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Sennheiser HD650 Impressions Thread - Page 92

post #1366 of 36851
Quote:
Originally Posted by SP Wild View Post


 


Interestingly enough the second time I auditioned the HD800 (twice I auditioned it second time I brought my valve amp and found the HD800 took away what I liked about the valve amp - making it sound solid state like????) I ended up purchasing the D7000, one minor reason that swayed me was that I felt upon auditioning that the D7000 equaled the HD800's treble with more bass substance...Now I battle sibilance issues with the D7000, the single most annoying fault of these fine phones.....

 

 


Interesting, haven't heard much about sibilance issues with the D7000 (although I haven't heard them, not particularly interested in something bassier than what I have).

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SP Wild View Post

 

The HD650 has a beautiful and underdamped treble that is forgiving of the worst treble crimes.  But I feel the champion treble reproducer that I have heard, that sounds the most natural belongs to the.....K701.  Never too sibilant, never too underdamped...you could forgive the low bass presence....if it weren't for the flawed upper mids.

 

The HD650 plays it safe...Thank goodness such a phone exists - with no major fatal flaws...or I'd gone insane trying to find a phone I liked.  As for the smooth nature - the rolled of treble will have something to do with it....but some interesting news is Tyll's latest distortion measurements made in his new chamber...The HD600 measured lowest of distortion in a range of measured popular reference headphones, including the HD800...The HD650 is said to have an even lower measured distortion than the HD600 on previous measurements (yet to be confirmed in the new chamber)...That smoothness also can be attributed to this low distortion figure.  This I am forced to agree with...because when I first got my hi-end bryston dac my initial complaint was that it was "too smooth" and "rolled off" compared the dacmagic....with adaptation and research...it was the lower distortion giving that impression.

 

 

 

 

Hmmm... haven't think about the 701's in quite a while, but yeah, you are right, not sibilant nor underdamped seems adequate for them.

 

I've been following very close Tyll's thread, and there are lots of interesting results (and there will be more). It is incredible the practically non existent harmonic distortions of the 650, I wonder if/what other headphones can compare. It is notable the difference of behaviour between 6x0 and 800

 

But I think it is early to use them for more than educated guesses, I would wait until after CanJam, and until the site for viewing the data gets going, it will be very useful to see some headphones that are not in the Headroom site.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SP Wild View Post


 

 

I found the HD800 had a midrange equally as smooth as the HD650....but problematic in the treble range...on paper the distortion in the HD800 in the treble ranges is what gives the HD600 the lead in distortion numbers.  On a final note...it wasn't precisely the overcooked treble that killed the HD800 for me although it contributed massively to it.  It seems I am the only one to bring it up, it is the gigantic "phase effect" soundstage that my brain could not comprehend that led to listening fatigue within 20 minutes, in a way I have never felt before.  The K701 will do it after listening at way too loud levels or for too long.  The HD800 overdoes it when the volume was not very loud in a very short duration in a manner that literally destroyed my mind.

 

 

 

Personally I don't find the midrange of the 650 far from the midrange of the 800, Qualia, K1000 and HE90, which is a lot to say (although it's been a long while since I listened to the HE90), they are phenomenal given the price. 

 

I always wondered if someone suffered from something like what you say. I don't find that strange, in a way it is similar to the way that some people cannot stand more than 5 minutes playing a first person shooter (like my sister), and if I had to guess it's got something to do with psychoacoustics, my hypothesis is that your brain is not adapted to the cues that headphones use, or particularly how they use them (I'm not saying that with any negative connotation by the way), so when you hear some headphones that use them to a greater degree your brain gets tired of trying to adjust to something unnatural. I grew up listening to headphones, so for me they are the natural way of listening sound reproduction. My brain is so used to headphones that it automatically creates a mapping of headstage <-> reality, so whenever I close my eyes I find everything natural, and on the opposite hand of what you say the hd800's headstage is its biggest positive point to me. But I will investigate more on this matter, seems very interesting.

post #1367 of 36851

I thought I was gonna stop posting but I'm replying again. :)

 

"If you would like a good read about the peaks in the headphones I would look at the measurements that Tyll made to the HD800 in the thread of his new measurements lab. It varied quite a bit when changing the positioning in the head, just another point of caution when using another person's recommendations when eq'ing the headphones."

 

ok, point taken.

 

ATM I'm just turning all the frequencies from 3k-14k down a mere 2 db to somewhat compensate for the peaks, and also turning down the hump in the bass the same amount. The cymbals sound a lot less annoying now. . . the bass may be slightly clearer. . . mids sound more like they should.

 

"I was of course referring to an external graphic equaliser, not Foobar. In my day (now listen to this, you young whippersnappers)...in my day all we had was these metal boxes with sliders, see. No such thing as Foobar back then, I can tell you....  (hobbles off on walking frame)

 

More seriously, but not much more, if you turn down all the frequencies you've said you turn down, I'm surprised you hear anything at all.  :)"

 

oh. . . sorry i don't even know what that is, bare with me I'm fairly new to this stuff. . . and i'm still young.

