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post #14191 of 18305
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post #14192 of 18305
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post
 

 

Additionally, I don't think I've ever seen any of the major headphone manufacturers claim that balanced was audibly different than single ended.

 

Now that I think about it, I don't recall seeing any of the major amp manufacturers claiming that either.

 

One would think that if there really was an audible difference, and it sounded better, the entire industry would have migrated to balanced amps and headphones fifteen or twenty years ago.

 

But maybe I'm wrong.  Can anybody help me out here?

 

Balanced is two single ended amps in the same box usually with separate power transformers for each channel. You're getting twice the power, and with fixed SNR's, were talking about less noise since neither channel has to be driven as hard. This is true for true balanced topology amps, otherwise two amps with a coupling circuit will still crosstalk. 

 

Theorhetically the channel separation alone should be audible. It's just hard to compare a balanced amp to a single ended one because usually the balanced amps have improvements to their analog componentry as well like tons more buffering capacitors, an input bypass (avoids input caps so your input signal is truer to source, since the rest of the circuit is cleaner), and sometimes just plain out better from PCB onwards. The Beta22 is a marvel if you understand how it works for example.

 

Balanced amps are just inconvenient to a lot of people and not everybody wants to buy balanced cables or have an amp 2-3x the size of their wonderbox amps now.

 

I wouldn't say you're straight wrong, but there is a lot to say for balanced amps. It's the reason people run monoblocks for their speakers vs an integrated amp that does everything. Keeping everything as separate as possible is the great way to get music from A to B without any interference, loss of signal due to crosstalk, and it should avoid channel imbalance :)

post #14193 of 18305

Well said Chris and a good post. The hd650 remains the one hp that I haven't been fickle enough to sell. The mids are just stellar, the comfort is top notch and I love the way they have scaled and responded to better gear. 

 

I do have this little devil on my shoulder that says to me, "sell the 650, you really would like the 800 so much better." :veryevil:  I really hate that guy. 

post #14194 of 18305
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTCG View Post

Well said Chris and a good post. The hd650 remains the one hp that I haven't been fickle enough to sell. The mids are just stellar, the comfort is top notch and I love the way they have scaled and responded to better gear. 

 

I do have this little devil on my shoulder that says to me, "sell the 650, you really would like the 800 so much better." :veryevil:  I really hate that guy. 

But unfortunately he is right. After trying HD700 with my setups i unable to come bac to HD650 and after trying HD800 at home i found out i have to have them as the end game headphones and it finally happened
post #14195 of 18305
Quote:
Originally Posted by olegausany View Post

But unfortunately he is right. After trying HD700 with my setups i unable to come bac to HD650 and after trying HD800 at home i found out i have to have them as the end game headphones and it finally happened



That's what I do.... :dt880smile:

post #14196 of 18305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_Himself View Post
 

 

Balanced is two single ended amps in the same box usually with separate power transformers for each channel. You're getting twice the power, and with fixed SNR's, were talking about less noise since neither channel has to be driven as hard. This is true for true balanced topology amps, otherwise two amps with a coupling circuit will still crosstalk. 

 

Theorhetically the channel separation alone should be audible. It's just hard to compare a balanced amp to a single ended one because usually the balanced amps have improvements to their analog componentry as well like tons more buffering capacitors, an input bypass (avoids input caps so your input signal is truer to source, since the rest of the circuit is cleaner), and sometimes just plain out better from PCB onwards. The Beta22 is a marvel if you understand how it works for example.

 

Balanced amps are just inconvenient to a lot of people and not everybody wants to buy balanced cables or have an amp 2-3x the size of their wonderbox amps now.

 

I wouldn't say you're straight wrong, but there is a lot to say for balanced amps. It's the reason people run monoblocks for their speakers vs an integrated amp that does everything. Keeping everything as separate as possible is the great way to get music from A to B without any interference, loss of signal due to crosstalk, and it should avoid channel imbalance :)

Isn't that more of a description of bridged amps?  Balanced I thought was about being able to use long cable runs while reducing noise.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_audio

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridged_and_paralleled_amplifiers

 

At least that's what I always understood.

post #14197 of 18305
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTCG View Post
 

Well said Chris and a good post. The hd650 remains the one hp that I haven't been fickle enough to sell. The mids are just stellar, the comfort is top notch and I love the way they have scaled and responded to better gear.

 

I do have this little devil on my shoulder that says to me, "sell the 650, you really would like the 800 so much better." :veryevil:  I really hate that guy.

I take back everything I previously said about the 800. I recently visited a friend in Denver(who I borrowed them from) while at a boring business meeting. I heard them through his rig (Fosgate Signature amp) and I have the combo on the way. It was like the first time I heard music. Listen to that voice Matt:evil:

post #14198 of 18305

^^ You are evil my friend. :p

post #14199 of 18305
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTCG View Post

^^ You are evil my friend. :p

No we are your friends. HD700 are the lowest way to go but unfortunately to my ears HD800 difference is the way to go
post #14200 of 18305

All we need now is a HD 750 to complete the high-end lineup...until they make a HD 900 that is.

post #14201 of 18305
Quote:
Originally Posted by BucketInABucket View Post
 

All we need now is a HD 750 to complete the high-end lineup...until they make a HD 900 that is.


They already have. It's just named a little differently. They swapped the D for an E and dropped a zero at the end.... ;)

post #14202 of 18305

I just want to say that I find 650s sound so realistic as if I'm sitting right in a concert hall. There may be other great headphones but I doubt if they can be better in this aspect... The slightly rolled off treble and the slowness of the bass is what one typically get in a live concert. 

post #14203 of 18305

Yes they are definitely a great set of cans, even after over a month of listening to them I am still very pleased with them. I have a bunch of other cans like Beyerdynamic DT990 Pros, Audio Technica ATH-m50's and Shure SE535's among others and the HD650 is the only set of cans I listen to anymore. When you combine them with a good amp (I'm saving up to buy a Schiit Lyr) and a good DAC, they sound even better. If you do not have an amp, a lot of Head-fiers recommend the Bottlehead Crack as a great amp for the HD650's.A friend of mine and fellow Head-fier just got his Bottlehead Crack amp and said it sounds great with the HD650's, almost as if that amp was made for them. You'll find others here at head-fi who agree with that.


Edited by TheGame - 11/2/13 at 9:28am
post #14204 of 18305

These are very good headphones!

post #14205 of 18305
Hey I'm curious, how are the SE535 for approximating a portable HD650? My next IEM is either them or an SM2 and I just can't decide...if the SE535 were cheaper it would be a no-brainer since durability is a must for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGame View Post

Yes they are definitely a great set of cans, even after over a month of listening to them I am still very pleased with them. I have a bunch of other cans like Beyerdynamic DT990 Pros, Audio Technica ATH-m50's and Shure SE535's among others and the HD650 is the only set of cans I listen to anymore. When you combine them with a good amp (I'm saving up to buy a Schiit Lyr) and a good DAC, they sound even better. If you do not have an amp, a lot of Head-fiers recommend the Bottlehead Crack as a great amp for the HD650's.A friend of mine and fellow Head-fier just got his Bottlehead Crack amp and said it sounds great with the HD650's, almost as if that amp was made for them. You'll find others here at head-fi who agree with that.
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