[RushNerd]

So they don't have the hefty burn in that the denons have? It they open up fairly fast, it won't wait so long to fully judge them.

 

[xzobinx]

No you need a lot of burn-in time, at least 650 hours 

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So they don't have the hefty burn in that the denons have? It they open up fairly fast, it won't wait so long to fully judge them.

 

[TwoEars]

They do sound great straight out of the box, and you can judge them after about 10h or so I'd say. There is some longer time burn in as well but nothing to drastic.

 

[xzobinx]

I have something to confess . Lately, I have tried to replace our beloved hd 650 with some hi-end options but after a while I think I gave up on dynamic hi-end. I find T1 and T5p to be so underwhelming, hd 800, lcd 2/3, th900 all of them offer more resolution but either the tone in case of hd 800 or comfort issues with the audeze ruled them out of my list. I found the th900 to be an interesting can in its own right but its fun didn't wow me enough. The last one I have hope for is the he-6 as I haven't had a chance to drive it from an ideal speaker tab since through my v200 it feels so underpowered. I think  I should jump into the estat realm to see what their magic is but I will keep my hd 650 rig since the tuning of it just right for my ears. I can clearly see their flaw compare to the flag-ship but in the end music is what matter as only the senn made me fall in love. 

 

[IEMCrazy]

Quote:

 
Are you sure about this.  On my B22 and M^3 the sub bass are great - I mean really great for hip-hop.

 

 
It's not that it's bad for those genres, but it's not ideal.  Look at the HD650 FR chart....below 40Hz it goes off a cliff.  Sure it should have tons of midbass flare which works in most cases....on most recordings I never missed that sub-bass, but you get a 30Hz synth bass and the frequency is virtually missing.  True story, there was an album, electronic (can't comment on hip-hop...not my thing beyond knowing the kind of frequency ranges used and that the same kinds of electronic synth bases are often chosen.) I'd listened to it on my big speaker rig and it was fantastic.  I couldn't wait to listen to it again.  Next time it was on HD650 and I found it painfully underwhelming.  It seemed flat.  Finally I realized a good chunk of all the sound was below 40Hz....HD650 practically rolled it under the noise floor....notes were virtually absent. 
 
That's a worst case scenereo.  Even most electronic doesn't rely on the sub-bass so extensively, I've encountered no other album where that happened.  But it just goes to show how severe the sub-bass rolloff is when you do hit those notes.  You can EQ it up, but it tends to distort.  The diaphragm size just isn't made for sub-frequency displacement like that.  That's why Denons have those huge (for dynamics) diaphragms.
 
I love HD650, but I won't deny their only true limitation either

  The bigger question is just how much music actually uses anything below 40Hz outside a handful of sub-harmonics.  Hint: many albums hit a brick wall at 40Hz and contain no data below that.  It doesn't matter if the speaker can play it, it's not on the recording.  Studios know that few people have subwoofers that can do sub-40Hz without wheezing, so few allow the recording to utilize it.  Electronica labels, some hip-hop, and most frou-frou jazz & classical labels allow it.  Virtually no mainstream labels do.  It's already been condensed above 40Hz by the time you get it, so the limitation of HD650 isn't even an issue there.  It's been eye opening watching the analyzer to see just how little high and low information most albums allow. 
 
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I seriously cannot wait to try out Juno Reactor on these once they arrive, I have a feeling they will excel with Juno's dramatic vocals and acoustic instruments from around the world.
 
I will be getting them brand new for my 30 day trail though, can someone tell me how much burn in time I should expect to do before they loosen up?? I would almost hate using them brand new and not liking it.

 
Don't worry about burn-in.  Pad burn-in is real on HD650....the sound will change as the pads form to your head which they will do in a few weeks usage.   Diaphragm burn-in does exist, but it doesn't audibly affect anything as severely as Denon or AKG. I changed out my 6-year old diaphragms with new ones a few months ago after they'd been damaged by an amp malfunction.  Same broken in pads.  The drivers were a bit stiff for the first 4-8 hours maybe, but after that, they sounded like my trusty ancient drivers again.
 
Quote:

So they don't have the hefty burn in that the denons have? It they open up fairly fast, it won't wait so long to fully judge them.

 
Nope, they're not AKGs.  Or Denons.  Or shudder....planars....nothing burns in like a planar....
 