 

 

 

I don't disagree that the 650s mids sound great overall. . . just a little loud in some places. . . at the very least this can't possibly be right unless I'm going completely crazy: http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=683&graphID[]=573&graphID[]=853

 

The bass just isn't THAT loud compared to the higher frequencies. The bass seems to sound loud-ish but no more loud than the upper mids or maybe some of the highs. It might be my amp tho.

 


Edited by Satellite_6 - 5/24/10 at 2:56pm
post #1368 of 36851

I am interested in this set of phones but I'm not sure how well they work with the Heed Canamp.  Can anyone comment on this?

post #1369 of 36851

A sort of "converted" here :-)

I got a pair of HD650s a month ago and initially found them decent but as good as my K702.

Then a few days ago I got a (cheap) balanced cable...and what a surprise! They're totally different now, and an absolute match made in heaven with my Roc/Reference5. Nice soundstage, warm signature never fatiguing, good detail...they're better in every parameter now.

This is the kind sound I've always been looking for since I sold my speaker setup (I use to own a pair of Sonus Faber)

Well, these headphones are so good I just put my K702 in a box :-O

post #1370 of 36851
Quote:
Originally Posted by realmassy View Post

Well, these headphones are so good I just put my K702 in a box :-O



I put mine in a box and sold them long ago, along with the Beyer 880, AT AD900, Denon 2000...in fact just about every phone that's ever been mentioned in these pages. I've finally accepted it: the only phones I can live with are the Senn 650 and 595. To me all the others sound over-bright, thin, coarse, just plain wrong, at least for orchestral/classical music. Maybe they work for rock, electronica or whatever, but I attend symphony concerts regularly and no way do any of these phones replicate what I hear in the concert hall from any position or distance; they simply are not naturally balanced. Some will argue otherwise, I know, but I would urge those people to attend just one orchestral concert (or just take in a Salvation Army band on the nearest street corner); I guarantee their first reaction will be, "How come it sounds so dull? Where's the treble control?" . Live acoustic music is not bright and piercing like most headphones, with details jumping out at you. It's smooth, rich, organic and homogenous, like the 650.

 

Of course, if you don't care about realistic and just want your ears bored out, that's another matter. :) 

post #1371 of 36851

What a great topic...

 

I have been a Senn HD650 owner for about five years. In that time I've flirted with selling them at least four times!

Right now listening to the incredibly smooth, comforting sounds of Miles Davis', "Sketches of Spain", I love them

again, even using them when I play my electronic drums. Talk about being all rounders! My question is about

what improvements might be had from changing my amp. Headroom's Micro Amp with the cardas cable is currently my main unit

and the setup does not include a DAC, the music is coming straight from the iMac. Am I missing something sonically? What do all

of you very informed, experienced people think?

 

Bryan

post #1372 of 36851

I suggest you try a new DAC, the built-in DAC of Macs is not that good. Keep that amp but change the DAC. Some neutral DAC like  DACmagic, DrDAC Prime, or Audinst MX1 would be a good option. My Aundinst MX1 is serving me well :)

 

About the HD650, I don't know if I should love or hate it. The sound is clearly not neutral but at the same time addictive! The more I listen, the more I want to keep them 

post #1373 of 36851
Quote:
Originally Posted by pp312 View Post
I put mine in a box and sold them long ago, along with the Beyer 880, AT AD900, Denon 2000...in fact just about every phone that's ever been mentioned in these pages. I've finally accepted it: the only phones I can live with are the Senn 650 and 595. To me all the others sound over-bright, thin, coarse, just plain wrong, at least for orchestral/classical music. Maybe they work for rock, electronica or whatever, but I attend symphony concerts regularly and no way do any of these phones replicate what I hear in the concert hall from any position or distance; they simply are not naturally balanced. Some will argue otherwise, I know, but I would urge those people to attend just one orchestral concert (or just take in a Salvation Army band on the nearest street corner); I guarantee their first reaction will be, "How come it sounds so dull? Where's the treble control?" . Live acoustic music is not bright and piercing like most headphones, with details jumping out at you. It's smooth, rich, organic and homogenous, like the 650.

 

Of course, if you don't care about realistic and just want your ears bored out, that's another matter. :) 


I enjoyed this.  Well said. :)  I don't know which I prefer, i.e., the HD800 or 650.  I've been alternating between them. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noobiiee View Post

I suggest you try a new DAC, the built-in DAC of Macs is not that good. Keep that amp but change the DAC. Some neutral DAC like  DACmagic, DrDAC Prime, or Audinst MX1 would be a good option. My Aundinst MX1 is serving me well :)

 

About the HD650, I don't know if I should love or hate it. The sound is clearly not neutral but at the same time addictive! The more I listen, the more I want to keep them 


I agree with this piece of advice.  The good thing about the Mac is that it's easy to get a digital signal from it, whether it be via USB or optical via the headphone output that's actually acts as a dual digital-optical/headphone output.  I'd recommend the HeadRoom MicroDAC.

post #1374 of 36851
Quote:
Originally Posted by aimlink View Post


I don't know which I prefer, i.e., the HD800 or 650.  I've been alternating between them. 
 


