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Sennheiser HD650 Impressions Thread - Page 946

post #14176 of 20028

Guys, please recall that it is important to differentiate between balanced designs (i.e. simply having equal impedance to ground) and true differential amps (i.e. push pull designs that actually eliminate common mode distortion).

 

All differential amps are balanced.  Not so the other way around.  Frankly, neither such quality of a given amplifier (or lack thereof), taken in isolation, should make a day and night difference in perceived sound quality.  

post #14177 of 20028
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeptic View Post
 

Guys, please recall that it is important to differentiate between balanced designs (i.e. simply having equal impedance to ground) and true differential amps (i.e. push pull designs that actually eliminate common mode distortion).

 

All differential amps are balanced.  Not so the other way around.  Frankly, neither such quality of a given amplifier (or lack thereof), taken in isolation, should make a day and night difference in perceived sound quality.  

 

Additionally, I don't think I've ever seen any of the major headphone manufacturers claim that balanced was audibly different than single ended.

 

Now that I think about it, I don't recall seeing any of the major amp manufacturers claiming that either.

 

One would think that if there really was an audible difference, and it sounded better, the entire industry would have migrated to balanced amps and headphones fifteen or twenty years ago.

 

But maybe I'm wrong.  Can anybody help me out here?

post #14178 of 20028
Hey USG! Been a while since we've crossed paths. Hope life is treating you well.

Following up the above, I'm presently building a bh mainline (which has both se and balanced outs, but is not a push pull topology). doc b., who is, in my mind, about as reputable and gracious as they come, recently suggested in the bh forums that he does perceive some improvement in bass when running balanced off this amp. In essence, the ground pins of the 4 pin xlr output are wired from the two output transformer secondaries. See http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,4616.0.html

Hoping to finish my mainline in the next week or so, and then I will eventually diy a cable to see if I can hear the same. I'm very curious about it since my understanding was the same as yours prior to reading doc's comment.
Edited by skeptic - 10/29/13 at 10:48am
post #14179 of 20028
edit: deleted duplicate post
Edited by skeptic - 10/29/13 at 9:06am
post #14180 of 20028
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeptic View Post

Hey USG! Been a while since we've crossed paths. Hope life is treating you well.

Following up the above, I'm presently building a bh mainline (which has both se and balanced outs, but is not a push pull topology). doc b., who is, in my mind, about as reputable and gracious as they come, recently suggested in the bh forums that he does perceive some improvement in bass when running balanced off this amp. In essence, the ground pins of the 4 pin xlr output are wired from the two output transformer secondaries. See http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,4616.0.html

Hoping to finish my mainline in the next week or so, and then I will eventually diy a cable to see if I can hear the same. I'm very curious about it since my understanding was the same as yours prior to reading doc's comment.

 

Hi Skeptic

 

It's been a while.  :-)

 

I read what Dr B wrote but  a) I think what he's referring to may be specific to his tube amp. b) may be a coloration of some type, since we're dealing with tube topology.  c) he admits that he can't account for it, which, unfortunately, firmly places his anecdote on thin ice.

 

But I'll read through it again later when I have more time. :-) 

 

Never the less, it is a curious finding.

post #14181 of 20028
I'm running my HD650s through E7/E9 combo and really love them. I'm expecting my Crack to turn up within the next week or so, as well, so absolutely psyched to finally put it together.

That said, will the E7 DAC be a significant bottleneck? What DAC recommendations could HFers give for the Crack > x > HD650 chain?

Thanks.
post #14182 of 20028
Quote:
Originally Posted by grrraymond View Post

I'm running my HD650s through E7/E9 combo and really love them. I'm expecting my Crack to turn up within the next week or so, as well, so absolutely psyched to finally put it together.

That said, will the E7 DAC be a significant bottleneck? What DAC recommendations could HFers give for the Crack > x > HD650 chain?

Thanks.


Can't go wrong with an Uberfrost (Schiit Bifrost with Uber upgrade) ;)

post #14183 of 20028
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post
 

 

Additionally, I don't think I've ever seen any of the major headphone manufacturers claim that balanced was audibly different than single ended.

 

Now that I think about it, I don't recall seeing any of the major amp manufacturers claiming that either.

 

One would think that if there really was an audible difference, and it sounded better, the entire industry would have migrated to balanced amps and headphones fifteen or twenty years ago.

 

But maybe I'm wrong.  Can anybody help me out here?

 

yes, buy nfb10.33:D

post #14184 of 20028

Hello everyone!

