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Sennheiser HD650 Impressions Thread - Page 742

post #11116 of 18307
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post

Hated the HRT MSII for the HD-650. It's nice if you want the HD-650 even warmer and with even less treble and more forward sounding upper mids. I'll pass! The ODAC made every headphone I have even smoother sounding than with the MSII. Weird. Soundstage on the MSII is also not good IMO.

Odd.  My experience is pretty different from yours.  An ex-coworker of mine (who is also a head-fier) came by and we compared gear, including my MSII versus his ODAC.  We used both the HD650 and the HE-500 and had the O2, Bottlehead Crack+Speedball and Burson Soloist amps as options.  In the end, we decided that the two were very hard to distinguish.  He was questioning if there was a difference... I felt that the MSII had a very very slight improvement in soundstage and musicality, but so slight that it wouldn't generally be noticeable.  Basically, we felt them on par with each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzybaffy View Post

Also, I should mention just for the sake of the guy who originally asked the question, I heard there is a big difference between the HRT Music Streamer II and the Music Streamer II+, and I'm seeing that in their prices on Amazon, too (~$150 to ~$350). Not saying I don't believe in your review of the MS II, but I just wanted to let the guy there's a difference between the two. 

At the recent SF Bay Area meetup, someone was selling their MSII+ for a reasonable price and I did a quick A/B versus the MSII with my gear and easily noticed a difference, so I bought it on the spot.  When I got home, I did some more comparisons.  While the general presentation is similar, the plus unit makes big improvements on soundstage, clarity and detail.  Brought it to work to let a couple of guys who recently bought Schiit Modis to compare, one who has a great-sounding old STAX setup on his desk (that he lucked out and got a great deal on ebay) and was wondering if this whole DAC thing was snake oil.  He's not wondering anymore.

post #11117 of 18307

Quote:
Originally Posted by scolaiw View Post

 

A magni/modi stack is a great budget option that will cost you a lot less than that and so is an O2/ODAC stack. 

I would personally just like to point out that the lady that resides within your avatar is wasting a perfectly good pair of headphones. ;)


The Magni/Modi really seems like it's a steal at its price range, but I'm just afraid that it won't drive the 650's the way they were supposed to (yes, I'm aware that I am asking for a bit too much here, lol).

post #11118 of 18307
Quote:
Originally Posted by gelomeister View Post


The Magni/Modi really seems like it's a steal at its price range, but I'm just afraid that it won't drive the 650's the way they were supposed to (yes, I'm aware that I am asking for a bit too much here, lol).

 

260mW at 300 Ohms isn't too shabby although I'd personally go for a better amp. However; the modi is an absolute steal and has worked wonders paired with my Woo WA6. The ODAC is also a fantastic DAC option to go for. In my opinion, you do not need to be spending thousands or even hundreds of dollars on a DAC. Especially since the HD650s are so unbelievably forgiving, you can't go wrong! beyersmile.png

post #11119 of 18307
Quote:
Originally Posted by scolaiw View Post
Especially since the HD650s are so unbelievably forgiving, you can't go wrong! beyersmile.png

 

I love how they're so good out of the box and still scale amazingly with better gear! I've heard them through a Pan Am, a Lyr and a WA6... all I can say is wow.

post #11120 of 18307
Quote:
Originally Posted by gelomeister View Post

 

I love how they're so good out of the box and still scale amazingly with better gear! I've heard them through a Pan Am, a Lyr and a WA6... all I can say is wow.

 

Agreed. I've listened to many technically and objectively better headphones and setups and I will always love my lush, beautiful, graceful, warm and romantic HD650s. In a sentimental way, they are like my high school sweetheart and first real love.

post #11121 of 18307
Quote:
Originally Posted by gelomeister View Post


The Magni/Modi really seems like it's a steal at its price range, but I'm just afraid that it won't drive the 650's the way they were supposed to (yes, I'm aware that I am asking for a bit too much here, lol).


Why? Because it's $99? It drives the HD-650 with ease and actually sounds great. I do have the ODAC and not the Modi though. I know volume doesn't mean much, but the 650 with my Magni only needs to be at the 10:30pm position on the volume control.

