Sennheiser HD650 Appreciation Thread!! - Page 683

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpetrillo 

I have a pair of the older "dark screened " version. They don't sound veiled to me at all. They sound detailed and extended but without harshness of brighter phones. I should mention that i bought mine used. They came with cryo'd silver cables by Revelation Audio Labs and I haven't listened to the stock cables. I haven't heard the newer version i am just pointing out that there are some people that don't see the old version as veiled.

It could be possible that you meet fuzzy's earlier point of having your 650's seeming

dark in comparison to other cans, ala white screen 650's.

This is indeed where ignorance is bliss.

I'm not sure about a veil with the 650's But I took the foam material from in front of the drivers off and the sound to me really opened up to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpetrillo 


I am not really judging my 650's by other headphones. I am not as into headphones as some of you. I am judging them against my years of listening to high-end audio and "my" preferences in audio. I was only saying that "to my ear" the 650's are not veiled YMMV.
I will say that your assumption that any opinion that doesn't agree with yours is "ignorance" sounds a little arrogant to me.

Of course you're not. 

And to address your last snippy comment. I've already said not all units were affected 

and to my ears there was a veil.

As fuzzy pointed out it's an open ended discussion. 

And all I've asked is for those who've heard both to share their thoughts.

Not take the approach of I hear no veil, so there is no veil. In all possibility.

Hell, in strict comparison the 650 (white screen) is veiled compared to the LCD's.

So how you can ascertain or not be open to the possibility that you would

find 'em a little veiled is beyond me.

Oh, and the "ignorance is bliss" comment is a figure of speech. Considering you haven't heard the white screen 650's so you don't know what they sound like. Thus, you don't know how you would react to hearing 'em. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpetrillo 

My original post was in answer to your statement,

"Now if you have heard a dark screened version and don't feel they're veiled, I'd be surprised, but who actually knows".

I thought this was an invitation for anyone who felt this way to join the conversation, I guess I was wrong.

I will say one more thing and then bow out of this discussion because I am no expert on headphones.

You can measure components, you can measure sound, you can even measure a persons hearing but you can't measure "how a person hears". Hearing is a perception formed by the brain and everyone's brain is different.

+1

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpetrillo 

My original post was in answer to your statement,

"Now if you have heard a dark screened version and don't feel they're veiled, I'd be surprised, but who actually knows".

I thought this was an invitation for anyone who felt this way to join the conversation, I guess I was wrong.

I will say one more thing and then bow out of this discussion because I am no expert on headphones.

You can measure components, you can measure sound, you can even measure a persons hearing but you can't measure "how a person hears". Hearing is a perception formed by the brain and everyone's brain is different.

I don't see how I negatively challenged your perception. I simply posed the question

that perhaps if you did hear the white screen 650's that maybe you'd change your mind

that the black screens are veiled.

And you took my comment  "ignorance is bliss" out of context and implied I was being condescending.

You can easily, say, "dude, did you DBT those 2 650's, are you sure you weren't susceptible

to placebo or other factors"

I thought it was promoting discussion. As I had said to my ears there is a veil,

on every pair (no, who knows). If other's would disagree about the veil, I'd be surprised.

Did I say they'd be wrong or I'd be right? 

Nope.

Sorry if I came off as condescending or arrogant. That wasn't my intention. 

Nor do I feel I displayed such actions.

How would you guys characterize "veiled" though? That the treble is overshadowed by the midrange? 

Easy there guys... he did mention using a silver cable... without listening to stock... those tend to brighten the sound (IMHO).... so it's quite possible he hears no "veil".
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by skypop 

I'm not sure about a veil with the 650's But I took the foam material from in front of the drivers off and the sound to me really opened up to me.

+1

I don't hear any veil with my sliver driver HD650. I don't recall hearing any with the older, black driver version either. HD650 may not be the most detailed sounding headphone out there and I suppose one could say that it veiled compared to HD800 or SR009. But for a headphone in its price range, HD650 has excellent resolution and an exceptionally balanced frequency response in my opinion.

What was amusing to me is that the HD-580 I have is less veiled to me than my HD-600 (same drivers). To get my HD-600 to sound less veiled I could limit the amount of air it got with HD-580 grills or a piece of foam on the back of the driver "vents". No it still gets air.

Since this HD-650 is pretty much close to being flat IMO, it doesn't sound veiled. The last two I had did..same gear.

There's a technical reason why a silver cable or cold/analytical/transparent amp might help reduce the veil. Use a silver cable, silver interconnect and a Magni/Modi/O2/ODAC and it'll probably sound closer to the Q701(!) in terms of warmth and how thin/thick the mids are. This HD-650 isn't that much warmer than my Q701.

What you can do is put an HD-600 cable on the HD-650 (don't buy it silly!) and suddenly hear a lot more clarity, detail etc etc, but yet it lost some of it's warmth and you're just fooled!

Something is missing when you use the HD-600 cable with the HD-650. I refuse to use a low capacitance wire with the HD-650 because it will lose what I like about it. No, I didn't say it's sound signature will change or it will measure differently. I now think Sennheiser knows what they're doing with the HD-650 cable. It's amusing when you solder that thing to an HD-598. Not suggested...wire is wire i guess..

When you put a piece of foam behind the driver on the HD-600, the bass reduces to neutral levels and it suddenly sounds much clearer. Less veiled. Closer to how my HD-650 sounds (the balanced one). Removing the grills on the HD-600 has similar results. Try it. Again, the 580 always sounded less veiled. I was shocked that removing the grills sounds so similar as to putting foam behind the driver. Impossible!

This is probably all nonsense to you, but that's OK.

There's a good reason people like silver or silver plated copper on the HD-650. Too bad the mids aren't as full sounding. It's interesting how when you lost warmth and some bass, your brain is fooled into thinking you have more treble and a larger soundstage. ALO SXC did this for me on the Q701 and why I use stock or no crappy low capacitance wire (on brighter headphones).

Long story short..I think it's due to too much mid/upper bass without enough treble. Shoot me if you want. Don't ask me how a cable makes it less veiled (cheap one) without it having a measurable difference. I have no idea..it's kind of like the difference between the Clip+ and Ipod Touch 2G. Both measure flat, but sound much different.

EDIT: the foam is Creatology foam. It's harder, so basically you're blocking air, but it still gets some from the sides.

As I'm sure you're aware there was a thread on changstar covering this. Many people reported the black screens being more veiled than the silver.

And I believe Marv took measurements to show off a few different pair. IIRC a particular pair had a good difference in the frequency response of the treble.

(which is where the starkest differences were apparent in my experience).

Like I said it's not every pair, in fact, it's hard to really know what is the exact cause. There's a good amount of anecdotes that cover the issue,

and then there's some measurements to try and help shine some light on the differences.

Still find it pretty quirky considering the likes of the LCD-3 veil was quite "documented" where as there's so much mixed emotions on

the 650's.

I thought it would be fun to discuss, but it didn't quite go over as smoothly as hoped. Oh well, sorry for being somewhat offtopic. I'm sure

some people might have taken it as me crapping all over the 650 when this is an appreciation thread. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by paradoxper 

 

I thought it would be fun to discuss, but it didn't quite go over as smoothly as hoped. Oh well, sorry for being somewhat offtopic. I'm sure

some people might have taken it as me crapping all over the 650 when this is an appreciation thread. 

It was good to change the subject from the YouTube review