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Sennheiser HD650 Impressions Thread - Page 977

post #14641 of 20616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry S View Post
 

After my disappointment with the Modi>Vali>HD650, I've been auditioning the Gungnir>Vali>HD650, and I'm shocked at the difference in sound. With the Modi chain, the HD650 sounded flabby and hazy with compressed dynamics.  The Gungnir chain largely cleans up those problems and makes the HD650 sound very rich with exciting dynamics. I have to listen to the Gungnir>Mjolnir>HD650 again, but I'm not sure I've ever heard the HD650 treble with this much sparkle and clarity. The mid-bass punch of the HD650 hits like a prize fighter--maybe a bit too much, but very fun. The soundstage is intimate, but instrument separation and detail are very nice. This is one of the best chains I've ever heard for the HD650.  I think some of the preferences for the HD600 comes from plugging it into muddy signal chains.  The Gungnir>Vali>HD650 may make you forget about the HD600.

 

Schiit should never have used the Modi-sized chassis for the Vali, because the Modi doesn't begin to take advantage of the Vali's potential.  The Vali deserves a high quality DAC.


Well come on, let's be realistic. The Modi costs $99 and the Gungnir costs $749.

post #14642 of 20616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zalithian View Post
 


Well come on, let's be realistic. The Modi costs $99 and the Gungnir costs $749.


Yep.  I think it's noteworthy that a $119 amp pairs really well with a $749 DAC to make a $499 headphone sound like a million bucks.  Just so you're realistic, I included the following list. :rolleyes: 

 

Uberfrost+Crack/Speedball  $819

Bifrost + Lyr + Amperex Orange Globes $850

Gungnir + Vali  $870

post #14643 of 20616

This idea that the Vali scales up is a bunch of non-sense IMO. You're all basically fixing the Vali's faults with even more (nice) colorations.

You know what the problem is? It's not the Modi. The Vali is what's holding the Modi back and not the other way around.

 

I tried about a half dozen sources with the Vali and the HD-650 and the Vali craps up the sound out of ALL of them. I can't tell any of them apart. In my book attaching a fancy DAC to this thing is like plugging them into an E9. Probably would get similar results when trying to hear their different qualities. You can't. With an O2 or what I already have, it's stupid easy. Why would I want to muck up the sound of a crystal clear DAC with the Vali's muffled noise? I don't.

 

My guess is that maybe the Gungnir has a massive soundstage, is lean and sort of bright with sparkly treble. Well that would do the trick. I wouldn't want to buy an expensive DAC to de-crapify my amp honestly.

 

Feel free to proclaim I'm wrong because I don't have $10,000 gear and have bad hearing. People can test this out and see what they find. There is no reason the Vali should sound bad with an ODAC or Modi when using the HD-650.

 

NOTE: Q701 is pretty amazing on the Vali and didn't change a thing. The HD-650 on it was a complete fail.


Edited by tdockweiler - 12/3/13 at 7:44pm
post #14644 of 20616
I think the problem is that the Vali and 650 just isn't a good pairing by itself. That's one reason why I didn't order the 650. I would have gotten the Magni if I ordered the 650.
post #14645 of 20616
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post
 

This idea that the Vali scales up is a bunch of non-sense IMO. You're all basically fixing the Vali's faults with even more (nice) colorations.

You know what the problem is? It's not the Modi. The Vali is what's holding the Modi back and not the other way around.

 

I tried about a half dozen sources with the Vali and the HD-650 and the Vali craps up the sound out of ALL of them. I can't tell any of them apart. In my book attaching a fancy DAC to this thing is like plugging them into an E9. Probably would get similar results when trying to hear their different qualities. You can't. With an O2 or what I already have, it's stupid easy. Why would I want to muck up the sound of a crystal clear DAC with the Vali's muffled noise? I don't.

 

My guess is that maybe the Gungnir has a massive soundstage, is lean and sort of bright with sparkly treble. Well that would do the trick. I wouldn't want to buy a DAC to de-crapify my amp honestly.

 

Feel free to proclaim I'm wrong because I don't have $10,000 gear and have bad hearing. People can test this out and see what they find. There is no reason the Vali should sound bad with an ODAC or Modi when using the HD-650.

 

NOTE: Q701 is pretty amazing on the Vali and didn't change a thing. The HD-650 on it was a complete fail.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zalithian View Post

I think the problem is that the Vali and 650 just isn't a good pairing by itself. That's one reason why I didn't order the 650. I would have gotten the Magni if I ordered the 650.


