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Sennheiser HD650 Impressions Thread - Page 160

post #2386 of 37385
Quote:
Originally Posted by pigmode View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by pp312 View Post

The 650 seem to stand apart in that regard, having been crafted, or so Sennheiser seem to suggest in their literature, for low listener fatigue above all else.
 



That may be true with early adopters of the V1 650, but times have changed a bit. It seems it has, especially with the revised current drivers and along with a greater selection of HQ amps available today, increased it versatilty noticeably. 650s are much more respected today, than in its introduction and its subsequent revision model.



Probably true. I personally don't feel a treble lack in the 650, at least with aftermarket silver cables. The 650 can reproduce the blare and blat of brass instruments with the best of them, better even--going by some comments--than the LCD-2. This also replies to Roger Strummer's post above--I'm no longer sure that the 650 has "warm non-offensive sound", intentional or not. (Those comments were of course written for the original 650). I'm not even sure the 650s FR is "a deviation from Senn's ideal flat frequency response". The 650 sounds  flat to me, and according to HeadRoom's description of the ideal response for subjective flatness (increased bass, falling treble above 1khz), is just about right. Other FR graphs, one published here, show an even flatter response than HeadRoom's--and amazingly, flatter than all the current flagships!!.

post #2387 of 37385
Quote:
Originally Posted by pp312 View Post



Probably true. I personally don't feel a treble lack in the 650, at least with aftermarket silver cables. The 650 can reproduce the blare and blat of brass instruments with the best of them, better even--going by some comments--than the LCD-2. This also replies to Roger Strummer's post above--I'm no longer sure that the 650 has "warm non-offensive sound", intentional or not. (Those comments were of course written for the original 650). I'm not even sure the 650s FR is "a deviation from Senn's ideal flat frequency response". The 650 sounds  flat to me, and according to HeadRoom's description of the ideal response for subjective flatness (increased bass, falling treble above 1khz), is just about right. Other FR graphs, one published here, show an even flatter response than HeadRoom's--and amazingly, flatter than all the current flagships!!.


 

What measurements are you refering to? In the headroom measurements the 650 seems slightly bassier and trebble rolled off in comparison, but without additional reference it is hard to say which one is the flatter one without a better frame of reference. In the Ryumatsuba site the 800  looks flatter particularly in the bass and midrange. But this  discussion isn't as simple since we are not taking into consideration HRTF, resonances and all that could influence the experience a lot.

 

Anyways my comment about them being a deviation of that response is that compared to other efforts by Senn (580, 595, 600, 800, HE60 and HE90*), the 650 are to my ears a warmer "easier" headphone (I notice this easily on their non sibilance even tracks I know suffer from sibilance, and it quite other aspects like soft cymbals and lack of air). Now I don't say this as a negative comment (and in the grand scheme of things, they are not that far from neutrality either considering the whole marketplace of headphones IMO), it actually is a very good aspect of them (and why I still keep them), and actually with the beta22 they are very very very good. All of this is using the silver screened 650, which if I'm not mistaken is the second and latest version (the black screen version is the earlier one, and reportedly it is darker, I never listened to it).

 

Now I don't doubt that they sound flat to you, but the point that I'm trying to make is that this added warmness (compared to their other headphones which Senn) is what Senn was looking when designing the 650 in order to go after a bigger piece of the market, and makes the 650 quite special, particularly in their price range.

 

 

*Long time since I heard these, hopefully my memory doesn't betray me.

post #2388 of 37385

I'll take your points in order. The other set of graphs I'm referring to were done by another poster here who did a comparison of, from memory, the 650, T1, LCD-2, HD800 and maybe one other. Can't remember the name of the thread and I'm hopeless at re-finding threads anyway (I don't answer half the replies to my posts because I can never find my way back to the same thread. Just call me Mr. Magoo). As for HeadRoom, yes, the graph is bass heavy, treble light but matches HeadRoom's description of the ideal graph for a headphone, where the closeness of the driver to the ear exaggerates treble. I appreciate that there are other factors to take into account but I've found as a general rule that I tend to "hear" the graphs--that is, I can generally predict what a phone will sound like from its FR.  