Quote:

I have something to confess . Lately, I have tried to replace our beloved hd 650 with some hi-end options but after a while I think I gave up on dynamic hi-end. I find T1 and T5p to be so underwhelming, hd 800, lcd 2/3, th900 all of them offer more resolution but either the tone in case of hd 800 or comfort issues with the audeze ruled them out of my list. I found the th900 to be an interesting can in its own right but its fun didn't wow me enough. The last one I have hope for is the he-6 as I haven't had a chance to drive it from an ideal speaker tab since through my v200 it feels so underpowered. I think  I should jump into the estat realm to see what their magic is but I will keep my hd 650 rig since the tuning of it just right for my ears. I can clearly see their flaw compare to the flag-ship but in the end music is what matter as only the senn made me fall in love. 

 
HD650 can simply not be replaced.  I've jumped on that HE-6 treadmill you speak of.  I love the HE-6 treadmill.  It can be enjoyable like HD650.  It can even consume a lot of head-time from HD650.  But it still can't replace HD650.  I can happily live with both...

  I find that it's replaced HD650 as my first pick many times, but it hasn't fully replaced my trusty old HD650s. 

 

[preproman]

Quote:

 
HD650 can simply not be replaced.  I've jumped on that HE-6 treadmill you speak of.  I love the HE-6 treadmill.  It can be enjoyable like HD650.  It can even consume a lot of head-time from HD650.  But it still can't replace HD650.  I can happily live with both...

  I find that it's replaced HD650 as my first pick many times, but it hasn't fully replaced my trusty old HD650s. 

 
 
OOOOO - But if you could only have one???  

 

[IEMCrazy]

Quote:

 
 
OOOOO - But if you could only have one???  

 
My brain would unhinge itself from two conflicting counter-imperatives, and I would become comatose.

 
If I had to pick only one....it would probably be HE-6....presuming I could keep my EQ with it to make it laid back when I want it to be.  Otherwise I'd have to pick based on if I wanted to keep the one better for prolonged listening or the one better to reproduce a concert one CD at a time

 

[TwoEars]

Quote:

I have something to confess . Lately, I have tried to replace our beloved hd 650 with some hi-end options but after a while I think I gave up on dynamic hi-end. I find T1 and T5p to be so underwhelming, hd 800, lcd 2/3, th900 all of them offer more resolution but either the tone in case of hd 800 or comfort issues with the audeze ruled them out of my list. I found the th900 to be an interesting can in its own right but its fun didn't wow me enough. The last one I have hope for is the he-6 as I haven't had a chance to drive it from an ideal speaker tab since through my v200 it feels so underpowered. I think  I should jump into the estat realm to see what their magic is but I will keep my hd 650 rig since the tuning of it just right for my ears. I can clearly see their flaw compare to the flag-ship but in the end music is what matter as only the senn made me fall in love. 

I hear you.
 
I've come to the same conclusion as well.
 
The thing about the HD650 that makes is magical to me is that it is detailed... but not too analytical.
 
The HD800 and HifiMans are very, very good. In fact they are probably better headphones than the HD650. No wait - they are better headphones.
 
But the thing is that they are SO good that they tend to pick apart the music into tiny, tiny molecules.
 
Something that the artist just intended to be a "wall of sound" now becomes a bling there, a bleep there, a hiss there.
 
It can all become very fatiguing when I'm not in the mood for analytical listening.
 
Which is when I return to my trusty HD650s and just enjoy the music.
 
Sit back, relax, let your worries disappear - isn't that what music is all about?

 

[caracara08]

Great posts

 

[RushNerd]

Quote:

Don't worry about burn-in.  Pad burn-in is real on HD650....the sound will change as the pads form to your head which they will do in a few weeks usage.   Diaphragm burn-in does exist, but it doesn't audibly affect anything as severely as Denon or AKG. I changed out my 6-year old diaphragms with new ones a few months ago after they'd been damaged by an amp malfunction.  Same broken in pads.  The drivers were a bit stiff for the first 4-8 hours maybe, but after that, they sounded like my trusty ancient drivers again.
 
Nope, they're not AKGs.  Or Denons.  Or shudder....planars....nothing burns in like a planar....

You are extremely helpful. I won't give burn in too much thought then, thank god for that.
 
Also HOPEFULLY my Mad dog fostex's are shipping at the end of the month, what did you mean nothing burns in like a planar? I assume burn-in is a factor on them, but I have heard they don't need much.
 
