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Sennheiser HD650 Impressions Thread - Page 173

post #2581 of 37729
I am becoming convinced that the Fiio products (although quite good) have more market share than they would have otherwise if it weren't for the fact that the Amazon.com website "recommends" them so aggressively.



Good point! although I would say that nothing on headfi gets recommended (continually) with out the upmost testing and scrutiny. The E7 is the most cost effective upgrade that Ive come across in years. Not the most practical for portability as there are better and smaller amps without in-built dacs for this. I use the E7 for certain headphones and it is actually better than my £1500- $2000 hifi set up.... (worrying I know!)    

post #2582 of 37729
Hey Now,

I just got a Blue Dragon cable and re-terminated it with a 4-pin XLR. Now I know I changed two things (balanced and new cable), but I could hear a distinct improvement over the stock cable. It was quite noticeable, for the good. I'm really enjoying it. I haven't tried the HD650s with my other set ups, but it doesn't exhibit any veil through this set up >>

iMac > Fidelia > M2Tech Hiface > Balanced Opus DAC > A-GD Balanced Roc

I felt I had a decent set up for the HD650s and a headphone cable seemed like the next best thing to try out, got a good deal on Head-fi. It made a difference. This coming from a guy who re-cabled his Fostex T40v1s with ethernet Cat6 cable 8^), which sounds very good for a $5 cable.

--
Finest kind,
Chris
post #2583 of 37729
Quote:
Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post

Good point! although I would say that nothing on headfi gets recommended (continually) with out the upmost testing and scrutiny. The E7 is the most cost effective upgrade that Ive come across in years. Not the most practical for portability as there are better and smaller amps without in-built dacs for this. I use the E7 for certain headphones and it is actually better than my £1500- $2000 hifi set up.... (worrying I know!)    



I can't say I agree with that friend. I've perused Head-Fi since long before my membership and I've always found that FOTM products get parroted by the new and inexperienced.

 

It wasn't until I started listening to the setups myself and taking the advice of *experienced* members (experience is indicated by length of membership, and ownership of equipment, NOT post count) that I started heading in the right direction.

post #2584 of 37729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shahrose View Post





I can't say I agree with that friend. I've perused Head-Fi since long before my membership and I've always found that FOTM products get parroted by the new and inexperienced.

 

It wasn't until I started listening to the setups myself and taking the advice of *experienced* members (experience is indicated by length of membership, and ownership of equipment, NOT post count) that I started heading in the right direction.



Good point thanks.  But surely the majority rule..? not that i'm a firm believer in democracy..... I am quite new here, but I will always read reviews from people who have used the item, and you can tell. Or can you you? Yes you can by their reviews. I would say however, to follow the "more experienced, or Headphone Supreme's words rather than the majority, you are in fact being influenced by their own preferences? and we are all different. Don't me get wrong, experience is wisdom. But when someone is at a "certain place" in their journey for perfection, and this may be nearing the summit!, they may not remember exactly what is was like to be climbing up at a certain point. Therefore is it not better to hear people who are at the same point as you, or just a little bit higher?      

post #2585 of 37729

 LugBug1 says:

 

"Good point thanks.  But surely the majority rule..? not that i'm a firm believer in democracy..... I am quite new here, but I will always read reviews from people who have used the item, and you can tell. Or can you you? Yes you can by their reviews. I would say however, to follow the "more experienced, or Headphone Supreme's words rather than the majority, you are in fact being influenced by their own preferences? and we are all different. Don't me get wrong, experience is wisdom. But when someone is at a "certain place" in their journey for perfection, and this may be nearing the summit!, they may not remember exactly what is was like to be climbing up at a certain point. Therefore is it not better to hear people who are at the same point as you, or just a little bit higher? "    

 

I sez in reply: (what is it with Head-Fi.org suddenly identifying the latest version of Google Chrome as a "mobile browser?"  It makes attempts at "WYSIWYG" editing into "FUBAR.")

 

There's something simpler at work here on Head-Fi.org, namely the personal finances of the many people like me who spend so much time here, and website demographics, which are to some extent interrelated with the Head-Fi.org advertisers who pay Jude and Co. (I am curious about more historical background on the ".org" domain extension)  for clickable ads to their own commercial websites and some very pricey products.

 

The Sennhesier 800 is the "#1-rated" headphone (check it out from the home page under Head Gear -> Headphones -> Over-Ear), but is (reportedly) owned by 98 people, of which I certainly wish I was one.

 

The Sennheiser 650s (which I do own)  is "ranked" number 5, but (reportedly) owned by 225 Head-Fi-ers (more than any other model by a considerable margin), each of whom has the ability to make as many posts as the 98 people who currently profess to own Sennhesier 800s.  And I recognize, many Head-Fi-ers own both of those Sennhesier models, or owned one, got rid of it, and then got the other (usually migrating from the 650 to the 800, although I have read personal accounts of "going the other way.")