 

Few would argue that the 650 is an "easier" phone than the 580/600 (though there have been complaints recently about the 650 being overbright, something I don't get). I've listened extensively to the other two and find them somewhat forward and echoey, even harsh, not just in comparison to the 650 but to what I hear in the concert hall. I can understand them being more attractve to listeners of popular music forms but I don't consider them more neutral. They make a nice alternative for those who like the Senn sound but find the 650 too forgiving. For those like myself who find the 650 ideal, with just enough bite but no harshness, there's probably no viable alternative until you get into the $1000 territory with the LCD-2 and its ortho friends. The 650 is, as you suggest, unique and invaluable. To be honest, if it didn't exist I'm not sure what I'd currently be listening to. 595s probably--but that wouldn't be the end of the world.

 

Thank you, Senn, for making these phones just for me and my whimpy friends with our delicate aural orifices. When you're just not man enough for the Denons and Beyers and Grados of the world, Sennheiser will look after you.  rolleyes.gif

 

    

post #2389 of 37385
Quote:
Originally Posted by pp312 View Post
 To be honest, if it didn't exist I'm not sure what I'd currently be listening to. 595s probably--but that wouldn't be the end of the world.

 

Thank you, Senn, for making these phone just for me and my whimpy friends with our delicate aural orifices. When you're just not man enough for the Denons and Beyers and Grados of the world, Sennheiser will look after you.  rolleyes.gif

 

    



agreed. thanks Sennheiser!!!

post #2390 of 37385

I want bookshelf speakers for a nearfield stereo setup that sounds as lush as the HD650. On the budget end of the scale I'm considering the Wharfedale 9.1. If I have a temporary lapse of sanity I may pull the trigger on a pair of Dali Ikon 2 or Ikon 6 floorstanders. This is for a small room (9 x 12ft) with no acoustic treatment. Amp will be a Yamaha A-S300. Any others I should be looking at?

post #2391 of 37385
Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post

I want bookshelf speakers for a nearfield stereo setup that sounds as lush as the HD650. On the budget end of the scale I'm considering the Wharfedale 9.1. If I have a temporary lapse of sanity I may pull the trigger on a pair of Dali Ikon 2 or Ikon 6 floorstanders. This is for a small room (9 x 12ft) with no acoustic treatment. Amp will be a Yamaha A-S300. Any others I should be looking at?


I used to own the Sonus Faber Concertino, beautifully had crafted in Italy, I loved them: they have a similar signature, lush musical, you can't get tired of them.

post #2392 of 37385

this is MY truth:

 

hd600 is great.

 

luckily i bought some USED hd650's for the same price,

 

but if i had not: i would have told everyone that hd600 was better than hd650.

 

 

 

grado's?  yes, they sound good and are "fun"... but they HUURUUUUURRRRRRRRTTTTTTTTTTTTT

my ears after a short period. what is that all about??

 

post #2393 of 37385

So I have about 75 hours on the 650's and HDP since I got them both on Tuesday. Been running them almost 24/7. A couple things I noticed. The headphones are extremely fatiguing to listen to. Maybe it's the amp and not the 650's but I can't listen for more than 40 minutes. I do not listen at loud volumes. I have the volume at about 2-3 o'clock with replaygain enabled and about 10-12 o'clock without replaygain. It seems there is just too much treble or something. Maybe the 650's and HDP need more burn in to smooth out. Also, the bass isn't exactly what I was expecting. I don't get the feel of air being moved. Just not as impactful as I expected. Maybe I had unrealistic expectations.