Also one more thing, I could probably figure this out one they arrive but...how the hell do the 650s work? It seems like they made a small sheet of acoustic silk that covers most of the cup area? I assume it's designed to be one huge speaker. I've never figured it out, they sure as hell aren't the same headphone tech as my denons.

 

[longbowbbs]

Quote:

 
Which is when I return to my trusty HD650s and just enjoy the music.
 
Sit back, relax, let your worries disappear - isn't that what music is all about?

 
Exactly!  So...Hi end or Mid-Fi?   I say Hi End because it is what I keep returning to. Price is not the benchmark.....

 

[Sonic Defender]

After more than a year of reading about the 650s I just had to have a set, and I am very glad I did. They are quite special and certainly going to be keepers for quite sometime. However, as electronic music has been brought into this thread I have say the DT 880 really does outperform the 650 with this genre. I recently purchased a new headphone amp and due to the low voltage output from the RCA output on my CD player the 880s couldn't be driven quite well enough for my taste. So while I waited for some XLR cables, (which I had made by head-fi member Zombie_X and they are fantastic) I was using the 650s constantly. I have been in a huge phase of electronic music listening as of late, and at first I was using just the 650s, and they of course were really, really good. Then knowing the 880's reputation for being stellar performers with electronica and related genres like dubstep, dnb, glitch hop ... I started using them. Sorry HD650 lovers, which includes myself, hands down the 880s were the more suited sound signature, subjective bias of course.
 
However with more accoustic music it is hard to take the 650s off your head. Steely Dan, Fleetwood Mac, Supertramp, Dire Starits etc, they all just love the 650s. Anyway, I am going to paste a youtube video link below of a track from Phutureprimitive's album Kinetik. My brother was just over here tonight, and he is an old school audio buff as well, but even he agreed this Phutureprimitive album is absolutely astounding to listen to with either speakers, or headphones. You can go to the artists web site and for $10 get the whole album in Flac, and the server (Bandcamp) is quite quick. Anyway, here is the link, I'm sure you'll enjoy. If you want to feed your 650s something that will just make them shine and grin, this album is the ticket folks, I kid you not. Unless you just don't like electronica of course.
 

 

[RushNerd]

Quote:

After more than a year of reading about the 650s I just had to have a set, and I am very glad I did. They are quite special and certainly going to be keepers for quite sometime. However, as electronic music has been brought into this thread I have say the DT 880 really does outperform the 650 with this genre. I recently purchased a new headphone amp and due to the low voltage output from the RCA output on my CD player the 880s couldn't be driven quite well enough for my taste. So while I waited for some XLR cables, (which I had made by head-fi member Zombie_X and they are fantastic) I was using the 650s constantly. I have been in a huge phase of electronic music listening as of late, and at first I was using just the 650s, and they of course were really, really good. Then knowing the 880's reputation for being stellar performers with electronica and related genres like dubstep, dnb, glitch hop ... I started using them. Sorry HD650 lovers, which includes myself, hands down the 880s were the more suited sound signature, subjective bias of course.
 
However with more accoustic music it is hard to take the 650s off your head. Steely Dan, Fleetwood Mac, Supertramp, Dire Starits etc, they all just love the 650s. Anyway, I am going to paste a youtube video link below of a track from Phutureprimitive's album Kinetik. My brother was just over here tonight, and he is an old school audio buff as well, but even he agreed this Phutureprimitive album is absolutely astounding to listen to with either speakers, or headphones. You can go to the artists web site and for $10 get the whole album in Flac, and the server (Bandcamp) is quite quick. Anyway, here is the link, I'm sure you'll enjoy. If you want to feed your 650s something that will just make them shine and grin, this album is the ticket folks, I kid you not. Unless you just don't like electronica of course.

I have a feeling it will be this way for me too with my D5000's. They are so damn good with synthetic music. But I am more than absolutely curious how the 650's will handle it, they might just make it more interesting! I'll have to research that band you posted and give that album a try here soon.

 

[longbowbbs]

Sonic Defender, thanks for the Phutureprimitive suggestion. Very cool. I DL'd the FLAC and am enjoying it on the HD25's now with the Dragonfly DAC. (The HD650's are at home....Too much to travel with) The HD25's have more bass punch anyway.
 
Sweet..

 

[alv4426]

Que?
Quote:

The HD25's have more bass punch anyway.