 

The Magni has tons of power IMO. I'll probably never own a headphone that needs to be past 50% volume. Not even my K400 requires it.

 

The HD-650 will improve with a better amp, but saying it "won't drive the 650's the way they were supposed to" is nonsense I think.

post #11122 of 18307
Quote:
Originally Posted by uzi View Post

Odd.  My experience is pretty different from yours.  An ex-coworker of mine (who is also a head-fier) came by and we compared gear, including my MSII versus his ODAC.  We used both the HD650 and the HE-500 and had the O2, Bottlehead Crack+Speedball and Burson Soloist amps as options.  In the end, we decided that the two were very hard to distinguish.  He was questioning if there was a difference... I felt that the MSII had a very very slight improvement in soundstage and musicality, but so slight that it wouldn't generally be noticeable.  Basically, we felt them on par with each other.

 


I had the MSII and not the MSII+ though. Maybe I will prefer the MSII+ to the ODAC? I'll never know. I also once tried the MSII on my E9 and it's almost like there was too much coloration coming from the amp and almost as if I couldn't really hear the full benefit of the HRT MSII. That was one of the weirdest things i've experienced.

 

Sometimes it's hard to "hear" what's connected to my E9. With the Magni and Micro amp it's stupid easy. I'm guessing the E9 isn't as transparent. It's just so much harder to hear the difference between sources with that thing. Maybe some other amps are like that as well. I do find the Micro and Magni very revealing and transparent.

 

The MSII should sound good for almost everyone and I think maybe i'm too picky. It just sounds kind of colored, but probably not as bad as I think it is.

post #11123 of 18307

I recently went crazy in a moment of weakness ( i am NOT a cable guy) and bought some Moon Audio Black Dragon V2 for my HD 650's.  I've had them for 3 years now and I had run over the stock cable with my computer chair a couple of times.  redface.gif    A new cable was in order.   I must say the Moon cable has given the 650, to my ears a shot in the arm.   The senns just sound stronger and fuller now and my Lyr's volume control is down a couple of notches!   10 o'clock instead of 11:30.  Improved efficiency maybe?  Don't have the technical tongue to explain the improvement but it's definitely there.  Maybe some one here can elaborate?   The 650's are the same only more so.  blink.gif   I have no affiliation will Moon Audio except as a customer I might ad.   Lets just say I 'appreciate' my 650's more with the new cable.    Did I just say that?  Time for some breakfast.  
 

post #11124 of 18307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor34 View Post

I recently went crazy in a moment of weakness ( i am NOT a cable guy) and bought some Moon Audio Black Dragon V2 for my HD 650's.  I've had them for 3 years now and I had run over the stock cable with my computer chair a couple of times.  redface.gif    A new cable was in order.   I must say the Moon cable has given the 650, to my ears a shot in the arm.   The senns just sound stronger and fuller now and my Lyr's volume control is down a couple of notches!   10 o'clock instead of 11:30.  Improved efficiency maybe?  Don't have the technical tongue to explain the improvement but it's definitely there.  Maybe some one here can elaborate?   The 650's are the same only more so.  blink.gif   I have no affiliation will Moon Audio except as a customer I might ad.   Lets just say I 'appreciate' my 650's more with the new cable.    Did I just say that?  Time for some breakfast.  
 

Maybe your old cable was so worn-out that it conducted the signals poorly?

post #11125 of 18307
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post

I had the MSII and not the MSII+ though. Maybe I will prefer the MSII+ to the ODAC? I'll never know. I also once tried the MSII on my E9 and it's almost like there was too much coloration coming from the amp and almost as if I couldn't really hear the full benefit of the HRT MSII. That was one of the weirdest things i've experienced.

 

The MSII should sound good for almost everyone and I think maybe i'm too picky. It just sounds kind of colored, but probably not as bad as I think it is.

I was using the MSII with the HD650 via the Crack+Speedball and Soloist for some time and pretty happy with it... and I'm sure I'd be equally happy with an ODAC and a Modi (and I mean that literally as I know the MSII and ODAC are close and figure the Modi probably is as well).  They're all fine units and sound good at their price point... but there's a clear difference with the MSII+... it's significant to my ears.  Heck, to my wife's as well... I A/Bed them for her and she quickly agreed... but she's got good ears (and perfect pitch) so it didn't take much effort.

