.

 

Though, I admit, I focus on the "nuances" enough, that I have a very difficult time deciding which of my phones I prefer - so much so, that I haven't been able to decide which one's to keep and which to sell.  

 

Many other's have noted this same point in their reviews and comments.  Specifically, that the HD600's or HD650s sound as good, or better, than these other "high-end" phones, when properly matched with a source and amp. 

 

That has been my experience with all.  
 

 


Edited by Gradofan2 - 7/10/11 at 7:58am
post #3632 of 36844

I agree, therefore, I thumbs up.


Edited by sphinxvc - 7/10/11 at 7:48am
post #3633 of 36844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Meakin View Post

Thanks. The below describes what I'm finding with the HD650s from a solid state amp. It sounds as if a tube amp is what I need, despite having always favoured solid state with speakers.
 


A good SS amp like an M^3 or GS-1 is the bees knees for 650s.  My M^3 (637/627) sounds just like my Woo3 (Cetron).  The GS-1 has more resolution then either of them and has become my 650 amp of choice.

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradofan2 View Post

 

<snip>

 

I should also note... that the drivers in my "new version" HD580s and my "new version" HD650's are / were identical... resulting in IDENTICAL sound between the two - which is very similar to my AD2000's and RS-1s.   

 

<snip>

 


That's interesting Roger.  You think Sennheiser had dumbed down the 650s by using the same drivers as the 580s?

 

Point of interest:  Has Sennheiser admitted that they are using the same drivers and that the 650s and the 580s sound the same?  Or do they still continue to claim that the the 650s still have the same "old" 650 sound?

 

Put another way, has Sennheiser admitted that they have changed the sound signature of their former flagship?

 

Eric

 

post #3634 of 36844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradofan2 View Post

 


I have found that most people never hear the potential of their headphones, because they never find the source and amp that properly matches the electrical characteristics of each phone - sounds like you are one of those.  And... they fail to implement the "tweaks" needed to bring their phones to their potential.

 

....


I don't have extensive experience with other cans or higher end components but I like to think I do know what sounds good. I was enamoured with the HD650 signature from day 1 and every change I've made in my setup has been carefully considered over time to get to the musical presentation I favour. I've arrived at this point by spending time with every outcome and paying particular attention to what didn't work.

 

Despite my limited experience I totally agree with the bolded statement. It's clear to me that it's the reason these cans are so polarising and also why myths from the past (slow and veiled) continue to persist.

 


Edited by olor1n - 7/10/11 at 8:08am
post #3635 of 36844

For solid state, I'd been looking at the Violectric V200 or Audio-Gd Phoenix as both are available in the UK, which the GS-1 isn't as far as I know. Or possibly a Naim Headline 2 with Hi-Cap, although this is probably an expensive option in the US.

 

I'd also heard that the Red Wine Isabellina HPA works well with the 650s, and the all in one amp/DAC approach appeals to me.

 

I don't want to do a self-import on a product like this, as Murphy's law will guarantee that it goes wrong... regular_smile%20.gif
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post




A good SS amp like an M^3 or GS-1 is the bees knees for 650s.  My M^3 (637/627) sounds just like my Woo3 (Cetron).  The GS-1 has more resolution then either of them and has become my 650 amp of choice.

 



 

post #3636 of 36844

I moved up a level to the HD800's and I still keep my HD650's around and love them.  They have a sound signature that is warm and detailed and all their own.

post #3637 of 36844



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post

I've been grappling with the decision to purchase the LCD-2 for a while. The proposition has become more enticing with the recent driver revision, but I still struggle with the justification considering how amazing the HD650 now sounds in my current setup.

 

Just a thought, but have you ever considered side stepping to a different sounding phone instead of upgrading to a similar sounding one? I really like having two main phones that I can choose between, depending on what I'm listening to or what mood I'm in. You seem to be really happy with your sound at the mo, so instead of looking for better, how about keeping what you have got and instead go for a different flavor for a lot less money than upgrading. For example my two main phones are the 650's and Rs1i's. Very different sound signatures and both very good reference phones. Both require different amp types, but this again adds to the fun of having different sound qualities to play around with.   

post #3638 of 36844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradofan2 View Post

But... that wasn't really my point.  My point was... there is very little difference between the "new version" HD580/600/650's, when properly matched to their set up, and LCD2's, HE-6 / HE-500's, SR-507's, SR-007's, etc.   There are just not dramatic improvements in the sound as you move up to these "higher-end" phones - only subtle improvements, unless you're one who tends to focus on / overemphasize such "nuances" in the sound.  Certainly, the differences are not anywhere near proportionate to the substantial increase in their cost.  You must focus very closely on A:B comparisons to discern the differences in many of these phones compared to the Senns, or AD2000's.  That's just way to "compulsive" for me.

 

 

I think there's a big difference in the overall sound signature between the HE-6 and HD650. I like both headphones, but they don't sound similar to me at all.

 

 

 

post #3639 of 36844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Meakin View Post

For solid state, I'd been looking at the Violectric V200 or Audio-Gd Phoenix as both are available in the UK, which the GS-1 isn't as far as I know. Or possibly a Naim Headline 2 with Hi-Cap, although this is probably an expensive option in the US.

 

I'd also heard that the Red Wine Isabellina HPA works well with the 650s, and the all in one amp/DAC approach appeals to me.

 

I don't want to do a self-import on a product like this, as Murphy's law will guarantee that it goes wrong... regular_smile%20.gif
 



 


The Lehmann Cube Linear will also probably be a good choice.

 



Quote:

Originally Posted by olor1n View Post

<snip>


It's clear to me that it's the reason these cans are so polarising and also why myths from the past (slow and veiled) continue to persist.

 


The biggest myth is that you need to implement tweaks to bring the 650s to their potential or that you need a special source or amp. 

 

The 650s will faithfully reproduce what ever you feed into them, which has nothing to do with how well they scale with better equipment.

 

orig.jpg

 

post #3640 of 36844

Oh no, not this "it all sounds the same" from the sound science forum. rolleyes.gif

post #3641 of 36844
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZorgDK View Post

Oh no, not this "it all sounds the same" from the sound science forum. rolleyes.gif


of course it all sounds the same doesn't matter what amp or dac ya got its all good bro.. hahaha atsmile.gif
post #3642 of 36844
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrScary View Post
of course it all sounds the same doesn't matter what amp or dac ya got its all good bro.. hahaha atsmile.gif


 

LOL!  wink_face.gif

 

What I said was: "The 650s will faithfully reproduce what ever you feed into them, which has nothing to do with how well they scale with better equipment."

post #3643 of 36844

I misunderstood upstateguy, by "faithfully reproduce what ever you feed into them", he also meant source gear. I thought he meant music recording only.

post #3644 of 36844
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post




 

LOL!  wink_face.gif

 

What I said was: "The 650s will faithfully reproduce what ever you feed into them, which has nothing to do with how well they scale with better equipment."


The biggest myth is that you need to implement tweaks to bring the 650s to their potential or that you need a special source or amp.


ummmm
post #3645 of 36844

 

done forget of the Burson Audio HA160? with the HD650 a great combining is had.
 
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