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Sennheiser HD650 Impressions Thread - Page 766

post #11476 of 24456

Matt is right. After seven months of use, the HD650 engages super mode and everything all of a sudden sounds way more awesome than before.

post #11477 of 24456

exactly at 7 months? :)

post #11478 of 24456
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post

 

The differences in pairs has been measured too. Not between the black and silver versions. Then again could be variations in pad use, but is that really enough to alter a measurement?

 

My last two pairs had a mid-bass hump and were dark. Not this one. Weird.

 

Oh and by mid-bass hump I mean that it sticks out like a sore thumb. This one seems really smooth and flat with slightly reduced treble. Not dark. This one also has no majorly recessed upper mids. Pretty clear too, but not crystal clear. It's soundstage is actually larger and more accurate than my HD-600/580.

 

There's never been a headphone in existence that didn't vary from one to the next. Some vary more than others. Driver QC and driver matching are very important and have a huge effect on the consistency of a company's offerings but no one is totally exempt from it regardless of how much they invest into minimizing it. You seem quite sensitive to small changes in sound signature so I don't doubt you've experienced differences from one to the next.

 

Electrostatic and planar magnetic drivers may have less variance than dynamic drivers, I'm not sure, but I doubt it.

 

On the topic of the Sennheiser veil... the problem with that argument is that people present it as a technical failure of the 650 (or it is read as such) when it is obviously simply a matter of subjective taste. If you are used to, and prefer, bright headphones, you will likely experience a "veil" in the upper frequencies of the 650. This is to be expected. Its not that the 650 has a problem... its that you don't prefer the sound of the 650. To each his own. (This isn't directed at any of you, just at the "veil" issue in general).


Edited by devhen - 3/22/13 at 9:55am
post #11479 of 24456
Quote:
Originally Posted by devhen View Post

 

There's never been a headphone in existence that didn't vary from one to the next. Some vary more than others. Driver QC and driver matching are very important and have a huge effect on the consistency of a company's offerings but no one is totally exempt from it regardless of how much they invest into minimizing it. You seem quite sensitive to small changes in sound signature so I don't doubt you've experienced differences from one to the next.

 

Electrostatic and planar magnetic drivers may have less variance than dynamic drivers, I'm not sure, but I doubt it.

 

On the topic of the Sennheiser veil... the problem with that argument is that people present it as a technical failure of the 650 (or it is read as such) when it is obviously simply a matter of subjective taste. If you are used to, and prefer, bright headphones, you will likely experience a "veil" in the upper frequencies of the 650. This is to be expected. Its not that the 650 has a problem... its that you don't prefer the sound of the 650. To each his own. (This isn't directed at any of you, just at the "veil" issue in general).

 

You're totally right, but what I was trying to point out is that companies like Beyerdynamic and Sennheiser could make VERY measurable differences without telling anyone. Quite large changes in the sound signature. The differences i've heard were not subtle but enough to make me like or dislike the HD-650. Yeah i'm that picky, but not everyone will be. For example I like the HD-580, but not so much the HD-600 (but it's OK). I also prefer the Q701 to the K702.

 

With  my last two HD-650s I even tried two different amps and DACs. Actually maybe 3. The only one I really liked it with was pretty much the setup that was the most neutral with not much warmth.

 

If you check Purrin's website there is a graph that shows exactly what mine sounds like. There's a clear difference between the two. One seems to have better low bass extension and maybe more upper mids.  It also sounds like MLE's and MattTCGs pairs possibly sound like mine and don't have any large mid-bass hump. The last two I had had this really annoying mid-bass hump that kind of caused this fog over the entire sound. Well just lots of bass bleed and it wasn't my source or amp. I actually didn't realize how bad it was until I EQed down the mid-bass. The one I have now is actually crystal clear and not dark at all. Not too laid-back at all.

 

I remember also having a DT-770 600 ohm and it was the most neutral headphone I ever heard in my life(!!). I was expecting some major V-shaped sound signature. MLE got a pair and his was a bass monster! Mine was just so neutral it was almost boring. I would say this is a pretty massive manufacturing variation! normal_smile%20.gif

 

My guess is that all the latest HD-650s don't have any sort of large mid-bass hump and are not dark at all. My HD-600 actually has less treble and more of a mid-bass hump. Weird, I know! What's funny is that my HD-650 has more treble than the K702 65th Anniversary Edition. Actually it's pretty similar in quantity.

