Sennheiser HD650 & Massdrop HD6XX Impressions Thread
Oct 26, 2016 at 1:30 AM Post #36,001 of 46,497
So I ordered the 650 off eBay, now the waiting begins. Paid $375AUD ($288USD) with a $50 voucher for them so I think that's a pretty good deal. Just wondering how well my Sony UDA-1 will sound with them... I've heard someone say they sound good together and another say it's not good, guess I'll find out soon enough. But might sell it and get the Jot.

How much burn-in do these usually require before optimum?

Nice pick

They require 2.33 seconds exactly.
They won't change but you'll become comfortable with their sound after some good listening hours.
Give your brain some time to get used to the new sound signature then you'll be able to fully appreciate HD650's qualities.
 
Happy Listening!
 
Oct 26, 2016 at 4:59 AM Post #36,002 of 46,497
Nice pick


They require 2.33 seconds exactly.
They won't change but you'll become comfortable with their sound after some good listening hours.
Give your brain some time to get used to the new sound signature then you'll be able to fully appreciate HD650's qualities.

Happy Listening!


Thanks mate. 2.33 seconds... I think I can manage that. I always wonder if HP burn in is a real thing or if it's just your brain getting used to new sound. I vividly remember my first expensive purchase, a quad BA earphone (UE900) sounding very weird and muffled when I first tried them, thought I'd just completely wasted my money but an hour later I was amazed. Since then I've bought Westone W40 and Shure SE846 and have never experienced the same effect so I'm guessing it was my brain getting used to BA sound.

Luckily I've already heard the 650 in store and really liked it. Was over my 800's only being good for specific music, the 650 definitely seems to be more my taste.
 
Oct 26, 2016 at 5:33 AM Post #36,003 of 46,497
  Nice pick

They require 2.33 seconds exactly.
They won't change but you'll become comfortable with their sound after some good listening hours.
Give your brain some time to get used to the new sound signature then you'll be able to fully appreciate HD650's qualities.
 
Happy Listening!

 
Whilst not wanting to get into this debate again I must point out that you really can't make blanket statements like this.  Over the years I've probably owned around twenty pairs of headphones and none of them ever exhibited signs of burn-in.. until I bought the HD 650. Obviously that's just my opinion and not based on scientific measurement but it's as valid an opinion as yours. That is all.
 
edit - I should also add that since buying my pair my friend also bought a pair and I heard those burn-in too.
 
Oct 26, 2016 at 6:34 AM Post #36,004 of 46,497
   
Whilst not wanting to get into this debate again I must point out that you really can't make blanket statements like this.  Over the years I've probably owned around twenty pairs of headphones and none of them ever exhibited signs of burn-in.. until I bought the HD 650. Obviously that's just my opinion and not based on scientific measurement but it's as valid an opinion as yours. That is all.
 
edit - I should also add that since buying my pair my friend also bought a pair and I heard those burn-in too.


I've measured my pair many times and it always measured the same.
We aren't tools, we change from one day to another, we change from one moment to another, we don't even match volume or take care of external noise from one day to another, we have to deal with many forms of bias, we have to deal with limited auditory memory, I can probably keep adding factors involved forever but you got the idea.
 
How to weight opinions can lead to an even bigger debate, so to keep this on the ground, I would say something obvious:
Everyone here can weight/judge other's opinions freely.
 
Do I think each an every opinion is just as valid as the others? No
Can someone think that each an every opinion expressed here is just as valid as the others? Yes
 
There's no reason to think HD650 drivers will change in the first hours, there's no reason to think they will improve their performance, there's no reason to think they will settle after a few hours. Too many assumptions following a well known myth that's very convenient for sellers and can feel really vivid if one forgets about how much we change and to what degree we get used to different sound signatures.
 
I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm saying I see no good reason to believe your HD650 suddenly changed for better in the first hours and then settled.
 
Oct 26, 2016 at 6:51 AM Post #36,005 of 46,497
Sorry, didn't mean to start forum fisticuffs. I will see how they sound after a week or so of using them. TBH I've never heard any noticeable change in my THX00 or HD800 but maybe HD650 is different.
 