I wonder why when I asked a Schiit Tech which amp he would suggest for me to get out of the Magni or the Vali for the Titanium HD Sound Card for the HD 650's the Tech stated "The Vali without a doubt"

post #14646 of 20616
I don't know. Keep in mind I have not heard the combo, but conventional knowledge and some impressions suggest the Magni would the better choice for the 650, at least from the Modi.

Warm hp + warm amp isn't something I'd wanna try. Typically you want to balance cold and warm or warm and cold. Not warm warm cold cold.
post #14647 of 20616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zalithian View Post

I think the problem is that the Vali and 650 just isn't a good pairing by itself. That's one reason why I didn't order the 650. I would have gotten the Magni if I ordered the 650.

 

That could be it. It makes no sense to me why I can hook up the modded Q701 and my K400 to the Vali and they sound amazing. Exactly how they've always been with none of this extra warmth non-sense. I could A/B the Vali with the O2 or similar with the Q701 and maybe fail. It's that dead neutral to me with the Q701. Totally strange. Vali actually may sound even better than the Magni/O2 with the Q701!

 

I actually liked the Magni and O2 with the HD-650 a lot..I would not replace my main amp with them though.

 

HD-650 + Vali sounded best on a DAC that has about zero warmth and has a huge soundstage. That's the only way I could stand the combination.

 

BTW I wonder what the DT-880 sounds like on the Vali? I bet it doesn't magically sound warmer.


Edited by tdockweiler - 12/3/13 at 7:59pm
post #14648 of 20616
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post
 

This idea that the Vali scales up is a bunch of non-sense IMO. You're all basically fixing the Vali's faults with even more (nice) colorations.

You know what the problem is? It's not the Modi. The Vali is what's holding the Modi back and not the other way around.

 

I tried about a half dozen sources with the Vali and the HD-650 and the Vali craps up the sound out of ALL of them. I can't tell any of them apart. In my book attaching a fancy DAC to this thing is like plugging them into an E9. Probably would get similar results when trying to hear their different qualities. You can't. With an O2 or what I already have, it's stupid easy. Why would I want to muck up the sound of a crystal clear DAC with the Vali's muffled noise? I don't.

 

My guess is that maybe the Gungnir has a massive soundstage, is lean and sort of bright with sparkly treble. Well that would do the trick. I wouldn't want to buy a DAC to de-crapify my amp honestly.

 

Feel free to proclaim I'm wrong because I don't have $10,000 gear and have bad hearing. People can test this out and see what they find. There is no reason the Vali should sound bad with an ODAC or Modi when using the HD-650.

 

NOTE: Q701 is pretty amazing on the Vali and didn't change a thing. The HD-650 on it was a complete fail.

 

I wish you were closer than Kalamazoo. so you could come hear some combinations with the Gungnir and Mjolnir. I've listened to as many combinations as possible with the Modi, Gungnir, Magni, Vali, Lyr, and Mjolnir.  You're collecting data points and have some good observations, but you need a better DAC and amp to complete the picture.  The Vali has its issues, but it just doesn't pair well with the Modi. Your sources are likely comparable to the Modi.  Honestly, the Modi>Mjolnir or even the Modi>Lyr is not so hot. If either of those combinations sounded better, I'd be more inclined to believe the Modi was better than what it is--a nice entry-level DAC.

post #14649 of 20616

I've seen a lot of members mention the O2. Is that a DAC? If so, can someone send me a link to it? And is it a pretty good DAC for whatever it's price is? (Yes I did a search for )2 but a bunch of different DACS amps came up so I want to make sure I am looking at the exact one members are referring to. Thanks!

post #14650 of 20616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry S View Post
 

 

I wish you were closer than Kalamazoo. so you could come hear some combinations with the Gungnir and Mjolnir. I've listened to as many combinations as possible with the Modi, Gungnir, Magni, Vali, Lyr, and Mjolnir.  You're collecting data points and have some good observations, but you need a better DAC and amp to complete the picture.  The Vali has its issues, but it just doesn't pair well with the Modi. Your sources are likely comparable to the Modi.  Honestly, the Modi>Mjolnir or even the Modi>Lyr is not so hot. If either of those combinations sounded better, I'd be more inclined to believe the Modi was better than what it is--a nice entry-level DAC.