 

Similary, only 68 Head-Fi-ers profess to owning Audez'e LCD-2 orthodynamic planars, but 44 say they "want it."  It has what we called "buzz" in the advertising/marketing profession.  But what if Sennheiser (or Beyer) were suddenly to introduce an orthodynamic headphone? With their manufacturing economies of scale, dealer-distributor networks, and long histories of acoustic-transducer engineering prowess, it could become a literal "overnight sensation," and justly so.  Audez'e is privately held, but I'd "short-sell" its stock if it was a publicly-traded corporation and I had good intelligence that the hypothetical Sennheiser-or-Beyerdynamic ortho-planar was about to be unveiled.

 

Same things holds true in the hard-to-explain Head-Fi rankings of most everything.  My Maverick Audio D1 Tube Magic is rated #2 among Headphone Amplifiers -> Amp/DACs, (reportedly) owned by 33 Head-Fi-ers, "wanted" by two, and "ditched" by three.  That will become four as soon as my Audio-gd NFB-3 arrives next week, but it is only ranked #13 among DACs (no built-in headphone opamp-powered headphone jack), with just one owner (actually "ninjikirian" owns the more expensive NFB-2) and two people, my Belgian buddy "ultrainferno" and "middachten" (don't know him personally, but he is likewise making a Maverick D1-to-Audio-gd NFB/3 transition) saying they "want" it.

 

The rankings don't seem to be based on whether a component is the individual best sonic performer in its category, has the most owners, provides the most musical value per dollar or whatever.  I have been trying to figure out the algorithm Huddler uses for the rankings, and it may be very close to Google's algorithm that simply counts how many pages on the Head-Fi.org website contain a specific prodcut's name or link to another page containing that specific text string.

 

Dunno.  Jude?  Currawong?  Uncle Erik?  LFF?  Can you help us all out with how products are "ranked" on Head-Fi?


Edited by attenuated 3db - 2/25/11 at 4:00pm
post #2586 of 37729

Rankings on Head-Fi are not good at all IMO. Don't follow them.

 

Instead, listen for yourself (and not just for a couple of hours) and read reviews/impressions of the experienced.

post #2587 of 37729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwikat View Post





Any affordable recommendations?  I like the E7 because I can strap it to my ipod and it works great with my thinkpad.  I've heard the E7/E9 combo is a great bang:buck ratio.  My "serious" listening is just FLAC files from normal CD's.  Would a better DAC make much of a difference when playing from those types of source files?  Eventually I'll invest in some better gear but that won't be for a while as I've got a lot of "life" things coming up soon.  I'm hoping the E7/E9 will suffice for now.  Recabling my HD25's made a huge difference so I thought recabling the HD650's would also make a big difference.  I am still a noob though...



A good cable can indeed be one of the final things to tune your system. But the HD650s really do deserve a great source and amp first. The FiiO E7/E9 combo is a very nice starter setup, but more for the HD555. The HD650s/600s are still "high end" in my books and as such do scale very well with better upstream gear. Like $500+ amp and a $500+ dac. Not to say that you have to be there to get them to sound great, but really to "squeeze most of the juice that is in the HD6X0s", you kinda have to. smile.gif

 

Then you can worry about cable upgrades like the Blue Dragon or ICs and power cords.

post #2588 of 37729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shahrose View Post

Rankings on Head-Fi are not good at all IMO. Don't follow them.

 

Instead, listen for yourself (and not just for a couple of hours) and read reviews/impressions of the experienced.



Seriously, who goes out of their way to utililise those site "features"? It's buggy and high maintenance.

post #2589 of 37729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shahrose View Post

I can't say I agree with that friend. I've perused Head-Fi since long before my membership and I've always found that FOTM products get parroted by the new and inexperienced.

 

It wasn't until I started listening to the setups myself and taking the advice of *experienced* members (experience is indicated by length of membership, and ownership of equipment, NOT post count) that I started heading in the right direction.


If Head-Fi consensus was taken as gospel the M50 and the FiiO amp/dac combo would be the absolute pinnacle.

post #2590 of 37729

OK, finally opened up the box after driving home to Mississippi (box came to my workplace in New Orleans). Sending the music out through the nuforce uDac2 to an old Yamaha receiver (temporary setup). Sounds good, but the bass gets really crackly at higher levels that I probably won't listen at often (will this go away with burn-in?!).

 

I've never had an open set before, so I'm pretty amazed at how loud it gets.

post #2591 of 37729
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikenike View Post

OK, finally opened up the box after driving home to Mississippi (box came to my workplace in New Orleans). Sending the music out through the nuforce uDac2 to an old Yamaha receiver (temporary setup). Sounds good, but the bass gets really crackly at higher levels that I probably won't listen at often (will this go away with burn-in?!).

 

I've never had an open set before, so I'm pretty amazed at how loud it gets.