I'm 'relatively new' to Head-fi as against many others who post here...

 

I have always been an IEM guy. The only pair of headphones that I have owned until today are the Sennheiser HD438, which cost me $70 around 4 years back (even for $70, I had to convince myself in the beginning that they were worth the money !!) They have served me well with gaming and movies and are still going strong!

I have always loved the intimacy and portability of IEMs - easy to carry around and complete isolation, when I need to zone out. Tried quite many of them and never thought about switching over to headphones.

 

But then, a week before, I had an urge to try a good pair of headphones and see what the fuss is all about..?

Now I, for one, am one of those people that believe in going for the best. So, here I was on Head-fi again....reading and researching through innumerable threads and reviews.

Finally, the Sennheiser HD650 seemed to possess all those qualities that I could wish for in a pair of headphones. Before I could pull the trigger, I wondered if not having an audiophile grade amp could jeopardize the SQ of HD650...??! But somehow, I managed to convince myself enough to order the HD650, and worry about the amp later...

 

Today, when I received "my" Senn HD650, I was simply amazed as I opened the box. It's absolutely gorgeous and aesthetically very beautiful. 

I plugged it into iBasso DX50 >> Line Out >> Fiio E12 and WHoOW !! was my first reaction.......It has such a massive soundstage!! and the Bass - ohh My God, it's frigging Awesome!! The mids and vocals are very smooooth and the imaging and instrument separation is Spectacular!!

I cannot believe I have been missing out on so much with IEMs!!

 

For now, I'm satisfied with the E12 and enjoying my HD650. I have already started hunting for a good amp for the HD650, but I'm in no rush.

 

Now, before you could comment on anything I just said about the HD650, please take it with a spoonful of Salt - since neither am I an expert reviewer, nor been exposed to many headphones (HD650 is my second ever headphone).

I simply wanted to share my experience with fellow Head-fi'ers, without whom I wouldn't have had the chance to try such a brilliant piece of equipment.

 

As someone on 1st page said : I'm now a part of TEAM HD 650

 


Edited by BadBoySimran - 10/30/13 at 10:52am
post #14185 of 20028
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBoySimran View Post
 

Hello everyone!

I'm 'relatively new' to Head-fi as against many others who post here...

 

I have always been an IEM guy. The only pair of headphones that I have owned until today are the Sennheiser HD438, which cost me $70 around 4 years back (even for $70, I had to convince myself in the beginning that they were worth the money !!) They have served me well with gaming and movies and are still going strong!

I have always loved the intimacy and portability of IEMs - easy to carry around and complete isolation, when I need to zone out. Tried quite many of them and never thought about switching over to headphones.

 

But then, a week before, I had an urge to try a good pair of headphones and see what the fuss is all about..?

Now I, for one, am one of those people that believe in going for the best. So, here I was on Head-fi again....reading and researching through innumerable threads and reviews.

Finally, the Sennheiser HD650 seemed to possess all those qualities that I could wish for in a pair of headphones. Before I could pull the trigger, I wondered if not having an audiophile grade amp could jeopardize the SQ of HD650...??! But somehow, I managed to convince myself enough to order the HD650, and worry about the amp later...

 

Today, when I received "my" Senn HD650, I was simply amazed as I opened the box. It's absolutely gorgeous and aesthetically very beautiful. 

I plugged it into iBasso DX50 >> Line Out >> Fiio E12 and WHoOW !! was my first reaction.......It has such a massive soundstage!! and the Bass - ohh My God, it's frigging Awesome!! The mids and vocals are very smooooth and the imaging and instrument separation is Spectacular!!

I cannot believe I have been missing out on so much with IEMs!!

 

For now, I'm satisfied with the E12 and enjoying my HD650. I have already started hunting for a good amp for the HD650, but I'm in no rush.

 

Now, before you could comment on anything I just said about the HD650, please take it with a spoonful of Salt - since neither am I an expert reviewer, nor been exposed to many headphones (HD650 is my second ever headphone).

I simply wanted to share my experience with fellow Head-fi'ers, without whom I wouldn't have had the chance to try such a brilliant piece of equipment.

 

As someone on 1st page said : I'm now a part of TEAM HD 650

 

 

Welcome aboard!

post #14186 of 20028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorspeaker View Post
 

yes, buy nfb10.33:D

 

OK, I read the blurb.  Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see any claim that balanced was audibly different than single ended.  :frown:

post #14187 of 20028
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBoySimran View Post
 

As someone on 1st page said : I'm now a part of TEAM HD 650

 

Welcome to the club! These are good folks. Plus, I love how many pages this thread has, because this headphone is so legendary. Let's hit 1,000 pages soon!

