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Sennheiser HD650 Impressions Thread - Page 720

post #10786 of 19109
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post

If the HD-650 is too dark for you as it is, why pair it with a warm amp? The Lyr is fairly warm right?
I don't really understand why "warm" would be synonymous with "dark".
post #10787 of 19109
Quote:
Originally Posted by muxamed View Post


I don't really understand why "warm" would be synonymous with "dark".

 

Based on my experience with the DJ100/HD-650 and other warm headphones, warm amps and DACs generally make the problem worse if someone wanted to make a headphone brighter. I hate the HD-650 when used with sources that are too warm.

 

It's about as bad as pairing a DT-990 or K701 with a very "cold and analytical" amp. Not always...

 

I guess it has more to do with preferences.Some amp/dac combinations don't seem to sound like they'd be a good match for a specific headphone, but it actually isn't too bad. Everyone told me the ODAC would be terrible with the Q701, but this was definitely not true.


Edited by tdockweiler - 2/15/13 at 2:25pm
post #10788 of 19109

Well... if anyone is looking for a DAC that will complement the HD-650 well, they should check out the M-Stage DAC (the standalone one, not the cheap $30 one that comes with the M-Stage amp USB version). The amp has two filters, "sharp" and "slow".

 

The "slow" filter, I think fits the HD-650 really, really well. It nicely fills out the bottom end, and should assuage any complaints of the HD-650 not having enough bass. It of course won't bring out the bass to the point that it's comparable to a closed headphone. But, it rounds out the bass just a tad, to make it really satisfying.

 

The only downside to the "slow" filter is that it can at times, seem a tad stuffy, without enough air.

 

For that extra bit of air and clarity, "sharp" is the right filter.

 

It almost seems as if they made the M-Stage DAC specifically to complement the HD-650.

 

Unfortunately I don't have any other decent DACs to compare it to. Only the DAC on my motherboard onboard audio, which... is no contest. The M-Stage DAC exhibits virtually no noise even when my amp (the M-Stage amp) is set at the highest setting. And the music just feels more solid and more put together.


Edited by fuzzybaffy - 2/15/13 at 3:00pm
post #10789 of 19109
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post

 

If the HD-650 is too dark for you as it is, why pair it with a warm amp? The Lyr is fairly warm right?

 

The Magni and ODAC are perfect for the HD-650. People say they're bright, but they're really not. Despite that they still do sound best with warm headphones.

 

The only way I'd suggest a new cable is making one yourself. Try a low capacitance wire such as Belden 1192A (dirt cheap) or similar. There's a good reason people use silver with the HD-650, but I don't go there..

I prefer stock cable for the HD-650. My belief is that the capacitance of the wire changes the tone of a headphone slightly, but not enough to be measurable. It's kind of like warm/cold amps that measure the same and have very good measurements too.

Thanks a lot for your input. Don't get me wrong, I really think the warmth is amazing even on tube amps. You do have a good point of going for a brighter amp like the magni. Initially I was worried it might get too bright which is why I asked how the Lyr handles the HD650. Seems like a mix where it retains some of the tubes warmth but not so far in as other tube amps. Of course I'm looking at other options. If certain amps like the Magni isn't too bright I would definitely give that some consideration. To begin with though, this is just all thinking for now. Not buying any new equipment until I feel comfortable doing so :P 

post #10790 of 19109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohnoitztotoro View Post

Thanks a lot for your input. Don't get me wrong, I really think the warmth is amazing even on tube amps. You do have a good point of going for a brighter amp like the magni. Initially I was worried it might get too bright which is why I asked how the Lyr handles the HD650. Seems like a mix where it retains some of the tubes warmth but not so far in as other tube amps. Of course I'm looking at other options. If certain amps like the Magni isn't too bright I would definitely give that some consideration. To begin with though, this is just all thinking for now. Not buying any new equipment until I feel comfortable doing so :P 

 

Nope, the Magni isn't too bright. It was out of the box, but now it's really smooth. I won't explain why or how. It even pairs well with my ODAC.

The Magni also measures flat and there's some graph on another site I saw.

 

It's interesting how all these ultra transparent amps such as the Magni and O2 are always labeled as "bright" or "cold and analytical". biggrin.gif How come?

 

I think my Ipod Touch 2G reminds me of the Magni (weird comparison I know), but I'm often fooled that the Ipod Touch 2G sounds brighter but measures flat. I swear I saw a graph of the Ipod Touch 2G out there with very slightly elevated treble, but it's probably not audible.

 

I can't detect any warmth at all on my Magni, but that's a good thing I guess (not for everyone).

 

I also think the ODAC is very good for the HD-650..

 

I think when I get the Lyr i'll either love it or hate it. I don't know if i'd like the HD-650 any warmer than it already is. If the soundstage is much larger than it might bother me less. When my DJ100 gets warmer it sounds more congested. Same with this HD-650 unfortunately. Probably not with the Lyr!

 

I probably have no clue what the Lyr even sounds like. Probably just some slight warmth added I'd imagine. I haven't done much research into it because then i'd probably buy it.

post #10791 of 19109
Quote:
Originally Posted by joebobbilly View Post

IMHO cables only give subtle changes... you're better off saving cash for better amp (unless you can get a used one very cheap... mine was a steal).  Asgard 2 is out... and from what Jason is describing it'll have a nice clean sound that will likely suit your needs.
 