 

It's funny how my HD-650 is about the flattest headphone I own. It does have slightly rolled off treble, but no big deal. It seems it's coloration is that it makes everything sound good biggrin.gif

 

EDIT:

 

I actually think the veil on the HD-600 (only) is caused by not enough treble and too much mid and upper bass. This is why the HD-580 I have is less veiled than the HD-600. If you reduce the bass of the HD-600 and increase the treble to neutral levels it's so much clearer. Basically the HD-580 to me sounds like an HD-600 with less bass (more neutral bass) and more treble. More upper mids too. All due to the HD-580 grill. Not a huge difference between them. The HD-580 sounds like a more energetic HD-600, but it's really not. Same drivers of course.

 

I don't expect anyone to agree, but this is what I heard when modding the HD-600 and listening to the HD-580.


Edited by tdockweiler - 3/22/13 at 10:36am
post #11480 of 24456

Yeah the DT770/600 is known to vary substantially from one to the next. Last year I bought two within 2 weeks of one another and one was quite sibilant and bass shy while the other wasn't sibilant at all and was pretty dang bassy. I kept the bassy one, which I like a lot, and gave the less bassy one to my dad. I actually just posted about this very topic in the "show us your head-fi station" thread:

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by devhen View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tus-Chan View Post

Beyer doesn't exactly have the highest QC when it comes to driver matching.

 

Question: How is there so much variance in driver frequency response that driver matching is a necessity?

 

The answer to *why* there is variance would probably need to be answered by an engineer who understands the manufacturing processes and materials used in dynamic drivers. All I know is that variance does exist, and *always* exists, to some degree or another. No manufacturer or driver model is immune to it.

 

I wouldn't say Beyer has poor driver matching. I've never experienced mismatched drivers in a Beyer headphone and haven't heard any reports of that. Its driver *variance* that is quite common in some Beyers, meaning the variance exists between two heaphones of the same model, as opposed to two drivers within the same headphone.

 

In the example of the 770/880/990 lines, which share the same basic driver, there seems to be more reports of variances in the 770s and 990s than there is with the 880s, and the 770s seem to have the most variance of the three, leading me to believe that Beyer saves the more consistent drivers for the 880 while the 770 (the cheapest of the three) gets the most inconsistent drivers. The 880 is the most neutral of the three and is marketed heavily to studios and professional applications so it would make sense that Beyer would consider consistency to be most important in that model.

 

However, despite the variance among some Beyers, a single Beyer headphone will still be fitted with two matched drivers that have matching sound signatures.


Edited by devhen - 3/22/13 at 10:38am
post #11481 of 24456

Just received my hd650 and in sonic bliss nowatsmile.gif. Sounds awesome but a bit congested and grainy .Hope they will open up after some time of use.


Edited by gtb123 - 3/23/13 at 10:10am
post #11482 of 24456

^^ I took mine about 7 months to finally open to where I think that they'll stay. Thing is...I thought that they sounded really good already. Now I'm just tickled with the sound signature. I guess that I could have burned them in over many nights. Oh well, no worries. 

post #11483 of 24456

Man, I really don't know how anyone could think the HD600 has more bass than the HD650. That just seems ludicrous to me. I know about driver variation and all that jazz, but I can't honestly believe that any revision of the HD600 is bassier than any revision of the HD650, variation included.

post #11484 of 24456
Quote:
Originally Posted by yokken View Post

Man, I really don't know how anyone could think the HD600 has more bass than the HD650. That just seems ludicrous to me. I know about driver variation and all that jazz, but I can't honestly believe that any revision of the HD600 is bassier than any revision of the HD650, variation included.


Yeah, it's weird right? I'm thinking the same thing. I think the problem with my HD-600 is that it's mid-bass isn't really as well controlled. This crazy HD-650 has some of the most accurate and well controlled bass i've heard. Makes no sense. No mid-bass emphasis at all! My HD-650 actually sounds exactly like a clearer and more refined HD-580. I know that's hard to believe. About the same amount of bass and treble!! Soundstage is also better compared to the HD-600. That'll be hard for almost anyone to believe.

 

Actually what surprised me is that this HD-650 clearly has more low bass presence than my HD-600/580. Not that much more, but it's nice.

 

If you've only heard an HD-650 that has a mid-bass emphasis that sticks out like a sore thumb (like my last 2 pairs), then you'd be surprised what this pair sounds like. It also not VERY warm, but just about perfect. Can't even call it dark but pretty close. Not sure what Sennheiser did and all my gear is mostly the same.

 

I swear i've seen some graphs that shows the HD-600 having more mid-bass than the HD-650, but not sure where I saw that. I know my HD-580 has less bass than my HD-600 too. Just very slightly!