The "crackly" bass could be you're clipping the uDAC-2 with the HD650s.

post #2592 of 37729
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

A good cable can indeed be one of the final things to tune your system. But the HD650s really do deserve a great source and amp first. The FiiO E7/E9 combo is a very nice starter setup, but more for the HD555. The HD650s/600s are still "high end" in my books and as such do scale very well with better upstream gear. Like $500+ amp and a $500+ dac. Not to say that you have to be there to get them to sound great, but really to "squeeze most of the juice that is in the HD6X0s", you kinda have to. smile.gif

 

Then you can worry about cable upgrades like the Blue Dragon or ICs and power cords.

 

OK.  I'll be happy with what I got then.  These things sound awesome with the E9.  I am way more than happy with it.   The 7/9 combo will be enough to keep me satisfied until I can upgrade to some better stuff.

 

Thanks for the input guys, even if it wasn't what I wanted to hear!  Just another part of learning...
 

post #2593 of 37729
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post




The "crackly" bass could be you're clipping the uDAC-2 with the HD650s.


Ah, I see. Hmm, I was just testing how high my ears could take it before needing to turn it down. The volume level at which it begins to crackle isn't practical for me, anywho, but I do hope that won't be a problem with future investments and better quality audio files (already kind of scared at what I've gotten myself into).

 

First impression is really good so far. I love the separation, which I had a problem with Usher's "Hey Daddy." The song features really low bass, and whenever I listen to it on the ATH-M45, the low bass always mix in with the voice and made his vocals wobbly. Not so with the HD650. The cans aren't too harsh in the highs either, which I already loved before listening (sibilance was a constant problem on the M45, which I think was made worse with the uDac2).

 

I'm gonna go enjoy my new baby some more now. smily_headphones1.gif

post #2594 of 37729

Bought a pair of these today and should get them on Tuesday. Paid around $329 new (JR), which is probably fair. They're much higher on all the websites I've checked at.

I tried these back in 2004 and hated them. Of course this was the "old" version and all I had were portable amps back then. No wonder.

 

My HD-600 always felt very slightly muffled (very hard to notice), so I'm hoping the HD-650 isn't as bad. I'm hoping that this version sounds much better than the old one.

I'm REALLY hoping it will be a lot less veiled/muffled and maybe as bright as my HD-598 (which isn't that bright to begin with).

 

This seems to have the sound signature I like. When I get it i'll compare it to my HD-598 and ATH-AD2000. Probably a 50% chance I'll love it, but who knows.

If it's only a 10-15% improvement of my HD-598 (that I love), then i'll be happy.

 

I'm guessing the soundstage won't be as good as the ATH-AD2000, but maybe i'll be surprised.

post #2595 of 37729
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikenike View Post




Ah, I see. Hmm, I was just testing how high my ears could take it before needing to turn it down. The volume level at which it begins to crackle isn't practical for me, anywho, but I do hope that won't be a problem with future investments and better quality audio files (already kind of scared at what I've gotten myself into).

 

First impression is really good so far. I love the separation, which I had a problem with Usher's "Hey Daddy." The song features really low bass, and whenever I listen to it on the ATH-M45, the low bass always mix in with the voice and made his vocals wobbly. Not so with the HD650. The cans aren't too harsh in the highs either, which I already loved before listening (sibilance was a constant problem on the M45, which I think was made worse with the uDac2).

 

I'm gonna go enjoy my new baby some more now. smily_headphones1.gif


The way you describe your component chain, you are running a Nuforce uDAC-2 into an unspecified Yamaha A/V receiver, which is what the HD650s are actually plugged into? Try this as an experiment: use the 1/4-inch-to-1/8-inch three-way stereo adapter plug that comes in the box with each pair of HD650s and plug them directly into the uDAC-2's headphone jack, rather than using the RCA or S/PDIF optical cable connections on the back of your Nuforce to connect it your Yamaha. Look at my equipment inventory in my profile, and read this old post of mine answering another Head-Fi-er's question:

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/470639/maverick-audio-tubemagic-d1-dac-amp-condensed-faq-and-info-thread/225#post_7199555

I think it will sound better than plugging the HD650s into whatever kind of Yamaha unit you have. Typically, A/V receiver manufacturers "hang" a rather large-value resistor on the headphone-output jack, because most people use their speakers most of the time, which consume much more current from the amplifier output stage. You will probably be like me, and keep your uDAC-2 volume pot at the max-ed out position all the time, but in doing so, I never heard any clipping. The HD650s are a nominal 300-ohm impedence phone, and being powered off of a 5-volt USB port, the uDAC-2 simply cannot deliver enough voltage into that kind of load to clip. You will sometimes wish you could play some types of music louder (particularly things with wide dynamic range or a lot of deep bass content), but I will almost bet money it will sound better to you quality-wise than plugging the HD650s into the Yamaha and using it as your effective headamp. The Nuforce uDAC-2, like their higher-end products, was synergystically designed to be both a DAC and a headphone amp; the Yamaha was not.

Try it, and let me know if I was right or wrong (I am not the least bit afraid of being the latter, including in public).
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