 

So now I'm definitely upgraded and figuring my DAC quest is just beginning.  I'm definitely happier with the MSII+, but wondering where the point of diminishing returns is.  Is a Bifrost better? By how much?  What about other units?  Yep, my wallet should brace for impact... but fortunately I'm not in a hurry, and especially not now that I have the MSII+.

post #11126 of 18307
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

Maybe your old cable was so worn-out that it conducted the signals poorly?


Could be, but except for the occasional run over on the rug, I did take good care of the cable thought and it was only barely three years old.   I have to admit that I got a new cable for my HE 500's as well.  Couldn't stand the stock cable, but didn't notice any sonic improvements just better cable management. 

I guess I was close to becoming a "cable guy" but I have regained control.   wink_face.gif

post #11127 of 18307
Quote:
Originally Posted by uzi View Post

I was using the MSII with the HD650 via the Crack+Speedball and Soloist for some time and pretty happy with it... and I'm sure I'd be equally happy with an ODAC and a Modi (and I mean that literally as I know the MSII and ODAC are close and figure the Modi probably is as well).  They're all fine units and sound good at their price point... but there's a clear difference with the MSII+... it's significant to my ears.  Heck, to my wife's as well... I A/Bed them for her and she quickly agreed... but she's got good ears (and perfect pitch) so it didn't take much effort.

 

So now I'm definitely upgraded and figuring my DAC quest is just beginning.  I'm definitely happier with the MSII+, but wondering where the point of diminishing returns is.  Is a Bifrost better? By how much?  What about other units?  Yep, my wallet should brace for impact... but fortunately I'm not in a hurry, and especially not now that I have the MSII+.

 

All this MSII+ talk is making my wallet hand twitch. I have owned the MSII for about a year, and I've been really happy with it (I heard a vast improvement with my K702's, it breathed new life into those things). Now I'm wondering if I too will hear a noticeable difference in my setup with the MSII+ ...time to his the FS section I guess...

 

or should I skip it and get the MS Pro and be done with it? Perhaps that's the point of diminishing returns? Has anyone listed to the Pro?

post #11128 of 18307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor34 View Post

The senns just sound stronger and fuller now and my Lyr's volume control is down a couple of notches!   10 o'clock instead of 11:30. 
 

 

Whoa... you must like your music loud. My HD650s normally sit around 9-10 o'clock, rarely higher... I don't even get to 11:30 with my 600ohm DT880s...

post #11129 of 18307
Quote:
Originally Posted by yokken View Post

 

Whoa... you must like your music loud. My HD650s normally sit around 9-10 o'clock, rarely higher... I don't even get to 11:30 with my 600ohm DT880s...

 

Are you two using the same source?  I know my CD player puts out a significantly stronger signal than my Bifrost.

 

Bifrost maximum output = 2 V RMS vs CD player at 4-5 V RMS.


Edited by jazzerdave - 3/3/13 at 12:36pm
post #11130 of 18307

Yea... definitely a believer in DAC's as well. I just don't see how they don't make a difference.

 

Sound is created by the headphone moving its drivers, which is caused by the electric signal going into the headphone. You adjust the electric signal, it changes the way the headphone moves its drivers, and so the sound changes. That's pretty much what all the components in amps and DACs are meant to do. 

 

This reminds me of the dumb argument I had with the O2... nevermind... I won't go there. 

 

I hear a difference between DACs now, and I heard a difference between DACs with my dad's gear from over TEN YEARS AGO. He had fairly high-end gear (for the time, I think); it was one of those high-end Sony speakers (SS M7; they are cheap now, but this was ten years ago, so they were quite good at the time) and CD players. And the CD player absolutely killed one of the other cheaper Japanese CD players he had. 

 

And I was using my Sony MDR-CD3000 and Grado RS-1's to compare the two. So my headphones were no slouch at the time, either. 


Edited by fuzzybaffy - 3/3/13 at 12:58pm
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