+1...Amp then cables...Though I have a couple of cable reviews you can read in the sig line. 650's scale up with better amps and sources. I know mine work really well with my Decware CSP2+ amp. The Bottlehead Crack is another great HD650 pairing.

post #10792 of 19109
Quote:
Originally Posted by longbowbbs View Post

+1...Amp then cables...Though I have a couple of cable reviews you can read in the sig line. 650's scale up with better amps and sources. I know mine work really well with my Decware CSP2+ amp. The Bottlehead Crack is another great HD650 pairing.

Thanks I can definitely understand the amp before cable mentality.  I can get both components without my money going utterly to hell for it but I'd still like to save :P Most likely I'll end up buying them when I see a good deal on it but eventually I will look into upgrading at least the amp. Although my current one isn't bad at all (little dot mkII) but I am very curious about certain ones like the Lyr or even the other Schiits and Bottlehead. 

post #10793 of 19109
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post

 

Nope, the Magni isn't too bright. It was out of the box, but now it's really smooth. I won't explain why or how. It even pairs well with my ODAC.

The Magni also measures flat and there's some graph on another site I saw.

 

It's interesting how all these ultra transparent amps such as the Magni and O2 are always labeled as "bright" or "cold and analytical". biggrin.gif How come?

 

I think my Ipod Touch 2G reminds me of the Magni (weird comparison I know), but I'm often fooled that the Ipod Touch 2G sounds brighter but measures flat. I swear I saw a graph of the Ipod Touch 2G out there with very slightly elevated treble, but it's probably not audible.

 

I can't detect any warmth at all on my Magni, but that's a good thing I guess (not for everyone).

 

I also think the ODAC is very good for the HD-650..

 

I think when I get the Lyr i'll either love it or hate it. I don't know if i'd like the HD-650 any warmer than it already is. If the soundstage is much larger than it might bother me less. When my DJ100 gets warmer it sounds more congested. Same with this HD-650 unfortunately. Probably not with the Lyr!

 

I probably have no clue what the Lyr even sounds like. Probably just some slight warmth added I'd imagine. I haven't done much research into it because then i'd probably buy it.

 

The hd650 on the lyr is simply stunning. You will have a moment when you fire it up. How could you not? 

post #10794 of 19109
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTCG View Post

 

The hd650 on the lyr is simply stunning. You will have a moment when you fire it up. How could you not? 

I read an review that you made a while back between the HE-400 vs HD650. When you mentioned the combination of the Lyr and HD650, your enthusiasm on the pairing really made me want to desperately hear it myself. D: 

 

Don't know what you do for a living but perhaps you should be a salesman haha

post #10795 of 19109
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTCG View Post

 

The hd650 on the lyr is simply stunning. You will have a moment when you fire it up. How could you not? 

Just how amazing stunning is it, Matt. tongue_smile.gif

post #10796 of 19109

The Lyr's signature is dictated by the tubes. Assumptions about how well it will match with a headphone are useless without addressing the tubes employed.

 

Also, extra "warmth" does not curtail the HD650 IME. If anything it adds zest and makes it a more energetic headphone. Guitars are projected with extra crunch and bite, percussion with more distinct hits and vocals with extra body and definition. Mids are where the good stuff resides and a strength of the HD650. Highlighting that is not a bad thing IMO.

post #10797 of 19109
Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post

The Lyr's signature is dictated by the tubes. Assumptions about how well it will match with a headphone are useless without addressing the tubes employed.

 

Also, extra "warmth" does not curtail the HD650 IME. If anything it adds zest and makes it a more energetic headphone. Guitars are projected with extra crunch and bite, percussion with more distinct hits and vocals with extra body and definition. Mids are where the good stuff resides and a strength of the HD650. Highlighting that is not a bad thing IMO.

 

I admit that this is true. But...it's not a day and night fundamental change in the signature of the amp as some might think. The lyr is damn good on the stock tubes...GE's for me. I was able to really dial in and eventually bulls eye audio ecstasy with the Amperex Orange Globes. 

 

I'm really not trying to "sell" anyone on anything here. My observations and impressions are simply meant to share the enjoyment that I got from a particular setup. But I would never presume that the way that I hear any headphone or amp will be the same for someone else or that they would even enjoy it. It's all about the enjoyment of music for me. Yeah, I dig the gear and the tech behind it, but at the end of the day all I want is to sit in my leather chair, fire up some Chris Cornell or Diana Krall, turn up the dial and get lost in the music. 

post #10798 of 19109
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTCG View Post

 

 fire up some Chris Cornell or Diana Krall, turn up the dial and get lost in the music. 

 

 

 

post #10799 of 19109
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTCG View Post

 

The hd650 on the lyr is simply stunning. You will have a moment when you fire it up. How could you not? 

 

I recently got a chance to try the Lyr with the HD650 and apart from how I think the Lyr has broken my HD650s, I wasn't massively impressed, planar magnetics sound like a better match with the Lyr.

post #10800 of 19109

How did the Lyr break your headphones? I'll also say that heated up with a pair of 1966 Bugle Boys in my rig, the Lyr beats out the Burson Soloist with the HD-650.


Edited by swmtnbiker - 2/16/13 at 9:58am
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