 

Check out this graph:

http://www.geocities.jp/mister_terch/SENNHEISERHD580.html

 

Probably not accurate, but who knows..

(comparison to HD-650)

 

Have to say after having two HD-650s previously, I'm surprised how much I like this HD-650 purchased in late 2012 (NEW).


Edited by tdockweiler - 3/23/13 at 4:14pm
post #11485 of 24456
After your ordeal with the Annie pads... your ears scare me.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 3/23/13 at 10:52pm
post #11486 of 24456
I've had the same feeling regarding the 650s. Mine are also about 7 months old (bought from new and partnered with a Graham Slee Solo SRG). I came back to them recently after a couple of weeks off listening and did some extended listening and they really seemed to have opened up. Much airier in general. I am a fan of the sennheiser sound as a whole and have heard what other have called 'veil' ( I actually rather like not having my ears destroyed by treble) but I find it much less noticeable now.
Things can only get better... smily_headphones1.gif
post #11487 of 24456

I didnt know that HD600 was knowed for having more bass presence and bigger soundstage than the HD650. Isnt it the other way round ? 

And the HD650 has definitley more midbass thump than HD600, your HD650 just may have some HD600 drivers in it ? Haha just kidding. 

post #11488 of 24456
Quote:
Originally Posted by brymuse View Post

I've had the same feeling regarding the 650s. Mine are also about 7 months old (bought from new and partnered with a Graham Slee Solo SRG). I came back to them recently after a couple of weeks off listening and did some extended listening and they really seemed to have opened up. Much airier in general. I am a fan of the sennheiser sound as a whole and have heard what other have called 'veil' ( I actually rather like not having my ears destroyed by treble) but I find it much less noticeable now.
Things can only get better... smily_headphones1.gif

 

How can you draw any conclusions about the differences in sound "pre-post" after not using them for a couple of weeks?? The only headphone you can relate to is the one you used during those two weeks. This is just a crazy statement to me. It is like saying: "If you let your HD650 be for 7 months their sound will open up". It doesn't make any sense. 

post #11489 of 24456
Quote:
Originally Posted by putente View Post

Which IEM do you guys think is the closest sounding to the HD650? Like having an HD650 in a IEM shell (as close as possible, obviously)? So far, from all the IEMs I've tried, the closest for me seems to be the Yamaha EPH-100...

popcorn.gif

I'm listening to the Westone 4R from my iPhone at the moment. With the right tips and fit you get a similar balance as the HD650. There's a nice amount of mid bass for some toe tapping. The upper registers are quite smooth, detailed, yet subdued enough to not fatigue after extended use. The HD650 has a much wider stage and the W4R isn't as rich and textured through the mids. I run my HD650 balanced though, so that's to be expected. The W4R does have a good coherent presentation. It kinda reminds me of the LCD-2 under-driven straight from my MBP.
post #11490 of 24456
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post


Yeah, it's weird right? I'm thinking the same thing. I think the problem with my HD-600 is that it's mid-bass isn't really as well controlled. This crazy HD-650 has some of the most accurate and well controlled bass i've heard. Makes no sense. No mid-bass emphasis at all! My HD-650 actually sounds exactly like a clearer and more refined HD-580. I know that's hard to believe. About the same amount of bass and treble!! Soundstage is also better compared to the HD-600. That'll be hard for almost anyone to believe.

 

Actually what surprised me is that this HD-650 clearly has more low bass presence than my HD-600/580. Not that much more, but it's nice.

 

If you've only heard an HD-650 that has a mid-bass emphasis that sticks out like a sore thumb (like my last 2 pairs), then you'd be surprised what this pair sounds like. It also not VERY warm, but just about perfect. Can't even call it dark but pretty close. Not sure what Sennheiser did and all my gear is mostly the same.

 

I swear i've seen some graphs that shows the HD-600 having more mid-bass than the HD-650, but not sure where I saw that. I know my HD-580 has less bass than my HD-600 too. Just very slightly!

 

Check out this graph:

http://www.geocities.jp/mister_terch/SENNHEISERHD580.html

 

Probably not accurate, but who knows..

(comparison to HD-650)

 

Have to say after having two HD-650s previously, I'm surprised how much I like this HD-650 purchased in late 2012 (NEW).

 

 

This is not hard to believe at all. Mostly because mine sound EXACTLY the same way. We bought ours at about the same time and I think that we've talked about this before. I suspect some unannounced driver change but who knows. I have NO veil, NO mid bass hump and a surprising amount of sub bass punch. 

 

That adds up to make this one sweet hp. And one that I would never sell. biggrin.gif

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