 

That said. These headphones are incredible. The detail is really great. I am able to pick out each layer of the song. When compared to my UE-11's the 650's seem far more airy and open. My UE-11's have a more direct into your brain type sound that sound great in their own way (perfect for travel). I prefer the bass on my UE-11's though. Can't wait to see how they (HDP and 650's) sound at the 300 hour mark everybody talks about.

 

Now off to the amp forum to learn about tube amps and the WA6. Got a nice road map of upgrades planned. I swear this site drains my wallet more than anything else. I actually had to resist this site for a year so I wouldn't be tempted.

post #2394 of 37385

Fatiguing, in association with the HD650 just does not compute. Although I mainly listen at moderate levels, one of my main concerns with the HD650 is for my hearing, as I'm able to wear it for hours on end without pause when I have the time. This is why I'm now looking at speakers.

post #2395 of 37385
Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post

Fatiguing, in association with the HD650 just does not compute. Although I mainly listen at moderate levels, one of my main concerns with the HD650 is for my hearing, as I'm able to wear it for hours on end without pause when I have the time. This is why I'm now looking at speakers.



Based on everything I have read about the HD650's, I agree it doesn't make sense that they are fatiguing. Dunno what the deal is. I know it's not a good sign when I take them off after 40 minutes and my ears are ringing. It's interesting to note that when I listen to the Head-Fi Open Your Ears HD tracks that I have no listening fatigue after those.

post #2396 of 37385
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkymonkcp View Post

So I have about 75 hours on the 650's and HDP since I got them both on Tuesday. Been running them almost 24/7. A couple things I noticed. The headphones are extremely fatiguing to listen to. Maybe it's the amp and not the 650's but I can't listen for more than 40 minutes. I do not listen at loud volumes. I have the volume at about 2-3 o'clock with replaygain enabled and about 10-12 o'clock without replaygain. It seems there is just too much treble or something. Maybe the 650's and HDP need more burn in to smooth out. Also, the bass isn't exactly what I was expecting. I don't get the feel of air being moved. Just not as impactful as I expected. Maybe I had unrealistic expectations.

 

That said. These headphones are incredible. The detail is really great. I am able to pick out each layer of the song. When compared to my UE-11's the 650's seem far more airy and open. My UE-11's have a more direct into your brain type sound that sound great in their own way (perfect for travel). I prefer the bass on my UE-11's though. Can't wait to see how they (HDP and 650's) sound at the 300 hour mark everybody talks about.

 

Now off to the amp forum to learn about tube amps and the WA6. Got a nice road map of upgrades planned. I swear this site drains my wallet more than anything else. I actually had to resist this site for a year so I wouldn't be tempted.


i'm thinkin it's gotta be the amp, the HD650's are anything but fatiguing, even on the most heavy and extreme stuff i listen to. i have not heard one album on them yet that was unpleasant to listen to. there should also be plenty of bass to satisfy most people, unless of course you're a basshead. sometimes i feel mine may be a tad to bassy, but that's just crazy talk. the focus is definitely the mid-range and bass on the HD650, the top end is just along for the ride. i don't consider them rolled off though either, the treble is there, it's just very smooth and not overpowering.

 

i haven't kept an hour meter on mine, but i've listened to them a whole lot in the 9 weeks i've had them. my best guess is that i have about 250-300 hours on both the headphones and the amp. they may have gotten a little bit bassier since day one, but i can't say for sure. i have since adjusted to the amount of bass they offer and have lowered the bass on my car and home stereo because i now feel they have to much the way i previously had them tuned. same thing with my previous IEM's which i used to think sounded perfect, i now have to EQ out about 4-6 db on the low end on my M2's to be able to listen to them. it's hard to describe the exact feeling or sensation, but the HD650 have what i would call a visceral bass impact. they aren't XB500 bassy by any means, but there is a tightness and snap to the bass that i can almost feel on some, maybe most, recordings.