Oct 26, 2016 at 7:25 AM Post #36,006 of 46,497
Why does burn in always make things better? New amp harsh? Burn in. New DAC is dull? Burn in. Headphones not as resolving out of the box? Burn in.
Aren't there any cases of speakers getting worse and then settling in sounding worse than how it was out of the box?
 
Genuine question btw, not just being sarcastic or anything. Though I might come off as one.
 
Oct 26, 2016 at 7:54 AM Post #36,007 of 46,497
  Why does burn in always make things better? New amp harsh? Burn in. New DAC is dull? Burn in. Headphones not as resolving out of the box? Burn in.
Aren't there any cases of speakers getting worse and then settling in sounding worse than how it was out of the box?
 
Genuine question btw, not just being sarcastic or anything. Though I might come off as one.

To answer your first question: it is a combination of expectation bias and our ears/brain becoming accustomed to sound over time.
 
To answer your second question: I don't know about speakers, but with respect to headphones, the answer is no.
 
Oct 26, 2016 at 8:05 AM Post #36,008 of 46,497
  Why does burn in always make things better? New amp harsh? Burn in. New DAC is dull? Burn in. Headphones not as resolving out of the box? Burn in.
Aren't there any cases of speakers getting worse and then settling in sounding worse than how it was out of the box?
 
Genuine question btw, not just being sarcastic or anything. Though I might come off as one.

 
No.1 It doesn't. However, if a particular product was purchased on the basis of extensive reviews and those reviews were based on more than 5 minutes use it's fair to say that they will at least burn-in to the expected sound signature.
 
No.2 Depending on partnering equipment, quite possibly.
 
For the record, I don't believe burn-in to be a factor in electronics but I do believe burn-in to be a factor in mechanical components because, well, that's physics. Whether it takes 10 hours, 10 minutes or 2.3 seconds is anyone's guess but it surely must happen. The real quaestion is whether it's audible.
 
Oct 26, 2016 at 8:13 AM Post #36,009 of 46,497
  To answer your first question: it is a combination of expectation bias and our ears/brain becoming accustomed to sound over time.
 
To answer your second question: I don't know about speakers, but with respect to headphones, the answer is no.

 
With respect, your answer to question 2 is disingenuous.
 
You already state in your answer to question 1 that burn-in is merely a combination of expectation bias and the brain (please, not ears) becoming accustomed to a sound.
 
As an example of why I believe this to be wrong I cite my first 'high-end' headphone purchase, the AKG Q701. When I first bought them I was amazed at the level of detail they delivered but, over time, it really became quite fatiguing. I grew to hate those headphones because the increase in detail was only a placebo provided by a spike in the treble at 2k. So yes, providing you believe it's all down to expectation bias I'd say it is fair to say that the sound can deteriorate over time.
 
Oct 26, 2016 at 8:38 AM Post #36,010 of 46,497
The most appealing qualities of the HD650 are its tonality, smooth frequency response, and resolving capabilities. The Elear improves only on the last quality. Stock at least (haven't heard modded, but others speak highly of it) the Elear is deficient in the two more important qualities.

Cross-posting from HD600 thread:

If you listen to any music with violins, I'd avoid the Elear unless you're willing to try third-party pads and/or other mods. The midrange suckout on stock Elear makes such music sound ridiculous. I also dislike the treble presentation as it's nowhere near as smooth as the HD6x0.



Yellow = Elear; Blue = HD650; Purple = Ether Open. Source: [cannot be named, though using images from said source is somehow OK]


inner|fidelity measurements:

For reference, I've owned the HD650 (stock --> modded) for about a year, the HD600 (stock) for about six months now, and kept the Elear for less than a week. My favorite things about the Elear were the comfort (though HD6x0 is not uncomfortable) and the super long cable.
wow, this is some great information, thanks very much for posting! I keep waiting for an updated 650 to emerge but I should probably just buy one now... the weaknesses of my Alpha Dogs are really starting to bother me but I worry that a less expensive headphone won't be an upgrade... I was really excited to hear about the elear but was left a bit disappointed with what I heard.
 
