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Sennheiser HD650 Impressions Thread - Page 235

post #3511 of 36851

Good post - I agree with the premise.  Newcomers should take heed but I can't see point in it for established head-fiers who have already invested in quality components.  Olor1n for example.


Edited by sphinxvc - 6/29/11 at 12:33pm
post #3512 of 36851
Quote:

Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post
 

....

 

So what you're saying is that on one side there is no evidence to indicate the audibility of cable differences and on the other side you're saying that there is a lot of hearsay that says there is.

 

Certainly you're not going to go wrong with any of the cables you suggested, but on the other hand, there's no evidence to suggest any of them will make a difference.

 

It's your money, spend it wisely.

 

On the other hand, there is no reason to pass up a really neat looking aftermarket headphone cable.  We buy fashion all the time.

 


Well said USG.  The mere fact that the differences between headphones, dacs and amps can be easily measured with test equipment, and the differences between cables cannot, proves the validity of your order of magnitude argument.  As a general rule, it seems safe to say that measurable differences will have a greater impact on sound quality than system changes which are not of a sufficient magnitude to be measured.  If a headphone cable really is capable of increasing brightness or warmth, this ought to show up in the frequency response curve.  I have yet to see a plausible explanation for why it does not.  IMO - this fact should be stickied at the top of the headphone forum, rather than being generally confined to sound science.    

 

I haven't personally heard enough different USB transports and dacs (while the amp and phones remain static) to agree or disagree with permutation/order you have suggested as to which components potentially give rise to the largest changes.  Perhaps the order fluctuates based on whatever component (after the headphones themselves) is the weakest link?  That said, I will note that to my ears, different tubes in the A stage of my Crack do seem to have a fairly distinct impact on the frequency response curve as I hear it (although I would love to see some measurements and certainly agree that this is a more subtle change than switching to a different amp).  Even two well regarded 12au7 tubes can sound quite different (for example, the trebles produced by RCA clear tops vs. Amperex bugleboys).  I strongly prefer the latter with my HD800's and the former with my HD650's.

 

All in all, very interesting food for thought beerchug.gif


Edited by skeptic - 6/29/11 at 12:12pm
post #3513 of 36851

Quote:

Originally Posted by skeptic View Post

Well said USG.  The mere fact that the differences between headphones, dacs and amps can be easily measured with test equipment, and the differences between cables cannot, proves the validity of your order of magnitude argument.  As a general rule, it seems safe to say that measurable differences will have a greater impact on sound quality than system changes which are not of a sufficient magnitude to be measured.  If a headphone cable really is capable of increasing brightness or warmth, this ought to show up in the frequency response curve.  I have yet to see a plausible explanation for why it does not.  IMO - this fact should be stickied at the top of the headphone forum, rather than being generally confined to sound science.    

 

I haven't personally heard enough different USB transports and dacs (while the amp and phones remain static) to agree or disagree with permutation/order you have suggested as to which components potentially give rise to the largest changes.  Perhaps the order fluctuates based on whatever component (after the headphones themselves) is the weakest link?  That said, I will note that to my ears, different tubes in the A stage of my Crack do seem to have a fairly distinct impact on the frequency response curve as I hear it (although I would love to see some measurements and certainly agree that this is a more subtle change than switching to a different amp).  Even two well regarded 12au7 tubes can sound quite different (for example, the trebles produced by RCA clear tops vs. Amperex bugleboys).  I strongly prefer the latter with my HD800's and the former with my HD650's.

All in all, very interesting food for thought beerchug.gif

 

It's a tiresome, endless topic.


Edited by sphinxvc - 6/29/11 at 12:30pm
post #3514 of 36851

My recipe to make the 650's sing these days are; upgrade copper cable, foam removed from inside the cups, (little bit of foam in the drivers; ) solid silver interconnects(most important!), some powerful tubes, Beethoven turned up very loud, glass of choice Bourbon (optional)  

 

Sorted.  tongue.gif

post #3515 of 36851
Quote:
Originally Posted by sphinxvc View Post

Quote:

 

It's a tiresome, endless topic.