 



Is the 800 much brighter than the 650? I read a very thoughtful, considered professional review recently which came to the firm conclusion that there's a problem with the 800s treble, sufficient to mar its claim of best dynamic phone. I know many dispute this, but there've been enough complains to suggest there is a sting lurking somewhere.

post #1375 of 36851


     Quote:

Originally Posted by pp312 View Post

Is the 800 much brighter than the 650? I read a very thoughtful, considered professional review recently which came to the firm conclusion that there's a problem with the 800s treble, sufficient to mar its claim of best dynamic phone. I know many dispute this, but there've been enough complains to suggest there is a sting lurking somewhere.


IMO, the treble of the HD800's will suffer the same controversy as the 'veil' of the HD650.  I think the variation in impressions are based on taste, the gear being used and one's personal music preferences.  There's no doubt that the HD800's are brighter than the HD650's, but in a similar way as the HD600's.  I've listened to other bright cans, i.e., the K702's and my Grado's, especially, the SR325is.  The HD800's aren't like those from my experience when using my own gear.  These others can be harsh when paired with many recordings.  I've yet to hear harshness from the HD800's.... a genuine marvel from where I sit.

 

I'm one for a comfortable listening experience.  The HD650's are the clear winners in this regard and for this reason, they're truly special from where I sit.  But then, when I put on the HD800's and lock into their own signature, the experience is very damning as well.  Brighter, but somehow, not harsh.  More headstage and a better quality bass, i.e., more effortless, more natural and tighter;  not more in quantity and I find this fascinating.  There's a lot more detail to hear and this is not simply so because the highs are louder.  I don't think it's that simple, but instead down to driver technology improvements. 

 

But then, with all that I've said about the HD800's, when I switch back to the HD650's and lock into their signature, I can see why some would actually prefer them to the HD800's. :)  It's not always about detail retrieval.  I find the HD800's to be the superior can, no doubt, but for overall enjoyment, I'm finding it difficult to determine which I prefer.  Going from the HD800's to the HD650's requires more acclimatization than going from the HD650's to the HD800's.  On this basis I tend to believe that my natural preference rests more with the HD800's.  Can't be sure yet though and do wonder why I need to declare a preference to myself or anyone else.  


Edited by aimlink - 5/28/10 at 7:25am
post #1376 of 36851

Thanks to those who have commented on my interest. WHile I know I'm really going to be

aggravating the wife with these new gear thoughts, yet I have to know. So the general feeling is

the amp I have though not the very sexy WA6, is totally fine, but my DAC is not.

Ok. Sure I don't need the very sexy WA6? I feel like I might. Maybe I'm just experiencing

the, "I want new gear bug" as I have had this same set up for many years. 

post #1377 of 36851

From my experience, get new pair of headphones i.e. HD800 ! I think Senn will release the high end version of HD650, HD850 maybe 

post #1378 of 36851
Originally Posted by mckinetic


Thanks to those who have commented on my interest. WHile I know I'm really going to be

aggravating the wife with these new gear thoughts, yet I have to know. So the general feeling is

the amp I have though not the very sexy WA6, is totally fine, but my DAC is not.

Ok. Sure I don't need the very sexy WA6? I feel like I might. Maybe I'm just experiencing

the, "I want new gear bug" as I have had this same set up for many years.



sell your micro amp,add some money and get wa6.i had micro amp and paired it with hd650 and i loved the sound,but then again this is headfi and i wanted to experiance the better:) . the wa6 is a clear upgrade from micro amp,much better soundstage(the micro amp soundstage is constricted),softer tighter bass,more air and detail retreival and smoothness that is incredible when paired with hd650.



the only thing that i think micro amp does better than wa6 is that the bass hits harder and heavier.but i much prefer the bass of the wa6 because of tightness and the nicer softer feel.

if you decide on wa6,dont forget sophia princess because it is night and day in comparison to the rubbish stock tube.

i sold all my other headphones in favour of hd650,technically k701 and d5000 are indeed better,but musically and when you are resting on a lecliner for example nothing can beat hd650 imo.

i could have got the hd800 but i decided to get jh13 because many headfiers say it is better than hd800 even out of portable source(dont be sad aimlink,lol:) )
post #1379 of 36851

@ midoo

 

I was looking to purchase a Woo Audio 6 in the future. But do you think it's a worthwhile upgrade from my current Woo Audio 3 stock?

 

Would the Rectifier tube (Sophia Princess) be the only thing needed when purchasing the wa6  or would i also have to change the front 2 driver tubes as well?

post #1380 of 36851

Quote:
Originally Posted by midoo1990 View Post


i could have got the hd800 but i decided to get jh13 because many headfiers say it is better than hd800 even out of portable source(dont be sad aimlink,lol:) )


How can I be sad if you're happy with where you're going.  I hope you enjoy the JH13's and that they live up to your expectations.  

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