Oct 26, 2016 at 8:44 AM Post #36,011 of 46,497
No.1 It doesn't. However, if a particular product was purchased on the basis of extensive reviews and those reviews were based on more than 5 minutes use it's fair to say that they will at least burn-in to the expected sound signature.

No.2 Depending on partnering equipment, quite possibly.

For the record, I don't believe burn-in to be a factor in electronics but I do believe burn-in to be a factor in mechanical components because, well, that's physics. Whether it takes 10 hours, 10 minutes or 2.3 seconds is anyone's guess but it surely must happen. The real quaestion is whether it's audible.
all true, but even if it is placebo, it can't be ignored. I believe it's a combination... ie; there are very minor audible differences that you perceive to be more favorable than they really are due in part to expectation bias. I know that my music sounds way better when I turn my amp on a few hours in advance, dim the lights and settle into a comfortable chair (with a glass of wine)...
 
Oct 26, 2016 at 8:53 AM Post #36,012 of 46,497
 
  Why does burn in always make things better? New amp harsh? Burn in. New DAC is dull? Burn in. Headphones not as resolving out of the box? Burn in.
Aren't there any cases of speakers getting worse and then settling in sounding worse than how it was out of the box?
 
Genuine question btw, not just being sarcastic or anything. Though I might come off as one.

To answer your first question: it is a combination of expectation bias and our ears/brain becoming accustomed to sound over time.
 
To answer your second question: I don't know about speakers, but with respect to headphones, the answer is no.

Ohk, i buy so many earbuds..
Out of box it sounds not so great but after burn in it sounds nice..
Out of box i listen once and then put in for burn in with all burn in tracks for many hours.. obviously i can't listen to those pink noise, white noise etc..
 
What's your opinion in this case.. when i am listening to earbud after the burn in, it sounds different from the first time .. 
 
Oct 26, 2016 at 9:02 AM Post #36,013 of 46,497
   
With respect, your answer to question 2 is disingenuous.
 
You already state in your answer to question 1 that burn-in is merely a combination of expectation bias and the brain (please, not ears) becoming accustomed to a sound.
 
As an example of why I believe this to be wrong I cite my first 'high-end' headphone purchase, the AKG Q701. When I first bought them I was amazed at the level of detail they delivered but, over time, it really became quite fatiguing. I grew to hate those headphones because the increase in detail was only a placebo provided by a spike in the treble at 2k. So yes, providing you believe it's all down to expectation bias I'd say it is fair to say that the sound can deteriorate over time.

People believe headphones will sound better with burn in and so that is what magically happens--they are perceived to sound better. Accordingly, people tend to attribute a multitude of positive sound changes to mechanical burn in, which are better explained by psychoacoustics, environment, diet, etc.  My answer to question no. 2 is only with respect to actual mechanical changes. Your AKG example is not applicable because you are talking about fatigue or evolution of preference, not burn in. Are you really saying that the Q701 sounds great for the first dozen hours or so then turns to crap because of burn in? Of course you aren't, because nobody thinks that about any headphone. Your example is kind of ironic, too, because the AKG K701 is famous for "needing" hundreds, if not thousands, of hours of burn in to sound great or develop bass presence.
 
Edit: Also, I'm not trying to force my opinion on anyone nor do I mean any offense to you @Solrighal. This is just my take on the subject! On second thought, maybe the Q701 example is more appropos than ironic! Just needed to hang in there another 1000 hours or so 
tongue_smile.gif

 
Oct 26, 2016 at 9:09 AM Post #36,014 of 46,497
  Ohk, i buy so many earbuds..
Out of box it sounds not so great but after burn in it sounds nice..
Out of box i listen once and then put in for burn in with all burn in tracks for many hours.. obviously i can't listen to those pink noise, white noise etc..
 
What's your opinion in this case.. when i am listening to earbud after the burn in, it sounds different from the first time .. 


I bought Yuin PK1 buds years ago, listened for less then a minute, sounded like crap..let them play 24 hours without listening to them, then sounded awesome.
 

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