 

Come now - what could be more interesting than discussing and analyzing the clash between science (or at least the observable data), the post-purchase justification phenomena, and a boat load of sponsors who fund this forum while deriving their highest profit margin from after-market cables?  There's plenty of fun to be had beating this dead horse...sort of akin to arguing with creationists popcorn.gif

 

post #3516 of 36851
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeptic View Post

 

Come now - what could be more interesting than discussing and analyzing the clash between science (or at least the observable data), the post-purchase justification phenomena, and a boat load of sponsors who fund this forum while deriving their highest profit margin from after-market cables?  There's plenty of fun to be had beating this dead horse...sort of akin to arguing with creationists popcorn.gif

 



Not in this thread please. Lets keep it on topic.

post #3517 of 36851

Meh. All you need to make the HD 650's shine is adequate power. 

post #3518 of 36851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shahrose View Post

Not in this thread please. Lets keep it on topic.


After tens (if not hundreds) of pages in this thread devoted to discussing and/or recommending "must have" after-market cables for the HD650's, I hardly think that a couple of posts expressing dissenting opinions as to the relative value of such cables should be dismissed as "off-topic." 


Edited by skeptic - 6/29/11 at 1:45pm
post #3519 of 36851
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeptic View Post




After tens (if not hundreds) of pages in this thread devoted to discussing and/or recommending "must have" after-market cables for the HD650's, I hardly think that a couple of posts expressing dissenting opinions as to the relative value of such cables should be dismissed as "off-topic." 



How to improve the HD650s is one thing...discussing the efficacy of cables in general is another. I thought you would have discerned the obvious difference.

post #3520 of 36851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shahrose View Post





How to improve the HD650s is one thing...discussing the efficacy of cables in general is another. I thought you would have discerned the obvious difference.


The cable battle continues deadhorse.gif
post #3521 of 36851

Discerning the obvious differences is clearly and sadly not for everybody.

post #3522 of 36851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kees View Post

Discerning the obvious differences is clearly and sadly not for everybody.


That's some interesting reasoning. . . 

 

post #3523 of 36851

Nowadays I am sure a lot of people have music in their computer, and he Senn HD650 is one of the most forgiven headphone for lower audio quality files making them a very good investment IMO.

 

Another thing is the ability to scale with higher end gears making this headphone one of the best value.

post #3524 of 36851

      Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahrose View Post

How to improve the HD650s is one thing...discussing the efficacy of cables in general is another. I thought you would have discerned the obvious difference.


That is a totally artificial and self serving distinction.  If after-market cables do not improve sound quality as a general matter (at least to the extent that it can be measured), then they do not improve the measurable sound quality of the HD650's.  This issue is directly on point in a thread that has focused time and time again on the supposed "immense" benefits of cable upgrades for the 650's. 

 

I think it is sad that the hyperbole regarding cable upgrades is so pervasive on head-fi that we frequently have new posters discussing their intentions to purchase third party cables that cost nearly as much as their headphones, while driving them with Fiios (or some equivalent).      

 

In any event, I generally enjoy your posts Shahrose (even when I disagree with them), and I don't want this exchange to become even more adversarial than it already has.  That said (and my sarcastic reference to creationists aside), I don't think it is fair to try and silence opposition to cable upgrade recommendations when they are so frequently discussed in this thread. 

post #3525 of 36851
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeptic View Post

      Quote:


That is a totally artificial and self serving distinction.  If after-market cables do not improve sound quality as a general matter (at least to the extent that it can be measured), then they do not improve the measurable sound quality of the HD650's.  This issue is directly on point in a thread that has focused time and time again on the supposed "immense" benefits of cable upgrades for the 650's. 

 

I think it is sad that the hyperbole regarding cable upgrades is so pervasive on head-fi that we frequently have new posters discussing their intentions to purchase third party cables that cost nearly as much as their headphones, while driving them with Fiios (or some equivalent).      

 

In any event, I generally enjoy your posts Shahrose (even when I disagree with them), and I don't want this exchange to become even more adversarial than it already has.  That said (and my sarcastic reference to creationists aside), I don't think it is fair to try and silence opposition to cable upgrade recommendations when they are so frequently discussed in this thread. 


Haha aftermarket cable and fiio!! that's me lawl....



impending realisation :s
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