 

You're quick to judge my gear aren't you? Assuming it's all only as good as a Modi? What? Why do this? Not trying to argue, but this gets old. Don't do this. My current setup sounds amazing with the HD-650 and I'm willing to bet money it's better than anything Schiit could ever produce under $500 or even $1000. Of course it's "worse" because it's not very colored and doesn't change how the HD-650 is supposed to sound. I actually don't even know if they make gear that sounds great with 90% of the headphones out there that isn't an Ortho. All of it has some sort of weird coloration that requires all this synergy nonsense. I hope someday they can make me eat my words. Maybe it already exists and costs a small fortune. You know I've learned to get used to people saying my gear is garbage (not that you did), but i've never been able to find anything better under $500 (yet). Maybe someday.

 

Having to buy a $800 DAC to get good sound from a $120 amp is silly. If the Vali/HD-650 sounds bad with the Modi it'll probably also sound bad with an ODAC. IMO they're at the same level really.

 

I was thinking it's that the HD-650 does NOT pair well with the Vali and not so much the Modi's fault. I could probably fix that right up though with a different colored DAC. Might take me about 12 different DACs but i'm sure I can find one!

 

The Q701 and Modi sounds great with the Vali. The Modi sounds just like it always has sounded with that headphone.

 

When I listen to the HD-650 on the Vali with ANY source it sounds almost like an under-driven HD-650. This is probably impossible.

 

Actually I don't even care about the Vali anymore, but I still am interested in how it pairs with other headphones such as the T90 or DT-880 etc.


Edited by tdockweiler - 12/3/13 at 8:48pm
post #14651 of 20616
Yikes, no offense intended. Only trying to explain why the great sound of the Gungnir>Vali with the HD650 might be at odds with your characterization of the Vali. Enjoy your gear.
post #14652 of 20616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry S View Post

Yikes, no offense intended. Only trying to explain why the great sound of the Gungnir>Vali with the HD650 might be at odds with your characterization of the Vali. Enjoy your gear.

 

Sorry, I got carried away. I think I will try all this fancy gear in a meet sometime. I know my gear doesn't cost a fortune but I don't listen to music more than a couple hours a day. It's even way overkill for that, but was worth every penny. Not trying to say you're wrong and i'm right. Maybe the Vali will really sound 10x better with $500+ DACs. I wonder if it's better with the Bifrost compared to the Modi? Some say the Bifrost really isn't that much better than the Modi..

I've probably been through 6 amps just for the HD-650 and finally found one I love and have been on the search for even better under $500. The Vali was going to be used as a bedroom amp, but it only sounded good with my AKGs :confused_face_2:

 

Right now I have to say the Vali has felt like a sick joke to me. On day one it was amazing with the Q701 but everything else sounds bad.

If it takes a $500 DAC to sound great i'll pass :normal_smile :

 

Maybe the ODAC actually is better for it than the Modi.

 

It's just so confusing why the Modi sounds great with the Q701 and Vali but not the HD-650 or my DJ100. The Modi is generally crystal clear. My AC powered DAC  costs around $350 when it was new and it even holds up very well to that. I also found the Modi better than even the ODAC.


Edited by tdockweiler - 12/3/13 at 9:14pm
post #14653 of 20616
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGame View Post
 

I've seen a lot of members mention the O2. Is that a DAC? If so, can someone send me a link to it? And is it a pretty good DAC for whatever it's price is? (Yes I did a search for )2 but a bunch of different DACS amps came up so I want to make sure I am looking at the exact one members are referring to. Thanks!

 

It's an amp, but there is a DAC that goes with it called the ODAC. You can buy them from JDSlabs or try to build one. I actually found the Modi to be as good.

I actually love the HD-650 + O2, but not everyone will. My current favorite sounds like basically an O2 on steroids. So..not for everyone. I really hate warm sounding amps with the HD-650.

 

With my modded Q701 the Vali definitely doesn't fall under that category. No kidding. :normal_smile :

Not sure why it magically changes it's tune with the HD-650.

 

You know what the Vali sounds like with the Modi and Q701? An O2 with very very slightly fuller mids and slightly smoother treble. Bizarre. Basically it adds about almost nothing to how my Q701 normally sounds.


Edited by tdockweiler - 12/3/13 at 9:29pm
post #14654 of 20616

tdock - you should pause before hitting that submit button. The old man yelling at clouds routine is a chore to wade through. Edits after submitting also diminish the conviction of your views, frazzled as they are.

post #14655 of 20616

^ reported this. Stop trolling me with your crap man

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