 

these are the best headphones i have heard, and i can't say i have heard anywhere near close to everything out there, but i honestly think these are perfect and i can't imagine a more perfect sound.

post #2397 of 37385

I just bought some HD600's :(

post #2398 of 37385
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkymonkcp View Post





Based on everything I have read about the HD650's, I agree it doesn't make sense that they are fatiguing. Dunno what the deal is. I know it's not a good sign when I take them off after 40 minutes and my ears are ringing.



do you happen to have an SPL meter? curious on how loud you're actually listening.

 

i'm listening to some Strapping Young Lad in the mid to high 80's dBA right now and it's still not fatiguing.

post #2399 of 37385

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonb

 

i'm thinkin it's gotta be the amp, the HD650's are anything but fatiguing, even on the most heavy and extreme stuff i listen to. i have not heard one album on them yet that was unpleasant to listen to. there should also be plenty of bass to satisfy most people, unless of course you're a basshead. sometimes i feel mine may be a tad to bassy, but that's just crazy talk. the focus is definitely the mid-range and bass on the HD650, the top end is just along for the ride. i don't consider them rolled off though either, the treble is there, it's just very smooth and not overpowering.

 

i haven't kept an hour meter on mine, but i've listened to them a whole lot in the 9 weeks i've had them. my best guess is that i have about 250-300 hours on both the headphones and the amp. they may have gotten a little bit bassier since day one, but i can't say for sure. i have since adjusted to the amount of bass they offer and have lowered the bass on my car and home stereo because i now feel they have to much the way i previously had them tuned. same thing with my previous IEM's which i used to think sounded perfect, i now have to EQ out about 4-6 db on the low end on my M2's to be able to listen to them. it's hard to describe the exact feeling or sensation, but the HD650 have what i would call a visceral bass impact. they aren't XB500 bassy by any means, but there is a tightness and snap to the bass that i can almost feel on some, maybe most, recordings.

 

these are the best headphones i have heard, and i can't say i have heard anywhere near close to everything out there, but i honestly think these are perfect and i can't imagine a more perfect sound.

 

I am quite a bass head in the sense I like to be able to clearly hear the bass and feel the impact. I can clearly hear the bass on the 650's but they really don't have much impact. Maybe it's too early for me to judge the 650's. I am timing my burn in using my iPhone stopwatch. Just want to be clear though, I am in no way dissatisfied with the 650's, they are great.

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonb View Post





do you happen to have an SPL meter? curious on how loud you're actually listening.



Funny you ask because I have been looking at buying one so I can actually figure it out. I don't want any long term damage to my hearing. I will get one in a couple weeks. I really don't think I listen loud because I have demoed the headphones to other people and nobody asked me to turn it down.

post #2400 of 37385
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkymonkcp View Post

 

 

 

I am quite a bass head in the sense I like to be able to clearly hear the bass and feel the impact. I can clearly hear the bass on the 650's but they really don't have much impact. Maybe it's too early for me to judge the 650's. I am timing my burn in using my iPhone stopwatch. Just want to be clear though, I am in no way dissatisfied with the 650's, they are great.

 



Funny you ask because I have been looking at buying one so I can actually figure it out. I don't want any long term damage to my hearing. I will get one in a couple weeks. I really don't think I listen loud because I have demoed the headphones to other people and nobody asked me to turn it down.


the HD650 may not satisfy you in terms of bass if you are a true basshead. you may get used to the sound though if you give them a chance. i used to like quite a bit more bass, but i have since started to focus more on the mid-range. i feel the mid-range is where most of the action is anyway. since getting the HD650 and becoming accustomed to their sound i have lowered the bass in my car by 5db, and i barely even use the sub in my home system for music anymore. the sub in my home system when listening to music is now crossed over at 40hz, letting the speakers do all the work down to that point, and saving the sub for the last octave only. point being, you may get used to the sound and change your ways as i did.

 

if you are looking for an SPL meter, the digital one from Radio Shack will do just fine. i got one years ago to level match speakers in my HT, but it works equally well to get an idea of how loud you're listening to your headphones.

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