I recently bought a Crack from a very nice Massdropper, and will lay out my comments once it is built, but from what they say the Bottlehead Crack has incredible synergy with these cans.

 

Good stuff mate! Enjoy 'em.

post #14188 of 20028
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBoySimran View Post
  Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Hello everyone!

I'm 'relatively new' to Head-fi as against many others who post here...

 

I have always been an IEM guy. The only pair of headphones that I have owned until today are the Sennheiser HD438, which cost me $70 around 4 years back (even for $70, I had to convince myself in the beginning that they were worth the money !!) They have served me well with gaming and movies and are still going strong!

I have always loved the intimacy and portability of IEMs - easy to carry around and complete isolation, when I need to zone out. Tried quite many of them and never thought about switching over to headphones.

 

But then, a week before, I had an urge to try a good pair of headphones and see what the fuss is all about..?

Now I, for one, am one of those people that believe in going for the best. So, here I was on Head-fi again....reading and researching through innumerable threads and reviews.

Finally, the Sennheiser HD650 seemed to possess all those qualities that I could wish for in a pair of headphones. Before I could pull the trigger, I wondered if not having an audiophile grade amp could jeopardize the SQ of HD650...??! But somehow, I managed to convince myself enough to order the HD650, and worry about the amp later...

 

Today, when I received "my" Senn HD650, I was simply amazed as I opened the box. It's absolutely gorgeous and aesthetically very beautiful. 

I plugged it into iBasso DX50 >> Line Out >> Fiio E12 and WHoOW !! was my first reaction.......It has such a massive soundstage!! and the Bass - ohh My God, it's frigging Awesome!! The mids and vocals are very smooooth and the imaging and instrument separation is Spectacular!!

I cannot believe I have been missing out on so much with IEMs!!

 

For now, I'm satisfied with the E12 and enjoying my HD650. I have already started hunting for a good amp for the HD650, but I'm in no rush.

 

Now, before you could comment on anything I just said about the HD650, please take it with a spoonful of Salt - since neither am I an expert reviewer, nor been exposed to many headphones (HD650 is my second ever headphone).

I simply wanted to share my experience with fellow Head-fi'ers, without whom I wouldn't have had the chance to try such a brilliant piece of equipment.

 

As someone on 1st page said : I'm now a part of TEAM HD 650

 

Welcome aboard and enjoy!!!!!!

post #14189 of 20028
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post
....

I read what Dr B wrote but  a) I think what he's referring to may be specific to his tube amp. b) may be a coloration of some type, since we're dealing with tube topology.  c) he admits that he can't account for it, which, unfortunately, firmly places his anecdote on thin ice.

 

But I'll read through it again later when I have more time. :-) 

 

Never the less, it is a curious finding.

 

I tend to agree - but should note that I've since seen Doc make at least one similar comment about hearing the same in speaker setups as well.  Although clearly not limited to the mainline, I believe his posts have consistently made reference to wiring up output transformer secondaries based on this perception.  I imagine this could then theoretically apply to both tube and ss WOT designs.  Also, as you pointed out, Doc is also candid in disclaiming, up front, that he can't really account for the why of it - despite his extensive experience designing tube amps.  [I give Doc a lot of credence in sharing these impressions because he and bottlehead's other engineers really know their field and have never pushed the balanced concept in their products.  The mainline is their first amp that even includes a balanced jack, as a complement to its TRS jack, and it adds a whopping $5 to the cost of the amp's components (which are otherwise unchanged save for the addition of an output selector switch).]

 

I ran a few a few searches and stumbled on this interesting old thread (only 1 page) in which qusp - also a MOT - echoes Doc's comment about perceiving improved bass response from balanced amps.  Very curious indeed from a guy who is a major proponent of "the wire" over on diyaudio.  This thread (http://www.head-fi.org/t/576339/balanced-vs-single-ended-poll ) is definitely worth a read and contains a fascinating set of remarks from an engineer at Benchmark who cites a number of disadvantages to differential designs, particularly in the headphone world. 


Edited by skeptic - 10/30/13 at 1:08pm
post #14190 of 20028
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post

OK, I read the blurb.  Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see any claim that balanced was audibly

I m jus a daily user...i heard a diff...fwiw. wink.gif
N seldom do manufacturers make claims like
U will hear a tall deep wide soundstage with better control of the bass...
they jus put the techspecs down wait for some rave reviews to mkt their wares.
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